Discussion in 'ABF Freight System' started by Why, Feb 16, 2018.
I mean...there's probably a less ignorant way to say that.
Sorry I didn’t realize there were woman on this site.
Good one, Ronnie.
I was laughing so hard I couldn’t press the “like” button.......
Dock and City drivers $35.00 a hour. Our pay rate of 2012 24.50. Here in 2018 pay rate of 2012 24.50.
Annual US Inflation Highest Since 2012 check it out. Every thing goes up but our pay stay flat.
And,.........in spite of us giving up a good bit of wages and vacations and going down to the SECOND lowest paid LTL company........we never got that BONUS!
Somehow, our management was not competent enough to achieve a low enough O.R. that we could get that bonus. ........We came close, like within point 5 .......but.....No Bonus For You!
Amazing..........every other company was paying more and giving more vacation, and still posting great O.R’s. How badly mismanaged are we?
Surely they didn’t get concessions,.......and then go on a spending spree,....building new corporate headquarters for ArcBest and Panther,......handing out executive bonuses ( ......and ignoring contract language barring executive bonuses....),buying sundry small other companies.........Did we pay for all that with concessions?
Anyone else remember V.P. Roy Slagle saying he would be “proud” to hand out the first bonus checks?........And then a couple of months later, he abruptly “retires” in the middle of the week........No word about bonuses from then on.......
And........somehow that fantastic formula for “cost of living” that got.........adjusted..........in the last contract? Yeah,....right. Under that formula, a gallon of milk would have to go to $25,..and a can of baked beans would be a “bargain “ at $10...........before we would get an extra 5 cents an hour in our paychecks.......
You think Ernie and our crack team of negotiators will........fix.........that? Or, at least go back to the cost-of-living formula that was in the 2008-2013 contract. At least we did get ONE cost-of-living raise in that contract.
Bro. Why is right..........Prices go up,.....wages go stagnant.
Unless......you’re in management......then you can roll in bonus cash like little piggys in mud...........
All of that makes sense. But demanding $35 an hour is a bit abrupt. You have to work your way forward, but that's the thing about concessions. You're never going to make that money back.
You can't swing a dead cat on the Trucking Boards Forum without hitting an ignorant Teamster!!!!! The reason you aren't getting raises is because of the legacy cost of paying for retirees who have never worked for your company!!!!!!! ABF pays $342 a week into CSPF, money an ABF driver will never see again. $545 a week into the New York conference of Teamsters pension fund, which just got slashed 30% from $5,000 to $3,500 and out at 30 years. Not to mention a dozen other Teamster pension funds that make CSPF look cheap. If you consider the total cost of an hours labor, "especially an hours labor at the "special Teamster locals" ", you will see that you are still quite well paid. Even if the fruits of your labor are not going to you. You should not be selfish, it is a virtue to pay for your retired brothers lifestyle. Just look what those retirees have given you!!!!!!!!
But, we'll be able to say, "Boy those were the days, man, it was good while it lasted, hey Joe....stick a little more wood on that fire and pass me a can of those sardines you just stole! We gotta get in that boxcar pretty quick, this freight train rolls anytime now."
I don't care for sardines, but do like Potted Meat and Vi-Ennies...
"Market forces" means all LTL compensation packages taken into consideration when study is conducted. In a nutshell,like it or not, we are in this together! I may be employed without collective bargaining agreement,but the IBT represented drivers package has direct correlation with my own.I for one support the strike vote.If union drivers don't prosper we will all be in the same boat as OTR drivers soon!
