It would be a most difficult position to be in... to be in your 50's and have only a relatively small number of credits towards a full pension at this point in time...Your concerns are valid ones....True.. no one wants to to take a cut..Consider how much more frustration you would feel if you had already worked 30 yrs or more and then took a cut at a time in life you wouldn't have any options or hope to make it back up again?.. ..We, the Unions, are not really " the mirror of social security"... Social Security is paid for by every worker through deductions in their wages.. without respect to Union membership or not..each new worker in the work force pays in...With Unions...only Union Members pay in..and yes it's sad to note that declining membership means that more are, and will be, receiving rather than contributing especially as we go forward without solving the fundamental issue of contributing employers..... Every ones situation is different...but not all that much different in the regard that we all consider the Pension an important part of Retirement...You are right about the answer...it lies in bringing in more contributors...that part of the equation needs more serious discussion on how to achieve that...and yes I already know that it is an uphill battle to say the least..but not impossible.....
Yellow | Retirement....2015
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It would be a most difficult position to be in... to be in your 50's and have only a relatively small number of credits towards a full pension at this point in time...Your concerns are valid ones....True.. no one wants to to take a cut..Consider how much more frustration you would feel if you had already worked 30 yrs or more and then took a cut at a time in life you wouldn't have any options or hope to make it back up again?.. ..We, the Unions, are not really " the mirror of social security"... Social Security is paid for by every worker through deductions in their wages.. without respect to Union membership or not..each new worker in the work force pays in...With Unions...only Union Members pay in..and yes it's sad to note that declining membership means that more are, and will be, receiving rather than contributing especially as we go forward without solving the fundamental issue of contributing employers..... Every ones situation is different...but not all that much different in the regard that we all consider the Pension an important part of Retirement...You are right about the answer...it lies in bringing in more contributors...that part of the equation needs more serious discussion on how to achieve that...and yes I already know that it is an uphill battle to say the least..but not impossible.....
I'll as again,just exactly WHAT did you do on your WATCH besides eat the cherry and suck the whipped cream off the top of the banana split that was provided for you by the real teamsters who fought and died so you could have it so good? What did you do to make the teamsters A better place for the next generation other than retire? Nothing was promised to you either,even after you started drawing A pension.
Good post blade! I too would like to have seen plan B. If only we would have pushed for that to happen.
The Problem with the Multi-Employer Pensions did not just suddenly become manifest at this " time in the industry". The underlying conditions that have eroded the strength of the Pension funds have been going on for a long time....with each closure of a participating employer it shifted larger and larger "burdens" of cost to the remaining employers...It shouldn't have been "rocket science" to realize what the eventual outcome would be.... The Union Leadership, at the top levels especially, dropped the ball, as it were, on retaining employers and bringing in new participants to the plan...If the Pension were to hit the wall, as you put it, it would have consequences for all members..retired or not.....You seem to be, by your remarks, rather callous towards those that are still working and contributing to the fund that pays the benefit your receiving... I do hope that your correct that the PBGC will not be needing to take over the Pension obligations any time soon..or ever for that mattter...but for a different reason than you... reductions in future retirees benefits...I would hope for a better outcome than that.... Congratulations on 33 years of hard work and you have without a doubt earned your pension... It is my hope that all those coming up will get what they have worked for also.... That is where the focus needs to be....Take care of those coming up and that will by default take care of those that have already arrived... !
Where exactly did I say I wanted to see anyone take A screwing? Some people who are retired on here are sympathetic to guy's who've had to take cuts. My point is the ones who are retired with no sympathy that go on and on about how great things were for them and they in turn did nothing to make the union better,just take what they could and who cares about the next guy. Pilot, why don't you tell me why A young person would want to go to work at YRC instead of A conway or A Fed Ex then? It's certainly not wages both companies pay more than YRC. It's not the equipment,about all we have is junk. If you want to drive your not gonna get to do that here until you've been here 10 years or more. Other than the pension that WAS being paid in on us the only possible reason would be H&W,we still get ours paid,but for how much longer. No the only real reason was the pension,and that's all but gone.
