TForce | Seniority Always Prevails!

NiKDiesel

TB Regular
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*** I hope you don't mind "scooter824"... I felt it necessary to give this reply as much exposure as possible...

(originally posted in http://www.truckingboards.com/trucking/upload/ups-freight/34513-past-practice-3.html thread)

Article 5 should cover all concerns regarding "Violation of Seniority" ***



and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe seniority for extra work or overtime is addressed at all. I thought this was crazy for a union contract:hide:

Article 5
Section 1. Seniority


(a). Upon completion of the probationary period, the employee’s seniority for all purposes shall be the first day worked as a probationary employee.

Seniority shall be broken only by discharge, voluntary quit, normal retirement, or more than a two (2) year layoff, or leave,

*** (for all purposes) covers your concerns ***

*** even though it is included in the probationary language... It is in effect "from" the "first day worked" "Upon completion of the probationary period"... And "Does Not End" "Unless - Seniority is Broken by: discharge, voluntary quit, normal retirement, or more than a two (2) year layoff, or leave"

*** Seniority - Blankets the Entire Contract ***
 
I think your stretching for that one, when it says "for all purposes" I don't think it means for every porpose seniority will settle it.

I would think it means for every situation that is settled with seniority, then for all of those situations seniority will be determined by the same seniority date.

No more situations where seniority starts on different dates. An example would be when an employee transfers his seniority date would always be his first day worked as a probationary employee. Not the day of his transfer.


I don't think it means every situation will be soved with seniority like which stops a city driver gets or which tractor he wants.
 
I think your stretching for that one, when it says "for all purposes" I don't think it means for every porpose seniority will settle it.

I would think it means for every situation that is settled with seniority, then for all of those situations seniority will be determined by the same seniority date.

No more situations where seniority starts on different dates. An example would be when an employee transfers his seniority date would always be his first day worked as a probationary employee. Not the day of his transfer.


I don't think it means every situation will be soved with seniority like which stops a city driver gets or which tractor he wants.
Article 5
Section 1. Seniority

(g). In developing the initial Local Cartage seniority list referenced above, the Company shall use the employee’s Company seniority date unless a particular employee transferred into his current service center from another service center. In such event, the employee’s transfer date to the current service center shall be used to develop the seniority list.

I believe that when an employee does transfer to a new terminal he/she does have a new seniority date. He/she does keep company seniority for amount of vacation and layoff and pay, but cannot bump someone from that terminal with less company seniority but more terminal seniority from there bid/run.
 
That says the initial list, doesn't that mean that any transfers after the initial list is made that the seniority date will be the same as the company seniority list?

Any transfers after the initial list is made will keep there seniority?
 
That says the initial list, doesn't that mean that any transfers after the initial list is made that the seniority date will be the same as the company seniority list?

Any transfers after the initial list is made will keep there seniority?

The key word in the contract language is "Transfered" not transfers. Therefore, the date an employee "Transfered" in, will be his/her seniority date.
 
That says the initial list, doesn't that mean that any transfers after the initial list is made that the seniority date will be the same as the company seniority list?

Any transfers after the initial list is made will keep there seniority?


If an employee "Transfers" from one terminal to another regardless of whether or not the "initial" Local Cartage Seniority List has been established...

The transfer date becomes that employee's seniority date... for that terminal that he or she transferred into...

__________________________________

"Transfers" will always be subjected to paragraph (g.)

By removing: In developing the initial Local Cartage seniority list referenced above,

and referencing: the Company shall use the employee’s Company seniority date unless a particular employee transferred into his current service center from another service center.

__________________________________


When applying the language of a contract... it is not always necessary to include all surrounding words, paragraphs or sections...

I explained this once before through these two post:

http://www.truckingboards.com/trucking/upload/320746-post38.html

http://www.truckingboards.com/trucking/upload/320834-post45.html

Interpretation is the key to understanding how to apply the language of any contract...

Don't limit yourselves into thinking that what is written and where it is written is only applicable to that section!

