Social Security...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by a9faninnc, Nov 14, 2014.

  1. fxstc07

    fxstc07 Well-Known Member

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    You should provide proof of that meeting were Bush said he would sign whatever they came up with.
    In truth, the TARP plan had already been done and they needed support from both sides on the agreement.
    I believe McCain called such a meeting, after the TARP proposal had been laid out. He wanted input and changes. McCain suspended his campaign and wanted to return to Washington for talks. McCain just wanted to play politics.
    The date of that meeting was September 24, and the TARP program was signed on October 3. That would be 9 days after the meeting, not several weeks.
    Neither side agreed to anything at the meeting and Bush ended that meeting because he felt he had lost of control of the proceedings.
    The Bush administration had put together their plan, they needed support from both sides, which they ultimately got, and the plan moved forward on October 3, 2008 and sign by President Bush.
    The Bush administration spent the first 350 billion. WaMu had already collapsed and was taken over by Chase on September 25, 2008. The credit markets had already stopped and the market was about to go into free fall.
    It's a good thing we had many intelligent people in Washington then, and not a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks that thought they knew how to keep the economy from collapsing.
     
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  2. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    . I don't debate people who compared wanting to govern by the US constitution to ISIS burning people alive...
     
  3. fxstc07

    fxstc07 Well-Known Member

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    That is because you don't have any facts to support your comments.
    I never said what you are alluding.
    I said a extremist can be in any form, from either side of the spectrum.
     
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  4. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    I don't debate people who compare governing by the constitution to ISIS burning people alive...
     
  5. fxstc07

    fxstc07 Well-Known Member

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    That is because you can't debate with facts.
     
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  6. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    appears to me that you compared me with those wanting Islamic Levant...

    I don't debate with those equating our constitution and those burning people alive...
     
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  7. fxstc07

    fxstc07 Well-Known Member

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    Do you want division within America ?
    Do you hate people that disagree with you ?
    Do you feel your opinions are the only relevant opinions ?

    You can't debate, you don't have any facts ... period.
     
  8. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    I debate on here with almost all, since 99. Not you......

    Do believe I can hold my own position quite well with logic and facts. Not wasting time with those who compare governing via the constitution with those who burn alive any who disagree. Carry on, I'm done with you..
     
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  9. fxstc07

    fxstc07 Well-Known Member

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    Good for you ... since 1999 ... that is real nice.
    It's a shame you can't come up with a few facts now to support your baseless claim.

    The big kid on the playground wants to take his ball and go home.
     
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  10. Bubba74

    Bubba74 Well-Known Member

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    When did I blame Barry for the "economy in freefall"
    Is the economy better now than in 2009, of course, could it be better, much better except for the polices of this administration

    as for the Bush inherited recession.
    Yes, it began in March of 2001 (6-8 weeks after Bush took office)
    However the wheels for the recession were already in motion
    GDP shrunk 3rd quarter of 2000
    Stock market peaked Sept of 2000 and began to pull back

    That is twice in the same post you referred to me as "juvenile"
    personal insults, I would expect better from you.

    Then why did Clinton repeal it, he signed the bill

    you are trying to compare two different economic crisis I? assume (1929 vs 2007)
    Allowing people to buy stock on margin in fact loaning them to the money to do so , rather than loaning money to purchase a home. Same concept, same results.
    Different engine today.

    however, in an actual free market environment, people don't make loans where there is high risk that they wont be paid back.
    That is why those check cashing places charge 150% interest, high risk loans.
    govt backstopped this, they told the banks to make the loans.
     
  11. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

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    Did I say that you did?... Go back and read that part of my post again.... I'm glad that you acknowledge the obvious as regards the economy now vs 2008/2009.... Do I agree that it could be better?...yes it could be better.....but not JUST because of Obama's policies.... You forget that the Republican Party also plays a part in policy making.... The reason it could be better is because BOTH parties are complicit in putting politics ahead of the best interests of us....the citizens of this Nation... Something that you can not grasp due to your seemingly blind allegiance to a certain political Ideology...If I'm wrong about that....I wouldn't know it from your posts.....

    As I also noted and acknowledged in my post.... Yes I stated that the Economy was slowing......There were 10 years of expansion...it could not last "forever"...Bush inherited a slowing economy...... He could not have inherited something that was not yet already in existence..... Simple logic....

    That was twice in the same post that I referred to your use of two certain terms as "Juvenile"....I made no mention of you being "juvenile".....There is a difference...I would have expected that you would have known that.... No insults....nothing personal.... if you so chose to take it that way.... that is solely your opinion...No personal insult was intended....

    For the same reason that I already outlined above ...but I'll say it again.. " because BOTH parties are complicit in putting politics ahead of the best interests of us....the citizens of this Nation.."...