When I started driving way back in the last century pension was the farthest thing from my mind. I probably couldn't even spell pension correctly at the time. The money was decent, I was young and couldn't care about H&W either. I just liked to drive and getting paid for doing it was a plus.
PS - Had 2-1/2 years as a feeder driver at UPS way back. At that time you needed 10 years to be vested in the pension. I have nothing to show for that time pension wise. Who knew?
With respect to a "Plan B".... The vote regarding the concessions was not the same as a typical contract vote, where it may be a prudent form of negotiating, to turn down an offer in order to perhaps get something better.... The Economy and the Company's financial situation were both spiraling out of control...if you believe this to have been some sort of fabrication to get you to vote against your best interests is a bit of a stretch..consider how many lenders took losses in order to keep YRC afloat.Why would they have been willing to take losses and even continue to loan money to YRC?..Perhaps in hope of recovering something as opposed to losing it all in a liquidation....Bankers would not have been involved if this were mere "ordinary" contract wrangling between the Management and Union...It is pretty certain that a "Plan B" would have been Bankruptcy.. "If only we would have pushed for that to happen." Yes indeed....if only..perhaps then you'd be on the J.B Hunt, or other such, forum saying "If only we wouldn't have pushed for that to happen"....
This part of your post could be construed incorrectly then if that is not what you meant...I however, did not say that you said that you wanted anyone to "take a screwing"... I just asked IF that was your point, based on the quote highlighted above.... Believe me when I say that I share your concerns regarding cuts in pension, wages and other benefits...In that regard I'm on your side.....It is unfortunate that some on the boards may "flaunt", for lack of a better term, their years in the "heyday" as it were, without empathy for those that struggle now with diminished hope of the same retirement they have...i.e full pension.. You say they say they didn't make the Union better and just took...How could they have made the Union "better" in such a way that it would have prevented the current situation?...and by the same token what are you and others currently working doing to make the Union better? it is a two way question.. The whole notion of not caring for the next guy is nothing that is just a Union problem..that callous attitude is pervasive throughout the industry without regard for Union vs Non-Union...and in greater society as whole..." Pilot, why don't you tell me why A young person would want to go to work at YRC instead of A conway or A Fed Ex then?" Over the years that I have worked at Roadway then YRC, there have been many drivers that came to work for us that had been employed by Conway... and Overnite and others. I've never seen any of them go back to where they came from......Regarding pay.....yes it's true that some non-union carriers pay comparable wages...but most have a much longer progression to full pay...and without a Union there is a less of a chance to reach that point....The Conways and fed ex's have nothing to prevent them from arbitrarily terminating your employment.Unlike YRC (or other Union carrier) Seniority issues are stronger with Union Carriers... enforced by Contract...not the whim of management...greater protection regarding safety complaints and violations....The pension..even in the current condition it is in still has a hope for survival....Pensions at non-union carriers are subject to the whim of the Company as to if they will continue.....more and more are just going the 401K route....Health and welfare...still being paid as you mention...of course there are more advantages to Union Membership than can be addressed in a short reply such as this...but I'm sure you get my drift....If people look at the real differences they would not have to ask....but as I've mention before...many...to many people today have been mis-informed regarding the importance and contributions of the Unions in America...Thanks for taking time to read my post and respond....I do sympathize with those that are currently working hard each and everyday....
Perhaps bankruptcy would have been the best route to go,then everyone would have known for A fact the situation plus we also might have had A little more flexibility with our lenders from the start and not had to give back as much. Sometimes you have to show people with actions Pilot to get them to understand. I've read on here dozens of times how people just say screw'em ie "the co." They believe that we got shafted on this whole deal from the start. If we would have had organized bankruptcy early,the workers would have known the co. meant it. I believe people would have worked A little harder and done things A little better if that would have happened. But when workers see big wages still being paid out,plus bonus's to the management it's sorta hard to take their word for much.