Cross-reference, extract and combine if necessary...

Allow every word that is written to work for us! :1036316054:
 
I think your stretching for that one, when it says "for all purposes" I don't think it means for every porpose seniority will settle it.


Seniority Prevails at All Times!

Get use to it!

Understand it!

Respect it!

Seniority is "ALL" we have!

There is going to be a time (actually there will be many times) where you will be confronted with either an opportunity to exercise your seniority or not...

If collectively we are not living by those three statements then you know what?

You may not get a chance to pick and choose anything!

__________________________________

As far as this being a stretch...

This is the "Most Important" article in the entire contract!

If your "Not" comfortable in the understanding of this section... then you need to present the information to someone else for verification...

I encourage you to do so!

You need to fully comprehend this over anything else!
 
..yeap this is going to be a very contentious issue..I have it all 6 mon`s part time , 7 yrs shop time ,13 yrs road time....so I find it interesting depending on which side of fence you are on the interpretation of words and phrases...so I guess it`s time to lawyer up for their interpretation...thing is money has a way of getting the interpretation you want...dang this is soooo patheic...:hide:
 
..yeap this is going to be a very contentious issue..I have it all 6 mon`s part time , 7 yrs shop time ,13 yrs road time....so I find it interesting depending on which side of fence you are on the interpretation of words and phrases...so I guess it`s time to lawyer up for their interpretation...thing is money has a way of getting the interpretation you want...dang this is soooo patheic...:hide:



As its written in Article 5 your casual(part-time) time would count towards your "regular" seniority if your probationary period was during this time.
But futher into the contract it says your full time date is your "regular" seniority date.

Under Overnite, part-time counted under company time(vacation, pension, etc,.)but not towards seniority in a individual full-time classification.
The current contract contradicts itself concerning this issue.
 
As its written in Article 5 your casual(part-time) time would count towards your "regular" seniority if your probationary period was during this time.
But further into the contract it says your full time date is your "regular" seniority date.

Under Overnite, part-time counted under company time(vacation, pension, etc,.)but not towards seniority in a individual full-time classification.
The current contract contradicts itself concerning this issue
.

..tigerwitha88..I join Boats..Welcome...your response is half correct...my part-time was in the check-bay;checking in the locals at the end of the day.Now I worked 20hrs a week..a set time 5-9 M-F,now if you remember that was the requirement for your part-time to be counted(per the green procedure manuals) as company time.When I was wrench turner that was always my seniority date period...but then I went to the road,now comes the rub,classification seniority starts at that date.So I can bump you for vacation but you can bump me for a bid....so again it depends on which side of the fence you are on...of course I want company seniority to trump all...but I have no illusions of the other position either...I think we will have a vote and how ever the vote goes that is what we will ask for in our supp...
 
Thanks for the welcome.
I was part-time the first 11 months of my employment(of 16 years). The first 90 days was my probationary period. So as I read Article 5 my first day is my "regular" seniority date. But later in the contract it says your full time date is your "regular" seniority date.
Confusing but I have a feeling its going to be the same as the Overnite method.
Two seniority's, your company time and your full time classification time.
 
renegade313

tigerwitha88


Both of your concerns are addressed here:


Article 5
Section 1. Seniority


(d). For full-time employees...
Employees in the following classifications shall be included on the local cartage seniority list:
all truck drivers, helpers, dock workers, jockeys,

and such other employees as may be presently or hereafter represented by the Union,
engaged in local pickup, delivery, and assembling of freight.


_______________________________________________________


*** In determining your "Company Seniority Date" (applicable to this contract) your date will be reflective of the day you became a "Full Time Employee" in one of these "Four Classifications" "Only" (all truck drivers, helpers, dock workers, jockeys) ***
 
We have several employees that have 6-8 years of part-time service although they are full-time now. I know as of right now its counted towards their vacation time, and I assume still counted towards their retirement.
So it looks like the same seniority system Overnite had in place, two seniority's.
 
