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runawaytrain said:
If bankruptcy is in our future I wonder which way they would go....Chapter 7 or Chapter 13......Chapter 13 would mean reorganization and the retention of our jobs to my understanding....Chapter 7 would mean liquidation and the loss of our jobs to my understanding. Whatever happens....Do you guys think we will make it through all of 2013?
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It would be chapter 7 period. We ain't no Generous Motors or Hostess Twinkies. Think about it runawaytrain. GM in 2009 when they filed bankrupcy had 35,000 employees and 70% of those were union employees. On top of that, they sold 22% of all vehicles sold in the USA. Vitran today has around 4000 employees and none of them are union and Vitran has 2.5% market share compared to GM's 20% today and Chrysler's 11.5% today. Both of them have around 70% union employment. Both GM and Chrysler are here today because the Fed's bailed out the union jobs ( remember Obama is a unionist) and the fact they controllled so many jobs. Have a nice day !

Vitan is so itsy teeny that Obama has never heard of us and there is no hope.
 
Popswasnatlman said:
It would be chapter 7 period. We ain't no Generous Motors or Hostess Twinkies. Think about it runawaytrain. GM in 2009 when they filed bankrupcy had 35,000 employees and 70% of those were union employees. On top of that, they sold 22% of all vehicles sold in the USA. Vitran today has around 4000 employees and none of them are union and Vitran has 2.5% market share compared to GM's 20% today and Chrysler's 11.5% today. Both of them have around 70% union employment. Both GM and Chrysler are here today because the Fed's bailed out the union jobs ( remember Obama is a unionist) and the fact they controllled so many jobs. Have a nice day !

Vitan is so itsy teeny that Obama has never heard of us and there is no hope.
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I believe you are right....In your opinion what month in 2013 do you think Vitran will go belly up?
 
Popswasnatlman said:
It would be chapter 7 period. We ain't no Generous Motors or Hostess Twinkies. Think about it runawaytrain. GM in 2009 when they filed bankrupcy had 35,000 employees and 70% of those were union employees. On top of that, they sold 22% of all vehicles sold in the USA. Vitran today has around 4000 employees and none of them are union and Vitran has 2.5% market share compared to GM's 20% today and Chrysler's 11.5% today. Both of them have around 70% union employment. Both GM and Chrysler are here today because the Fed's bailed out the union jobs ( remember Obama is a unionist) and the fact they controllled so many jobs. Have a nice day !

Vitan is so itsy teeny that Obama has never heard of us and there is no hope.
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noway my friend
 
Talks about Vitran in the investment community label us as a "predominantly non union company" I did not know we had a union side (Canada maybe?)
 
I have to admit it seemed a bit extreme...but I wasn't in the mood to be confrontational. H.E. you said you didn't think we would survive all of 2013, but you also thought there would be some sort of concession's first. Well with that being said that would give us most of 2013...Do you think we could see 2014 under Chapter 13 protection? My gut feeling is that would seal our fate because it would scare customer's away. And in the overall big picture how to you see our future playing out? And If you had to guess, which month and year do you think we will finally be put out of our misery? And how will Canada save face? N.W. what time frame are you looking at and how to you think the plug will be pulled?
 
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thinking something big in Q2 (april, may, june) after Q1 stats come out. who knows, Q4 may surprise us and it was a loss but not as big as Q3. i think Q1 2013 will be the deciding factor due to CK would have a year in of his 18 month to turn things around, and that is when i look for vacation and pto being cut back. I do not think they will touch wages, being what the economy is, that alone would make more jump ship than anything else in my mind right now
 
runawaytrain said:
I have to admit it seemed a bit extreme...but I wasn't in the mood to be confrontational. H.E. you said you didn't think we would survive all of 2013, but you also thought there would be some sort of concession's first. Well with that being said that would give us most of 2013...Do you think we could see 2014 under Chapter 13 protection? My gut feeling is that would seal our fate because it would scare customer's away. And in the overall big picture how to you see our future playing out? And If you had to guess, which month and year do you think we will finally be put out of our misery? And how will Canada save face? N.W. what time frame are you looking at and how to you think the plug will be pulled?
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4th Q loss rumor coming out of IND is 18-22 million, will be reported early Feb. There will be no chapter 13, company could never survive a chapter 13 and to go chapter 13 you have to show the courts a strong business case that it would work, which it wont. Concessions will happen with salaried folks but it wont save enough cash. 7th month of 2013.
 
