TForce | Sick and tired

I understand that Wass but we aren't all having the same problems evidentally. I've said it before....I don't fault anyone for being pro or anti union/company. I just think everyone needs to open their minds and rationally look at the long term affects of union/non union. Don't vote union because you "think" unions make all the difference in the world. Don't vote against because you "think" the company is great. If everyone calms down and looks at the items proposed by the union and makes an informed decision then that's all anyone can ask. The minute the guys on here see a post that goes against their engrained beliefs....they lose their minds. You can't have a rational conversation with someone who thinks they "have the way". Same problem with trying to debate religion. It just doesn't work!!!

Good Reply !!! Everyone needs to be able to sit down and read line by line and UNDERSTAND what they are reading. We have all heard truths and half truths and some total lies about this whole thing. The sad part is I have seen this same old deal come and go since the late 1970's
 
That is crazy! Do you have better coverage than a $21.50 per week employee. That is what I pay. This is a perfact example of why no one should use Indy's medical deal as a focal point. Med ins. varies greatly all over the country.

The coverage is good, no out of pocket expence except for $15.00 co-payment as long as I stay within the network. But still, $88.00 per week is much to high.
 
Bmf thank you for your reply. I personaly have 26 years in union jobs and speaking from experience, they have always been better than the non-jobs. the proof is in the yearly statement that comes from social security, it clearly lists income and i can show you union vs. non by how much or little i made. I work hard and am not concerned with petty things like write ups. As far as trying to trick posters on these boared, the only person youre fooling is your self,,no offence intended,,,just my 2 cents and after jan 1 maby ill throw in 1 more penny.
 
Glad:
Insult away?..... Are you saying when someone disagrees with you, you take it as an insult?

I'm talking about the same guys that call us "pro Union" employees teamster wanabes. Just because we are tired of giving up to the company. There has been no resolutions to our issues as far as the company's concerned so where else do we go?

Glad:
Just because someone is anti-union does not automatically mean they are company men/women.
It could just mean they don't want to be, don't like, or even hate the union

You can't say one thing bad about "their" company. These are usually the guys that say to go somewhere else if you don't like "their" company. Some of us did not choose overnite, it was just the hand we were delt in the merger. Some of the old O employees tell me that they got paid for all their time on duty and it was changed, (for the worse) and still standing in defense...I don't understand.

Glad:
so why assume that anti-union people are company men?

Well, let's just say that the majority that I talk to are one in the same, Loyal to the point of turning in their fellow employee to get Management recognition (and we know that there are more colorful words to express this, but I will refrain) and hating the Union for what they heard happened and not experiencing anything for themselves. Or possible management brainwashing.

Glad:
this statement sounds kind of insulting to me, but I guess the anti-union crowd are the ones who do it best in your mind

Glad, read the past post for yourself, I've taken plenty of hits, If you are insulted It wasn't my intention.

Glad:
I have been neutral on this issue for quite some time now, and this board has been relatively pro-union for about that same length of time, but I couldn't let this one go by without a reasonable response to your post.

If you put some thought into your thought process, you may agree with what I said at least to some extent....but if you are so pro-union that you automatically call me a company man and say that I insulted you...you shouldn't be talking about listening to reason

Responses are always welcome, and I never called you a company man. I don't really know your position. And I never said you insulted me.

Here's my reasoning, I was not pro union until we started taking hits at my terminal...ie, cut runs, cut mileage, cut delay, meal pay eliminated, and ultimately forced transfers and 60% of laydown runs cancelled, it might be a higher percentage. All of our calls and complaints went unanswered by management. At this point is when I decided that we needed help, not you but us that were affected. Some talk about loosing their 401k match here and don't want to lose a thing, well, I already have right out of the gate, Feb 06 to be exact. Should I stand by and let them keep taking? When should I take a stand? This, in part, is why I don't understand extreme company loyalty.
 
Good post glad. I fully agree. Trying to explain to a few of these fellas that there are pro's and con's to unions and company's. You have to weigh all options to see what benefits us best not just blindly follow one path or the other. It's amazing to me how little these guysare willing to put aside their engrained beliefs and look at both sides in an unbiased manner. That's the only way to truly realize what will benefit the most in the long run.

You obviously don't pay attention or just plain don't get it. There are reasons why there has been no other alternative. It has nothing to do with beliefs, and I've tried with one side and I am now trying the next. The first side won't budge an inch.

Please try to explain to me how I am blindly following a certain path.
 
You can believe whatever you want about my posts. The facts were very clearly spelled out. I stated that this info was from A p&d driver in Indy. This is his information that I have passed on. Believe whatever you want......this is what I was told during our conversation. Right, wrong or otherwise it IS WHAT WAS TOLD TO ME.

And you took this guy's word for gold. Did you even ask another indy employee for some contrast or were you looking for the worst and that's all?
 