We have several employees that have 6-8 years of part-time service although they are full-time now. I know as of right now its counted towards their vacation time, and I assume still counted towards their retirement.
So it looks like the same seniority system Overnite had in place, two seniority's.

Up in New England we are asking for 1 master list across the board " company seniority" prevails starting with every employees "Fulltime Start Date".

If the company recognizes the fact that after 9 years of employment of which 5 of those years is part time you will recieve 3 weeks vacation then so be it.
But you will fall into the seniority list wether it be "Local Cartage" which nik explained, or "Road", this is where you fall into place.

If someone on local cartage has 5 years Fulltime seniority, and you have 9 , 5 of which is part time then 4 which is Full Time, Fulltime seniority prevails on that list. And the man with the 5 years wins.
 
Up in New England we are asking for 1 master list across the board " company seniority" prevails starting with every employees "Fulltime Start Date".

If the company recognizes the fact that after 9 years of employment of which 5 of those years is part time you will recieve 3 weeks vacation then so be it.
But you will fall into the seniority list wether it be "Local Cartage" which nik explained, or "Road", this is where you fall into place.

If someone on local cartage has 5 years Fulltime seniority, and you have 9 , 5 of which is part time then 4 which is Full Time, Fulltime seniority prevails on that list. And the man with the 5 years wins.


Yes but that man with 9 years still has 9 years with the company. Counting towards his vacation and retirement, possibly layoff?
Still you have two lists.
 
This is going to be a real hot issue with UPS. The way our BA explained it to us was terminal seniority prevails over company.

Overnite was the same way except for layoffs it went by company not terminal seniority.

I for one believe it should be by company.
 
Yes but that man with 9 years still has 9 years with the company. Counting towards his vacation and retirement, possibly layoff?
Still you have two lists.

Even though you have 2 lists the gentelman with 5 years prevails because his time was in fulltime status, all time counted for seniority starts from "FULLTIME" start date. Everything before was part time in of the nine year veteran with 4 years fulltime. IN the contract it states there will also be a part time seniority list, in this case "Fulltime" still prevails. Fulltime stature can bump part time stature regaurdless as to how many years the parttimer has. But a parttime senior cannot be bumped by a perttime junior.

If it comes time for layoff your FULLTIME status is recognized in workforce reduction. Fulltime status can bump part time status. seniority prevails it is right in the contract.
 
This is going to be a real hot issue with UPS. The way our BA explained it to us was terminal seniority prevails over company.

Overnite was the same way except for layoffs it went by company not terminal seniority.

I for one believe it should be by company.

Well that is true skeeter, to an extent, as I have said , in the northeast we are going to one list, this inturn kills the language because bidding will be done across party lines. Once a year. Maybe twice, have not seen suppliments yet. And seniority dovetails in any list.

You guy's will keep a seniority rosta for road and one for city if you choose, but for time of work force reduction, seniority still prevails. The same will be done for us only when time for bid company seniority prevails. Otherwise when time for workforce reduction seniority will prevail.

In your case if a road run gets cut for the night if the road driver wants to work he has to take extra road work in the city ( if it's available) at the bottom of the city list. And vice versa. Or dock work.
 
Even though you have 2 lists the gentelman with 5 years prevails because his time was in fulltime status, all time counted for seniority starts from "FULLTIME" start date. Everything before was part time in of the nine year veteran with 4 years fulltime. IN the contract it states there will also be a part time seniority list, in this case "Fulltime" still prevails. Fulltime stature can bump part time stature regaurdless as to how many years the parttimer has. But a parttime senior cannot be bumped by a perttime junior.

If it comes time for layoff your FULLTIME status is recognized in workforce reduction. Fulltime status can bump part time status. seniority prevails it is right in the contract.

I understand but there's still going to be two seniority lists(one won't be posted). One for your benefits as I've mentioned and the other for bid/layoff.

Pretty much they way it was under Overnite.
 
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