    I was saying that the Glass Steagall act, which was enacted in 1933 in the wake of the 1929 crash, during which time a nationwide commercial bank failure was followed by the "great depression". This act (GSA) separated investment banking and commercial banking. At the time it was determined that "improper banking activity," or what was considered overzealous commercial bank involvement in stock market investment, was deemed the main driving factor of the financial crash...in much the same way as Wall Street bankers were doing when the latest crash occurred....and are still doing so...... You still want to blame it all on people not paying back "sub-prime" loans"?... I already mentioned to you previously about how derivative instruments like collateralized debt obligations and credit default swaps were shown to be the main cause of the financial crisis in 08. ...

    Yes.."people" don't make loans where there is a high risk that they wouldn't be paid back....but there were...and are, financial institutions that do....like the aforementioned "check cashing places"... which I believe you mean those "payday" loan places..... That is how they made their money.. Counting on people not paying them back on time..... and that is not an accurate comparison of the underlying causes of the 08 crash... as I have already mentioned...
    Further.....Those high interest "payday" loan shops flourished before Government regulations limited them...so that would actually be an example of why a so called "free market" isn't always in the best interests of the average person...

    A totally "free market environment" can not exist and operate in the best interests of everyone....To much greed for the almighty "Dollar" would get in the way.....
     
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  12. Bubba74

    Bubba74 Well-Known Member

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    Makes me wonder if they really do:

    "We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.”
    - Barry O

    'I've got a pen, and I've got a phone'
    - Barry O

    and it seems the Reps missed the day they taught govt.
    In reality, there are about 50 people in congress that I can side with, the rest including the Rep leadership are in on it.
    Since they passed on Barry's illegal amnesty, give the nation a few years and we will be no better than Venezula.

    in inherited 2 out of the 3 indicators for recession, with the 3rd falling 6-8 weeks into his term.
    If you want to mince words, fine he did not inherit a recession by true definition.
    Technically, Barry's recession ended in summer of 2009.
    All I know was I was unemployed when Barry's recession "ended"
    and was working when Bush's began.

    feel the same way about NAFTA?

    Amazing how when Billy left the White House the number of aides that found jobs on Wall Street



    there is an impetus needed to start to deflate the balloon
    It does not just start happening.
    When the student debt bubble bursts (and it will) the cause of that will be people not paying back their loans. That will be the impetus just as it was for the housing bubble.
    Yes there were other things there like the way the loans were packaged and sold around the world that was a condition and not the energy which caused the entire scheme to unravel
     
  13. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

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    McConnell: The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.

    Makes me wonder, with all the truly important issues, Why did The Republicans make denying Obama a second term as their top priority... ? Everything that they have done was for the sole purpose of blocking anything the Obama administration tried to do... I guess your right...maybe they haven't actually played a part in real governing....just obstruction....which is even worse....It hasn't made the Country better and the Republicans are just as complicit....


    I think that most of them missed that "class"... If you can "side" with 50 people in Congress your trusting them far more than I can..... At least I can give you some credit for realizing that the rest of them, along with the so called "leadership" are just as complicit as the rest of Congress....

    Economic experts from around the world, not just here, believe that a true economic recession can only be confirmed if GDP growth is negative for a period of two or more consecutive quarters.... Only the forth quarter of Clintons presidency showed negative growth..So...Only one indicator...not two.... Glad you understand the actual beginning and it was not inherited.....by definition.... However, as I've said before, I agree that the economy was slowing.....and moving towards recession....There is a difference.. You can not say you "inherited" a gazillion dollars from your proverbial rich Uncle until you actually have it legally in your control....not before....even if the "Uncle" is on his death bed and it's a matter of how long....

    They don't measure when a recession begins or ends based on your situation......Many people were in your situation.... I do understand that to an individuals circumstances things can look different than what the national projections are..... I get that.... ...


    Yes...absolutely....and also I feel the same way regarding the TPP that is currently being pushed by Obama.....if you want to toss that one in too...

    Are you forgetting that many Republicans get hired by Fox....or other big Corporations....?... They all do it....It is just part of the Corruption of Politics today.... I don't know what the point was of your above statement is... If you think it was a "gotcha"... I think your wrong.... I have never denied that any of those things happen....I guess where we differ is that you only think its a "liberal" thing...

    Yes, something has to take place to begin the cascade...Go read up on Derivatives and see how they work and why they are being used..what role it played in the crash...and why they are so dangerous...It would take a lot of space and time to write on here all the information that you'd need.....

    I agree with you about the Student loan bubble and it's coming burst....but that is not totally the same as the issues that caused the 08 meltdown...What the total impact will be...it's hard to exactly know.... Time will bear that out though....unfortunately....
     
