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Songremainsthesame said:
I believe brother canary made my case for me below. The union has to defend the slackers as well as the hard workers, so tell me how that doesn’t breed a culture of slackers? I may be painting with a broad brush, but human nature is pretty predictable.

“They can work me long, but they can’t work me hard...”
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So, I am still waiting for you to name the workplace where stealing time is a protected activity, you put it out there now defend your statement
 
Songremainsthesame said:
I believe brother canary made my case for me below. The union has to defend the slackers as well as the hard workers, so tell me how that doesn’t breed a culture of slackers? I may be painting with a broad brush, but human nature is pretty predictable.

“They can work me long, but they can’t work me hard...”
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I don't think I quite....made your case..for you. Theft of time in a Union job,...no matter the length, duration, or circumstance,...is a fireable offense. It will uphold in arbitration cases, too. Stealing is theft,....whether it be time or merchandise,...or paperclips from the dispatch pencil holder....

In the case I made above, the COMPANY protected the man. The Union was quite prepared to accept discipline for the guy,....because the same guy was involved in a very important grievance with wide-ranging effects on the region,.......that the company wanted the Union to "bargain away",.......in order to save this guy's job....

In a Union job,..."innocent until proven guilty"....requires a thorough impartial investigation,...not mere allegation. But if someone is proven guilty, all the Union can do is try to migitate the punishment.....Operative word is "try".....

Without going into details,.....some people get hired, and are almost immediately identified as.....trouble,.....by the company. Union or not,...companies have 90 days to get rid of the guy,...without prejudice,.......as long as they aren't firing him for Union activities....

The company retains some of these guys,....KNOWING...they will become a permanent irritant and black eye for the Union...

That being said,.....did the company you are employed by ever hire an absolute imbecile? Are there any ..."slackers"...at your place?
Or,.....are all the non-Union barns paragons of highly productive, company-oriented, hard-working, constantly moving employees,........with NO lazy or "slacking" shirkers,.........NO "fair-haired company pets" who do very little for the same pay,.....
Because the non-Union companies use that "Employment-at-Will" law to constantly sweep the....deadwood...out of the barns?

Would that be true of your company? Would that be true of any company?

The only difference between Union barns and non-Union barns,..is that you will get an advocate, and an impartial trial, and a consideration of extenuating circumstances,....in the face of charges....
As opposed to an indifferent dismissal out-of-hand, based on company allegations......

I don't see where that creates a "culture of slackers"............I can see company officials putting that out as propaganda so that guys can claim "one more reason not to join a Union.."

I know you're not a company official, Brother.......I'm just saying that non-union companies like to create "reasons"...or memes, if you will,......so that guys think they have a "reason" not to view Unions favorably......

And, yes,.....it is painting with a broad brush............But when did that ever stop a company using propaganda?
 
canaryinthemine said:
I don't think I quite....made your case..for you. Theft of time in a Union job,...no matter the length, duration, or circumstance,...is a fireable offense. It will uphold in arbitration cases, too. Stealing is theft,....whether it be time or merchandise,...or paperclips from the dispatch pencil holder....

In the case I made above, the COMPANY protected the man. The Union was quite prepared to accept discipline for the guy,....because the same guy was involved in a very important grievance with wide-ranging effects on the region,.......that the company wanted the Union to "bargain away",.......in order to save this guy's job....

In a Union job,..."innocent until proven guilty"....requires a thorough impartial investigation,...not mere allegation. But if someone is proven guilty, all the Union can do is try to migitate the punishment.....Operative word is "try".....

Without going into details,.....some people get hired, and are almost immediately identified as.....trouble,.....by the company. Union or not,...companies have 90 days to get rid of the guy,...without prejudice,.......as long as they aren't firing him for Union activities....

The company retains some of these guys,....KNOWING...they will become a permanent irritant and black eye for the Union...