And you took this guy's word for gold. Did you even ask another indy employee for some contrast or were you looking for the worst and that's all?
Wasn't looking for best or worst. This happens to be the only Indy employee that I have contact with. I never said his word was gold either. You guys with no ability to listen to logic or reason read these posts with blinders on. I never said this was the gospel. If you go back and read.....I stated that this isthe info received during a phone call with the Indy driver last Friday afternoon/evening. All I did was relay the info I was given. You can make whatever you want of that and twist it to fit your agenda anyway you need to. The fact is i just passed along what I was told by an affected employee of that terminal. DEAL WITH IT!!!!!
 
Wasn't looking for best or worst. This happens to be the only Indy employee that I have contact with. I never said his word was gold either. You guys with no ability to listen to logic or reason read these posts with blinders on. I never said this was the gospel. If you go back and read.....I stated that this isthe info received during a phone call with the Indy driver last Friday afternoon/evening. All I did was relay the info I was given. You can make whatever you want of that and twist it to fit your agenda anyway you need to. The fact is i just passed along what I was told by an affected employee of that terminal. DEAL WITH IT!!!!!

Number one, I have no agenda, I've explained my position many times. I'm not trying to twist it in any way, but your listening to one person and it sure sounds to me that your basing your decision on it.
 
Number one, I have no agenda, I've explained my position many times. I'm not trying to twist it in any way, but your listening to one person and it sure sounds to me that your basing your decision on it.
I haven't based my decision on anything. I haven't made up my mind which way to go yet. I'm all for a contract if it makes sense. I don't believe in the "take the 1st contract and fight for a good one on the 2nd" mentality. I am with whoever offers me the best pay/benefits package. As i've said.....I do my job well enough that I am not worried about my job security. I'm all about the pay and benefits. I'm open to either sides proposals and I will without bias evaluate both and see which makes sense for me and my family. That's all i'm saying. Everyone needs to objectively look at what's proposed and not go in thinking the company is the devil and accepting a bill of goods that's not actually good. We all essentially want the same things. We want the most we can get for the least sacrifice and we want to be treated as fairly as you can be by a mega corporation. Why do you keep trying to fight those of us who simply say I won't vote for the union is the contract is crap?
 
Glad:


I'm talking about the same guys that call us "pro Union" employees teamster wanabes. Just because we are tired of giving up to the company. There has been no resolutions to our issues as far as the company's concerned so where else do we go?

Glad:


You can't say one thing bad about "their" company. These are usually the guys that say to go somewhere else if you don't like "their" company. Some of us did not choose overnite, it was just the hand we were delt in the merger. Some of the old O employees tell me that they got paid for all their time on duty and it was changed, (for the worse) and still standing in defense...I don't understand.

Glad:


Well, let's just say that the majority that I talk to are one in the same, Loyal to the point of turning in their fellow employee to get Management recognition (and we know that there are more colorful words to express this, but I will refrain) and hating the Union for what they heard happened and not experiencing anything for themselves. Or possible management brainwashing.

Glad:


Glad, read the past post for yourself, I've taken plenty of hits, If you are insulted It wasn't my intention.

Glad:


Responses are always welcome, and I never called you a company man. I don't really know your position. And I never said you insulted me.

Here's my reasoning, I was not pro union until we started taking hits at my terminal...ie, cut runs, cut mileage, cut delay, meal pay eliminated, and ultimately forced transfers and 60% of laydown runs cancelled, it might be a higher percentage. All of our calls and complaints went unanswered by management. At this point is when I decided that we needed help, not you but us that were affected. Some talk about loosing their 401k match here and don't want to lose a thing, well, I already have right out of the gate, Feb 06 to be exact. Should I stand by and let them keep taking? When should I take a stand? This, in part, is why I don't understand extreme company loyalty.

I wasn't personally offended. Just responding to the blanket statements to anti-union employee's....which you have clarified in this post.

I didn't assume you were calling me anything. I was merely pointing out that most anti-union employee's are always tagged company men....and that not always true.

I personally could care less either way...and with the contract Indy got, I'm sure UPS doesn't care either since Indy didn't get anything worth speaking of.
 
I know and thats ok w\me, for whats its worth. once you 'organize' your thoughts youll know whats best for you will be best for all of us at UPSF. the company will be the best and they will only have the best people working for them.
 
Good post glad. I fully agree. Trying to explain to a few of these fellas that there are pro's and con's to unions and company's. You have to weigh all options to see what benefits us best not just blindly follow one path or the other. It's amazing to me how little these guysare willing to put aside their engrained beliefs and look at both sides in an unbiased manner. That's the only way to truly realize what will benefit the most in the long run.


First of all , you say these fellas, well this fella is not biast, and is pro union.

Secondly you said this person, wether you and skeeter both agree too this I do not care and no offense too skeeter or youself at this point, but I am sure you can understand where we are comming from after reading this.

("According to one of the p&d drivers in Indy, they royally screwed up by signing cards. the agreement between the union and UPS was that a card check not a contract vote is all it would take to unionize a terminal. Indy did a card check and 107 people signed.")

Yes you are right, all it took was a card check too unionize a terminal ( or at the very least ask for representation from the union). I do not think most of us biast union people are disagreeing with you.