I have been reading this whole thread from the top. @had enough @train @no wanted. all 3 of you have been here a long time or at least a while, the writing is on the wall, it has been ever since 2010, the top "brains" of the outfit got greedy, buying companies up when the O.R. was above 100. swallow your years and jump. you and I both know it doesnt end well with vitran. Its like that actor in the movie that was great thru the whole 3 hours of the movie, but in the end you know he is going to die, you wish and hope he doesnt but we all know he gets shot in the head. the big wigs secured that future when they bought companies that were in worse condition then ours. Chris, Milan, etc. I dont like starting at 1500 everyday instead of 0630. But i feel job security when I put on my new uniform in the afternoon
 
they recieve the entire loan by the end of 1st qtr, payoff prior loan back in dec 2011, canadian properties will be back in the safe zone for them then whatever happens to the u.s. side happens. they will go back to canada with their tail between their legs, like dhl and daimler did after a taste of the u.s. market.
 
had enough said:
they recieve the entire loan by the end of 1st qtr, payoff prior loan back in dec 2011, canadian properties will be back in the safe zone for them then whatever happens to the u.s. side happens. they will go back to canada with their tail between their legs, like dhl and daimler did after a taste of the u.s. market.
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Back to Canada with their tail between their legs.....Yep.....That's about right....Too Funny....LOL
 
$outh$side $tre$$ said:
Has anyone heard whats with the delay on vac forms?
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The difference between the North and South is night and day...In early Dec. the TM wanted us to select our vacation days...We had the forms......But because everyone said it was too early and they didn't know which weeks they wanted yet, because of various reasons...from the wife didn't know about hers to the kids with certain sport activities...So he put it on the back burner until all the cry babies(mostly senior guys) can make up their mind. The South runs by a whole different set of rules than the North. FYI
 
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$outh$side $tre$$ said:
I have been reading this whole thread from the top. @had enough @train @no wanted. all 3 of you have been here a long time or at least a while, the writing is on the wall, it has been ever since 2010, the top "brains" of the outfit got greedy, buying companies up when the O.R. was above 100. swallow your years and jump. you and I both know it doesnt end well with vitran. Its like that actor in the movie that was great thru the whole 3 hours of the movie, but in the end you know he is going to die, you wish and hope he doesnt but we all know he gets shot in the head. the big wigs secured that future when they bought companies that were in worse condition then ours. Chris, Milan, etc. I dont like starting at 1500 everyday instead of 0630. But i feel job security when I put on my new uniform in the afternoon
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$$ You know If I was a young man I would be right there with you...The start time is not the problem for me...Its working the dock..At UPS freight thats the way you start out most the time...Thats the way you pay your dues at UPSF....Im close to retirement and not a spring chicken anymore...I will start over at an LTL company that doesn't require dock work. There are alot in the South..I will get a late start time....But I can live with that.
 
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at this company you have been given the templete on everything not to do for running a company. hind sight is twenty twenty but the def. or one of them. of insanity is making the same mistakes over and over again and expecting different results. so not to make fun of your conceren for whats happening we are working for the insane. it is hard when you have put as much time in this company as we all have or most have . and you see it going down and you still have hope that it will change. but nothing here is normal no info no game plan no nothing. the ship is going down and they gave us buckets with hole's in to bail water. the life rafts are full with those who made sure they would be taken care of and the rest of us will be in the water till we are picked up by a passing ship. it is a sad thing to watch. but it happens. you teach your kids not to bite off more than they can chew and the v bit off to much to fast chasing the all mighty dollar now they will pay with the same thing that they craved.the problems this company made for itself have come back to bite it in the ass. it is a sign of the times. ingnore the issues and pay the price. all of this could have been avoided a long time ago but for what ever reason it was not. makes you wonder was it ego greed for whatever was the reason for doing this alot of peoples lives are going to be affected buy this.
 