That being said,.....did the company you are employed by ever hire an absolute imbecile? Are there any ..."slackers"...at your place?
Or,.....are all the non-Union barns paragons of highly productive, company-oriented, hard-working, constantly moving employees,........with NO lazy or "slacking" shirkers,.........NO "fair-haired company pets" who do very little for the same pay,.....
Because the non-Union companies use that "Employment-at-Will" law to constantly sweep the....deadwood...out of the barns?

Would that be true of your company? Would that be true of any company?

The only difference between Union barns and non-Union barns,..is that you will get an advocate, and an impartial trial, and a consideration of extenuating circumstances,....in the face of charges....
As opposed to an indifferent dismissal out-of-hand, based on company allegations......

I don't see where that creates a "culture of slackers"............I can see company officials putting that out as propaganda so that guys can claim "one more reason not to join a Union.."

I know you're not a company official, Brother.......I'm just saying that non-union companies like to create "reasons"...or memes, if you will,......so that guys think they have a "reason" not to view Unions favorably......

And, yes,.....it is painting with a broad brush............But when did that ever stop a company using propaganda?
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Well, canary electronic monitoring has forced union drivers to clean up their act. I bet you can tell some stories about time card padding in the 9 bankrupt companies you previously worked for.
 
Stealing time is one thing, however, contractually we dont have quotas, etc..so a dockworker movibg 1 bill per hr, or 30 bills, i dont see quotas. Had a guy take 14 hrs from abq to liberal ks, (380 mi) back home he did it in 7.5. No language to deal with him
 
We've got to remember,....this is trucking. Not a "four-wall" job, where production can be tightly controlled. That's why we fought for years against "production standards" other than a Fair Day's Work for a Fair Day's Pay.

As we all know,......when you leave the company premises,......the extenuating circumstances affecting your time schedule are myriad.......

I can remember running NYC,...having a trailer low enough to go through the Lincoln Tunnel,.....dropping my load and speeding across Manhattan to beat traffic,.....only to be held up at the tunnel......

BECAUSE,.......Ringling Bros. and Barnum and Bailey Circus was in town,...and as they were leaving,...(through the tunnel..) it was determined that the tunnel ride was spooking the elephants,..so they had to unload them and walk them through the tunnel,.......(...in my opinion, someone wanted a "media event"..)....

Elephants walking slowly........

SO,....I lost about 4 hours of waiting,...which, of course,....threw me right into rush hour in Nuh Joisey,...costing me...who knows?

Dispatch was counting on a "quick turnaround",..........and asked me what happened........And, of course I had to tell them the problem was elephants in the tunnel..........

Which, nowadays,...would've gotten me a quick urine test....

And,.....last night in Pittsburgh the Interstate was shut down due to a civic protest,....for about 6 hours. Various dispatchers were probably ranting and wetting their pants,....but, right or wrong,..nobody was moving......

Trucking,.........Rhymes with a Dirty Word,........for a Reason.......
 
canaryinthemine said:
Whoop, there Bubba Gump,...........I'm ignoring you,..........can't see a danged thing about what you are posting........

And I don't have the slightest interest in peeking at your "Ignored Content"........
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Wise decision Canary, I think you would have better results Baptizing a monkey than educating "Goober Lip"
Just wish this 36 year old with 38 years of pay stubs could have been around in my days.
He would have been a good candidate for a REAL Teamster azz whipping.
 
seabreeze said:
Wise decision Canary, I think you would have better results Baptizing a monkey than educating "Goober Lip"
Just wish this 36 year old with 38 years of pay stubs could have been around in my days.
He would have been a good candidate for a REAL Teamster azz whipping.
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Yeah,.....Somewhere out in the last row between two tall trailers............

I think we all know the type..........300 lb opinions voiced by 98 lb pipsqueak,........(..as long as he's anonymous..)...

Used to be a lot of these "Truckstop commandos" on the CB..........