Now a contract must be voted on, after one ask's for representation, but it must be negotiated first, ( what came first the chicken or the egg).93 of 125 people sighned cards for representation. and 107 of these people thought it was a good one, and 1 did not, which tells me 108 people voted on the contract, this has too happen prior too ratification.

Next thing.

( "They blew it by signing the card check prior to a contract proposal being offered. This is not my opinion.....it came srtaight from an Indy employee Fri. afternoon")

Now, how the hell can a card check be a vote for the contract#1, when the contract is not even negotiated at this point ? and #2 this type of action is illegal.... call me a pro biast union man all you want ,but I am familiar with the law and I am under the impression you are not....... Particularley if you believe that statement.

Next thing

("They blew it by signing the card check prior to a contract proposal being offered. This is not my opinion.....it came srtaight from an Indy employee Fri. afternoon")

We have 2 people from INDY on these boards, they have kept us in light, now I do not know you from a hole in the ground but I will be damned if you call me ignorent and biast, because your statement is nothing but hear say.

HEARSAY, doo you understand.........

Next thing.........

("If you are pro-union you will try to find a way to illegitimize these statements. If you are anti-union this will send you screaming about the union bast**ds. They blew it by signing the card check prior to a contract proposal being offered. This is not my opinion.....")

If you are familiar with the laws, this is BS., It may not be your opinion ,but you are repeating something, therefore it is HEARSAY............. if the guy's in INDY did not like thier contract they should have sent it back, they had and everyone has the legitimate and lawfull right to do this. Do you think some of us is stupid? Please save your breath.

I have had the pleasure of a faray into the union prior too this company and I am fully aware of how it works, you will not tell me something I have not experianced before in referrance to the union. Please if you are basing your judgement on hearsay I am quite happy too say, I am happy you are not in my terminal.

So now that I have said my peace, just what engrained beliefs are you referring too, please and atleast give this biast prounion engrained believer the chance too explain rather then INSULTING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

IGNORENCE IS BLISS, AND PASSING JUDGEMENT ON HEARSAY WITHOUT BEING THERE IS IGNORENCE , A PROCESS I WOULD RATHER NOT BE A PART OF!!!!!!!!!!

THERE has been alot of crap rolling around on these boards wich have proven true and garbage, but hearsay is hearsay, I do not care how you paint it.
 
I understand that Wass but we aren't all having the same problems evidentally. I've said it before....I don't fault anyone for being pro or anti union/company. I just think everyone needs to open their minds and rationally look at the long term affects of union/non union. Don't vote union because you "think" unions make all the difference in the world. Don't vote against because you "think" the company is great. If everyone calms down and looks at the items proposed by the union and makes an informed decision then that's all anyone can ask. The minute the guys on here see a post that goes against their engrained beliefs....they lose their minds. You can't have a rational conversation with someone who thinks they "have the way". Same problem with trying to debate religion. It just doesn't work!!!


If you want too have an informed meeting based on the contract, how can you do this unless you vote for representation? Second thing, if you do not insult people, you may see rational staring you in the face.

You speak of engrained beliefs, well how is this.

Senior guy's going home before junior guy's after a day of not seeing 8 hrs. on the clock.
Seniority, in the 15000 dollar toilet paper I have spoken about from time too time, is never followed.
The competition pay's overtime after 8, why are we not?
Road drivers are staying home and xtraboards is taking thier loads, and if not extra boards, contractors.
People being written up due too the lack of intelligent dispatchers and sup's and the lack of training on thier part now becomes the problem of the person being discaplined. Or fired.

Sups, running around acting like dicatator's, and acting like we should fear them, do they have a job to do.

Dispatch telling us we have too take junk on the road that is not even fit too rot in the yard.
Hauling overweight. and disciplining the person whom refuses.
Hauling HAZMAT without being properly braced, or having incompatibles in the same truck......

I could go on and on. Please do not tell me I am engrained in ignorence , please you know nothing of what you speak of.....
 
Wasn't looking for best or worst. This happens to be the only Indy employee that I have contact with. I never said his word was gold either. You guys with no ability to listen to logic or reason read these posts with blinders on. I never said this was the gospel. If you go back and read.....I stated that this isthe info received during a phone call with the Indy driver last Friday afternoon/evening. All I did was relay the info I was given. You can make whatever you want of that and twist it to fit your agenda anyway you need to. The fact is i just passed along what I was told by an affected employee of that terminal. DEAL WITH IT!!!!!

I am sorry too say this sir, but you know nothing of logic............ and your statement spoke in a subliminal message of a decision well recieved.....
 
Once a terminal goes union and gets a contract, then you can use the power of a grievence procedure to iron out all problems. If a TM thinks he can pay P+D driver dock wage when on dock? Then you can take it to a grievence hearing. The TM does not have the final say, and if he loses at the hearing; EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO WAS CHEATED OUT OF PAY WILL BE COMPENSATED. Pile the paper high on the TM's desk, make him answer every grievence. They are done on company time and the cost of the hearing is split 50-50. Let your TM balance his #'s on that! That is the true power of the union! Not pay or benys but the grievence hearing. :1036316054:
 
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