TForce | Snow & Ice - On Top of Trailers

Well I was a UPS Freight safety trainner... But all in all it was nice to be able to keep my co-workers safe,on the job.

As a former Safety Trainer... what would You tell Your co-workers now...

What would You tell Management?

And, what would You say to Logan C. (?)

I got to have a whole lot more responsibility above,and beyond a regular driver,plus the authority with the safety department to over rule any unsafe act of all my terminals authority figures such as supervisors,and including my terminal TM

Based on the information that I have provided...

Would You still permit - this sort of response?

Snow removal atop big rigs_post #6 - March 3rd. 2008

Yes I brought this issue up at the beginning of this winter season on our UPS Freight forum.

we all put in our 2 cents and wound up with the same conclusion we get from our authority figures every winter.

Just go out,and don't worry about it.

However we did find out that UPS parcel has some roof plows at some of their larger depots that scraps the snow off their trailers.

I called the head of our safety department,and asked about getting these devices for all of our freight terminals.

the answer was they cost to much to put them everywhere.

I said a law sute could cost more.

Then I was put in my place for having a negative attitude.

So this is the end of the story up to this point in time!

Or would You grind Your heels in and finally make a stand?
 
Well sir being a union member may offer the advantage of pushing the safety issue a little harder.
Where as being non-union we could only voice our opinions,and see where anything would go.
However I was able to overide my TM with most equipment safety issues,by going over his head to Logan.

I found Logan to be very understanding,and concerned for everyones safety.

I'm retired now so I can only sepeculate what the safety trainners can,or can't do now that most of the company is unionized.
 
I don't see this as a Union / non-Union advantage...

And I am not directing this at You Apostolic...

The problem is (and always will be) that whether or not You are a Union or non-Union driver... only a select few will challenge their employer - with this Safety Risk!

It's Easier to just get in the truck... and hope for the best...

What I've tried to create here is an Out...

An Out that most probably never considered...

Having actual documentation in hand - Proving Safety Violations as well as possible Financial Consequence...

Holds much more Value - then just going in and Voicing a Concern...

I'm basically showing - that this issue is Unchallengeable!

With all Drivers Regulated under the FMCSA - §393.100

By taken it a step further and providing OSHA information and specific State Code and Ordinances...

I can't see any Supervisor, TM or Private Fleet Owner - challenging their employee... to a point of ultimatum...

Now, each individual driver - reading through this thread - needs to ask him or herself whether the risk involved is worth the time it would take to just print out the documentation that I have provided... and use it when needed...

Your Drivers License is Yours - use it Wisely!

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." - Thompson v Smith, 154 SE 579.
 
I've seen quite a few thread like this, so I'm going to throw everything I've wanted to chime in with on this one. I'm going to play the devils advocate here for a sec, bear with me: Why is this happening so much more frequently lately, or is it just the media cherry-picking for the ratings. Snow and ice have been falling off roofs since horses pulled buggy's fast enough to do it. I'm not trying to minimize it's importance or severity, but everything comes with a price. There's a lot broader picture than us pulling out of our barns every night. Think beyond a few injuries, or I venture to even say deaths, to the cost of cleaning off EVERY trailer, ANYWHERE, going out on the road after a snowstorm has built up anything on the roof. Scrapers, brushes, and rakes in our yards is one thing. If "every" driveway, "everywhere" a vehicle that could accumulate ice or snow could drive, had over it a device to mount a blade or a rake and some sort of beater, not heater, to loosen any ice, along with someone to clear snow out of the driveway after a truck that accumulated snow on their property drove out, the property owner would scream. That is unless the laws were written to include them for not having it. Likewise, how can a cleaning crew be called into any shipper to clean off one of our trailers that's been sitting there for a day or two and has a foot of drifted fluff on the roof. And lesser of a driver problem, but one for the shipper, what do they do with the snow and ice from the roof just dumped in the parking lot? Are they liable in any way for not letting a driver try to clean snow or have someone come in and clean off his roof before he enters public right-of-way? What choices would they/should they have? After all, the trucker didn't put the snow there, and the trailer isn't in the shape we left it on their property with all that new snow on top. How much is reasonably clean-most intermodal cans have corrugated roofs the blades won't work well on and would have to be stiff-brushed. So who picks up the tab? For once, not the taxpayers on this one, must be the companies, ultimately you and I.

Nik, you've done wonderful research, but this is why you got the brush off from the higher-up's--They don't know! Nobody above them knows what to do either. Public pressure and lawsuits will do the trick for the relatively rare times anything like these occurences happens. And really, public pressure isn't that intense yet or this would have been addressed 80 years ago, or at least enforced in the few places it can be. Most of the examples you cited included leaving material on roadways. Those more often specifically cover things like gravel falling out of a truck, or leaving snow on the road when you plow your driveway out across the road into the opposite bank, stuff like that. It's material that was placed by man in a manner that could have been done so no mess was made on the roadway to endanger vehicles. From your links, very few states contain laws that actually and directly cover snow falling off a truck or car without a lengthy stretch of law, and they know that. That's why they have to write new laws to address it. Car cleaning laws are generally written to require visibilty, cars just don't have that much snow or ice on them to do damage comparable to the amount on a truck. And given the test, snow on the roof of a vehicle is "act of God" and truly isn't really cargo (or freight) by any stretch of the definition(except when weight issues arise). It's snow on the roof. Can't be one for cars, and not for trucks. Either way, it's a fascinating dilemma that quite frankly, hasn't really been addressed at all yet and nobody really has any real answers on how to eliminate the problem; the truckers, the shippers, or the policy makers. All in all, it's still the drivers responsiblity, even if he's on an exit ramp or rest area in Bum-Wherever, taking hours, waiting for the storm to die down before heading out with a few inches on the roof. Even if it's the icicles running down the side of the trailer when it starts to melt that break off. Even if it's the big chunk of not-so-slushy stuff that falls off the truck in a snowstorm , rolls and bounces a couple times, and takes out the grille on a Hyundai before the guy swerves, loses it and ends up in the ditch. It's always the truck drivers fault. Maybe we need shiny helmets.