....(......Just for my own edification,......just how do you...baptize a monkey? I mean,....you just never know, right?....)...
 
joes bar and grill said:
So, I am still waiting for you to name the workplace where stealing time is a protected activity, you put it out there now defend your statement
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You and I both know it’s not in the contract, but you and I both know it happens every day. Not always blatantly either (i.e. the 2 hour nap after lunch) but little bits at a time. It’s amazing how much time you can rack up if you drag your feet. And if you deny that it happens just because I can’t name a specific time and place, you’re biased and you know it.
 
joes bar and grill said:
That would be a mileage gig right? if so he wasn't stealing time, maybe delaying freight but not stealing time.
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If you end up making freight late (holding up a guaranteed shipment) without a reasonable explanation then yes, you should be held accountable for that too. But it’s not stealing time if you aren’t paid by the hour. For example, we have a terminal on the west side of Atlanta. I get sent through there all the time coming back to ATL with empties on my run. I lose money going over there because I’m paid by the mile, but the freight has to get moved.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
You and I both know it’s not in the contract, but you and I both know it happens every day. Not always blatantly either (i.e. the 2 hour nap after lunch) but little bits at a time. It’s amazing how much time you can rack up if you drag your feet. And if you deny that it happens just because I can’t name a specific time and place, you’re biased and you know it.
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Bull ::shit::, you threw out there , now back it up or your just another liar, that thinks he can come on a union board and try and be a tough guy, go over to the XPO thread and hang out with the other two liars whip1 and highspeeds you'll fit right in. I didn't ask you for a time or place you threw it out there.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
If you end up making freight late (holding up a guaranteed shipment) without a reasonable explanation then yes, you should be held accountable for that too. But it’s not stealing time if you aren’t paid by the hour. For example, we have a terminal on the west side of Atlanta. I get sent through there all the time coming back to ATL with empties on my run. I lose money going over there because I’m paid by the mile, but the freight has to get moved.
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Delaying fright without a reason is a for lack of a better word punishable offense, I don't need you to explain it to me.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
You and I both know it’s not in the contract, but you and I both know it happens every day. Not always blatantly either (i.e. the 2 hour nap after lunch) but little bits at a time. It’s amazing how much time you can rack up if you drag your feet. And if you deny that it happens just because I can’t name a specific time and place, you’re biased and you know it.
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Napping? On an LTL route for ABF Freight? Who the HELL has time for that working for this company??? We’re understaffed and under equipped.
 
I'm sure everyone grabs a nap now and then,........Union or non-Union. Naps can be justified as safety related,...when needed. When they are built into your "work day schedule",.....that's just a bad habit,.....and theft.

I worked for ABF 25 years,....five on night-time dock. After getting 8 hours sleep at home,....I really didn't need a workday nap. When I ran the road,..it was different,....And , every nap I took on the road was needed,...sometimes badly......

Like I said,....when the dispatcher hinted that I "hang around" a certain area for a bit,.......I had my Armor-All, window cleaner, and newspaper......

And then there were days that I desperately ran from stop to stop,....always safely.......and took lunch right at the furthest edge of eligibility........

There is no "protection" of lazy guys in Union jobs...by Union officials. The only "protecting" being done is by the company themselves,....for whatever reason they have at the time......

It behooves company officials....non-Union AND Union alike,.......to create a myth of "lazy, protected Union guys"....Makes for great propaganda. And,.....if true,...no non-Union company would hire a former Union guy. We all know they..."celebrate"...hiring former Union guys......

There ain't a Union company out there that wouldn't want to shed it's Union contract and go non-Union....that includes ABF....

We've all seen them take profitable parts of ABF and....umm...."sell"..them off as non-Union divisions of ArcBest......ABF would drop the Teamsters so fast it would be stunning,..........IF.... they could retain the drivers and dock workers.....Apparently, the only thing objectionable with a Union workforce,....is just the contract itself..........Not the ( so-called lazy) workers....

We're arguing about who takes more "naps"...in an industry where sleep is an actual commodity......

And the company officials who monitor these boards are sitting back chuckling,....watching us trying to prove who is.....laziest....
 
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