daysofglory said:
makes you wonder was it ego greed for whatever was the reason for doing this alot of peoples lives are going to be affected buy this.
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I have more than some, less time than a lot of others, but just the way I see it, it is all about greed, which to say is not all that bad, greed in the business market is a good thing, it is what drives you to do better, but others are talking greed at the top, lining pockets and letting the company pay in the long run. Now, Vitran finds itself running in a negative operating ratio, a lot of equipment should have been sent to a mexican auction years go, attempts to upgrade with built down to a price spec trucks are biting us in the but (we are having a lot of problems with the Max Force motors since they turned them down to 270hp, EGR systems keep plugging up, engine don't heat up and burn it off the way they were designed, and not covered by warrenty) Then we go get 1000 leased trailers, yep that sure cured the trailer issue, within a year 90% that come through my place are severely damaged with forklift holes in walls, floors gouged to the point of seeing daylight, oh and let's not forget buying the cheapest roll up doors we could find and trusting them to work 150 times a week. Seriously, I like pulling the old Milan trailers, solid old Great Dane with real floors and doors that are not pretty but work every time, logistic posts for stacking, and let's not forget air ride, I think Milan was ahead of the curve compared to Vitran in equipment specs.
 
Before I go off on a rant..Central Freight is doing great these days $$...(not to be mistaken for Central Transport).....These are the facts for most guys....Is this horse dead yet??? Damn it should be....Its the same old crap over and over and over and over and over again....Most of us will leave....But only when this company goes belly up...My reason for staying is easy to say...The job is easy and I'm getting older and just plan on staying until its over...I say I'm gonna leave sooner because at times I get caught up in the drama that goes on here. But its easy money...Sure lots of BS but thats everywhere...Why should I leave this cake job until I have to. My circumstances are different from most...Im debt free for the most part. And I have many other options...My kids are grown, my house is paid for...all my cars and trucks...4wheelers...Motorcycle...All my toys...4 years until retirement...Many guys here know who I am...Most management knows...I dont really care...Im not trying to hide anything here. I haven't always drove a truck and have many options...But you young guys need to take a good look at whats going on here...This company is about to fold...$$ knew it and left for UPSF and I applaud him for that..Now thats a man...Doing what must be done...I think some on here must be Bi-polar....Hell maybe I am...UP..DOWN..UP..DOWN..But the difference between me and most on here is that I know that my future is secure for the most part...Im set because of good financial planning and staying out of debt...Im old school men...I play into this drama at times because its fun...Its a game to me for the most part...Kinda like World of Warcraft, the multiplayer online roleplaying game of myth and magic...But you young guys better wake up because time is running out...Like sand in an hourglass...Get a plan and execute it...Its been said on here that the CEO never had a vision...I disagree....He had vision...He just lacked the knowledge to execute it.
 
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runawaytrain said:
Its been said on here that the CEO never had a vision...I disagree....He had vision...He just lacked the knowledge to execute it.
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Well said runaway. Will add his vision is flawed, thinking he can turn Vitran into an FDX without the money that is required and trying to do it too fast. Cannot run and hub and spoke and not adhere to cut times. Needs to be a blending of hub and spoke with kick and pick/ direct loads and meet and turns. Too many miles between terminals out east to run efficient hub and spoke and get next day to match competitors.

Fact is he has run off the best of the best talent left. The folks leaving whether they are drivers or mgmt are not the weak links , they are the strong links because they all can leave and get better jobs as they are doing. The weakest never leave because they are too lazy to look, too afraid to take risks or too incompetant or have too much baggage to get hired elsewhere. All these folks that just left were the best of the best that were left. All these folks that CK has fired the past 10 months are being blamed for the companies failures but as I see it, the company in the past whether Vitran or PJAX were both making money, not a lot but some. The Milan purchase never should have happened but this company did not have a people problem, it has a "process" problem and that starts with CK. After one year he gets a big F as in Failure.

I am with you on the spending front. Have all but my mortgage paid off, cars and toys paid for. House needs a new roof and a paint job but that can wait another couple years. Hunker down, save money and see what happens.
 
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