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  14. fxstc07

    fxstc07 Well-Known Member

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    I seem to recall we had this discussion about my life at the time Reagan was in office and you simply dismissed it saying your father was building more homes then ever.
    That is how different people define the economy and the administrations affect on it.
    i hope you understand the correlation between what I said and what you have now said.
     
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  15. Bubba74

    Bubba74 Well-Known Member

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    Well that did not happen
    I am pretty sure that this is that attitude taken by any party in the minority
    Furthermore, it did not influence policy because the Reps for the 1st two years had little to no role in formulating policy.
    I have addressed the obstructionism prior however, the 1st two years they could not obstruct anything, Barry pretty much had carte blanche.
    Anything after the Reps retook the house was pretty much blocked by Reid in the senate. Over 300 bills passed by the house never saw the light of day in the senate, thus, who was the real obstructionists?

    why not throw that POS (juvenile? :1036316054:) on the fire as well

    most of these private sector failures that make a big name for themselves in politics don't get to cash in until after they leave office. People put into positions they have no business being in, but because they were in govt, its ok.
    Here, like most of my problem with the left resides in their hypocrisy
    They complain about the 1%
    They complain about wealth
    They complain about special privledges
    while enjoying a lifestyle that few will ever experience


    I am aware, my wife worked with a guy that traded these with Bear Sterns
    I really miss when that guy would come to town
     
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  16. Bubba74

    Bubba74 Well-Known Member

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    I do and I did back then
    I know people that suffered through one the other or both recessions.
     
  17. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

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    That's true...Obama is going to be a two term President...... I'm sure that attitude is there in any minority party...but nothing to the degree that it has been present during this administration...You can close your eyes to it if you wish...perhaps you don't see it due to your unwavering loyalty to the "Conservatives".. Nothing I can say will cause you take off your blinders....and that is to be expected....

    Yes Obama had two years of unfettered control of the Congress....He should have used it more effectively than he did....The last 6 years are another story altogether....Obstructionism is at an unprecedented level....and those 300 bills you mention.... What where those bills?.... Obstruction on both parties...sure....but both "sides" participation are not equal.....and it does not change the fact that Obstruction, rather than governing, has never been this pervasive......



    No comment... I wouldn't want to bruise your feelings any more than I already unintentionally have....

    There is hypocrisy on the "right" as well....but you only complain about the hypocrisy of the "left" .... That, in and of is self, is being hypocritical on your part.....
    The "left" that you say are "complaining"....I'm assuming you mean the talking heads on the usual programs that you love to hate....and yes they bring out the issues caused by the concentration of wealth to a very few people....and those are important issues with more far reaching ramifications than you care to acknowledge...and yes..most of those in those positions enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle.......but at the very least they are talking about the problem.....Those on the "right" pretend it's all great and there is no problem....and if there is a problem....Easy..just Blame Obama for it....
    Well it's a lot more complex than that.... but mostly those on the "right" are only interested in the 30 second sound byte version of things.....If that does not pertain to you...ok.....but that is very true for more than just a few people...



    Give him a call and extend an invitation..... I bet he misses you guys just as much and would appreciate hearing from you and your wife..
     
  18. Bubba74

    Bubba74 Well-Known Member

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    are we even being governed, its more like we are being told what to do.
    We have no say, no input, we are not represented. This government has become everything that the founders warned us of

    The right does not complain about wealth, it is the left with all their class warfare and division politics. It seems the only people that get a pass are athletes and entertainers.
    And it is not just the talking heads.
    Barry goes on and on about this stuff while living like a billionaire on our dime
    Pelosi, Schumer, etc...... all of them
     
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  19. Northern Flash

    Northern Flash Piss on our Flag, get a boycott against you.

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    Exactly. There were three equal branches of Govt. put in place for a reason. But with this Dicktator, two of them might as well just stay home and collect their paychecks. They've even forfeited their power and authority.
     
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  20. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    First let me repeat that I see McConnell as the leader of the Republican wing of the Democrat Party. Then I will say that I want Obama limited to one term because I believe in the US Constitution and his actions prove that he only believes in the 14th amendment part of it. He governs as a tyrant thru buearaucracy, he's a Statist, Marxist, communist- whatever you want to call a Huge Central Government type that uses the tenets of Communism.

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

    http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

    By the way, since you 'liked' the guy telling me I never use facts, I'm kind of curious how you figured that? I've been here long enough that most know if I post something, I can find/ post proof (if an opponent is worthy of debate. An example Is in the Netanyahu thread, where you made a wrong assumption of article ii, and I posted the link to the articles, proving the opposite....
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015

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