Whatever happened to snow or ice being "Act of God", clean it off REASONABLY and we all just take some chances, much like we have for eons. Never mind....It's easier just to be safe, sit back and watch somebody else clean-up the mess because they have the right equipment! And its probably a whole lot less costly in the long run. Like you said Nik, "it's your license, use it wisely". Not only is it my license, it's a life I don't want to inject any more problems than necessary into. CYA comes to mind! Now if it could be realistically and uniformally implemented, interpreted, and followed by everybody, even better. I'm not holding my breath. Matter of fact, maybe I should look into buying an old bucket truck, mount a blade, brush and a vibrator from an old sand compactor on the boom, put a plow blade on the front of the truck and see how it goes in my off time. Any investors or customer referals? Times- a-wasting;spring's right around the corner, but there's always next winter. lol

Dave
 
I've seen quite a few thread like this, so I'm going to throw everything I've wanted to chime in with on this one.
Dave,

I appreciate Your recognition of quality and quantity of this thread…

Your points are well taken…

Your right… there are allot of discussions out there – voicing the same concerns…

Yet, no-one has really addressed the issue – from a legal perspective…

They voice their opinions – solicit recommendations – speak of legal requirements and or ramifications… then the discussion fizzles out – without any factual information and or possible alternatives…

This thread provides just that…

For all those interested in using the information for Themselves…

Opinions are Welcome!

Please understand… that My posting of this topic as well as the content provided – is for informational purposes only… and not meant to be telling You or anyone else reading through – what is right, wrong or in the best interest – when confronted with this particular situation…

Each person needs to decide for themselves… just as They have since:

Snow and ice have been falling off roofs since horses pulled buggy's fast enough to do it.
 
Most of the examples you cited included leaving material on roadways. Those more often specifically cover things like gravel falling out of a truck, or leaving snow on the road when you plow your driveway out across the road into the opposite bank, stuff like that. It's material that was placed by man in a manner that could have been done so no mess was made on the roadway to endanger vehicles. From your links, very few states contain laws that actually and directly cover snow falling off a truck or car without a lengthy stretch of law, and they know that. That's why they have to write new laws to address it. Car cleaning laws are generally written to require visibilty, cars just don't have that much snow or ice on them to do damage comparable to the amount on a truck. And given the test, snow on the roof of a vehicle is "act of God" and truly isn't really cargo (or freight) by any stretch of the definition(except when weight issues arise). It's snow on the roof. Can't be one for cars, and not for trucks.

Snow & Ice - On Top of Trailers_post #77

Snow & Ice - On Top of Trailers_post #39

Snow & Ice - On Top of Trailers_post #79
 
U.S.36 in KA.,I just ran across another ice in the windshield crash report to add to this thread topic.
This one happened 1/12/09, I know this won't be the last of these crashes before the winter season is over.

KSALLink.com
 
There are sufficient alternative solutions available - other then permanently installed apparatuses!

Why not Rent?

456424.jpg
 
I always thought that when using public roads, risk was always involved and acceptance of the inherited risk was always understood. Just a thought.....



((((( :shock: :shock: )))))

((((( :shock: :shock: )))))


That isn't an Expression of "Acceptance and or Understanding!"
 
I always thought that when using public roads,risk was always involved and acceptance of the inherited risk was always understood. Just a thought.....

We just recently had Ice come off of a trailer and go flying through the windshield of a car, everyone was allright in the incedent, but now UPS wants snow and ice taken off of the trailers before they hit the streets.

Dispatch does not like this at all. and must provide an OSHA approved way for the drivers to take it off as far as I am concearned.
 
thats funny because I've been going through Ohio all week and have seen lots of Browne's with snow on top. no one has said anything about snow load on top. when ice comes off its dangerous if your following at the proper distance you can avoid being hit.
 
It won't be long before all of New England states will have laws that require all snow and Ice be removed from vehicles. Its time for UPS to Install the snow roof cleaners at all terminals. I would imagine that someone will have to die first before this gets done.
 
It won't be long before all of New England states will have laws that require all snow and Ice be removed from vehicles. Its time for UPS to Install the snow roof cleaners at all terminals. I would imagine that someone will have to die first before this gets done.

New Hampshire allready has, the law went into effect last Monday, and state police have allready mentioned on local radio talk shows that Truck Drivers are the biggest offenders, I can just imagine who will recieve the ticket for taking a dangerous vehicle on the road.

We are trying to get the ball moving.
 
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