Good post Pilot! You asked so I'll answer. When I started several trucklines were still union,in fact I don't know who was'nt. The biggest thing would have been the double breasting at CF should have been stopped as soon as it started. This is not to blame anyone,but I've always tried to have respect for senior men at our barn. This is where I believe they should have stepped up. Not to reduce my role,but to lead as the example. As for me personally,I've helped on the overnite organization program although that did'nt go as well as planned.I blame our union for A big part of that. When driving I've always tried to explain the good points of the union to the nonunion drivers in hopes that they would pass that along to others they work with.
azzman, to many when the MOUs were proposed all the evidence pointed to bankruptcy liquidation if not accepted. Whether you personally believed that is irrelevant. When are we going to accept the facts of today? Picking at ***** does NOTHING to promote healing. Dwelling on the past will only aid in fulfilling the future of little or no pensions. There is one thing that EACH AND EVERY Teamster at the YRCW companies can do to help avoid that future. Work like your future depends on it, IT DOES!
wild thing
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When I started the great pumpkin was 100% union just think if the Members[which should be in charge] would not of let Fitz let them start S national all carries JB,Wearner,usx,and on and on,Same with Fex Ex ground[RPS]That was to be union when roadway started it and they left them out in the cold.If all of those would be union no one would be worried about there pensions.But all those so called union leaders let them out now see what we got.Also all I hear today is about how THEY lost 15% the meesters never talk about how much they lost in there pension .It's all about how much they have to spend today not what they lost for the future.All they care about is what toys they have today and not what they need to retire on in the future..How many show up at union meetings.Maybe 30 out of 4,000.In my early days members would be standing outside the union hall because it was that full.Now all i hear is I'm busy. well what is more important your job or mowing the lawn?
This comes from a 40 year union member.Remember it's all me me me screw my brother i'm more important.
This comes from a 40 year union member.Remember it's all me me me screw my brother i'm more important.
I try not to think of the past and strive to crawl forward. I do have a problem though with the current situation of harassment, excessive usage of cartage, and abuse of 4 hour casuals. Are we not "part owners" of YRCF? Did we not all "help" to save the company? Perhaps contract abuse is only tested at my barn! Bring all laid-off members back BEFORE utilizing any outside labor.
i totally agree hanalad but because of all those shady areas in those MOU . you know the parts we asked about at the meetings and were told either (we dont know or that will never happen).
well they did know and it has happened and the answers are always the same .... YOU VOTED FOR IT.
ps I DIDNT VOTE FOR ANY OF IT
well they did know and it has happened and the answers are always the same .... YOU VOTED FOR IT.
ps I DIDNT VOTE FOR ANY OF IT
Joe the plumber
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They probably saw it as you saving your job. What ever good deed you do is just doing your job. You are always expected to do your job..but they abuse you anyway. They own you
I didn't vote for any of the concessions either.
I didn't appreciate the intimidation tactics YRC and the IBT were using against us.
Now, 4 years later, after closure of my 2nd barn, and witnessing first hand, the current contractual abuse at my 3rd barn, I'm glad I voted NO.
Also, Joe, I always try to give a fair day of work, for a fair day of pay.
(Pay is questionable).
Only because I believe not a single one of us current "working" employees would enjoy searching for employment elsewhere. Including management!
I didn't appreciate the intimidation tactics YRC and the IBT were using against us.
Now, 4 years later, after closure of my 2nd barn, and witnessing first hand, the current contractual abuse at my 3rd barn, I'm glad I voted NO.
Also, Joe, I always try to give a fair day of work, for a fair day of pay.
(Pay is questionable).
Only because I believe not a single one of us current "working" employees would enjoy searching for employment elsewhere. Including management!
The odds are still VERY long that YRCF will survive. But it is a certainty that the "I'm getting my 15% back" attitude will doom us to failure.
It is very hard to keep a positive attitude when some supervisors use harassment as a tool. That also applies to CLEAR contract violations.
IMO while the upper most echelon of management has made FEW sacrifices, MOST employees have made large sacrifices to keep this company going.
To those employees (whether your supervisory, sales, secretarial, or union) who have made sacrifices, thank you! Your dedication is in EVERYONE'S best interest.
D
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It's one thing to get abused at work under regular circumstances (not that it's right) but it's another to give as much as you have and still get abused. The least they could do is show some appreciation for your sacrifices and cut you a few breaks even.