Roughboy. well said I work for ABF as a road driver now, in recent years works for a non -union carrier...Union carriers set the standards for everyone in the ( market place). These non union carriers try to pay union wage without being in the union . I work in an at will state on labor, Non union carriers change the rules daily, could be your insurance , wages or a silly camera looking at you. They are ok looking in front of truck ,but not at me. Also do not forget about the silly write ups by the new safety man or new supervisor trying to look good to management. I like being in the union because we have everything in writing. RULES,PAY,VACATION , CAMERAES IN TRUCKS, HOLIDAYS , SICK DAYS, TIME OFF, RULES THE WAY WE OPERATE DAILY IN DISPATCH and THE RETIREMENT MONEY THAT TEAMSTERS GET. Even though fund is in trouble, Many TEAMSTERS have draws monthly checks long after retirement. TEAMSTERS SET THE QUALITY OF LIVING FOR LIFESTYLE IN TRUCKING. Because of the TEAMSTERS trucking and lifestyles are better today.
Ouch!.....that dead cat was pretty stiff.....
I am a retired Teamster,....who is a Poster Boy for what they call "orphans". I worked for Gateway, Motor Freight, Maislin, Mason-Dixon, Werner-Continental, Hall's, Automobile Transport, Nu-Car Carriers, and M & G Convoy.
All of those companies paid into the pension fund for the time I was employed by them. When I wasn't,.....they didn't. The time I got credited for was.....exactly,....the time I got paid into the fund by the companies. I don't see where I got ......anything,....I wasn't entitled to.
The flip side of "legacy" costs,....is that I have a......legacy....of being employed by Teamster companies who paid into the pension fund right up to when they went bankrupt.
Whether it was Deregulation,....or company mismanagement and malfeasance,.....is kind of beside the point, don't you think?
The IBT was more of a factor in the problems of the CSPF,.....than the employers were. By allowing key employers to....de-fund,.....the pension fund,....they literally threw a hand grenade into the finest pension system for working people in this country.
If you follow politics,.....you know that just about all Multi-Employer pension funds were flush with money up to about 2008. After that, the collapse.....some say "manufactured" collapse of Wall Street,....and the CRIMINAL lack of support from our Solons of Legislation in Congress crippled just about every fund out there.
Did we do anything wrong....as Teamsters?
It seems, though, that many people are trying to justify pension cuts by finding a "culprit".......and I guess the "culprit" is those of us Teamsters who worked for companies that went bankrupt. I think that's more "divide and conquer"...than anything else.
The problem with many pension funds,...is that they are "top-heavy" with older employees. That would be the fault of the employers and deregulation. If you notice,....there is No Program for training LTL drivers,....hasn't been one since Deregulation. All any employer had to do was wait for the next LTL bankruptcy,....and ,...there you go! A new batch of new hires, ....trained and ready to go....Why waste money on an apprentice program, like EVERY OTHER industry?
Because of that employer short-sightedness,......our pension funds are looking at massive outlays in the next 10 years. Even during the last contract talks, ABF admitted that 75% of their employees were within 5 years of retirement..The employers brought that on themselves,....and now they're looking for a "scapegoat" to blame THEIR actions on.........Don't fall for it........
The "good" out of all this,.....is that once the large group of elderly employees,....is digested through that Large Python of the pension fund...( if I may be so crude...)...is that, demographically,.....the Pension funds should have a relatively long period of relatively long-term employees that the employers would be paying for,....long-term. That would stabilize just about all Defined-Benefit Multi-Employer plans.
So,......you can see the employer's desperation in trying to...."cripple"....these funds once and for all......If they don't do it now,......the funds will recover and be just as strong as ever.
Let's not forget our republican controlled congress who squashed the Butch Lewis Act. It had 148 cosponsors in the house yet the ranking republicans wouldn't even allow it to the floor for debate. Democrats called it a revenue neutral trust fund and republicans called it a bailout. Republicans along with corporations want to eliminate defined benefit pension funds. The new commission on pensions had better come up with a solution or the PBCG won't be able to handle all the pension funds that default. Then the so called bailout will be a lot bigger.
Hello, Brother Crystal,....Long Time No See!
How's things in the Sunny South?
You are right..........Since this is not a political board,.....I will say that there is a Certain Political Party, who are more beholden to their corporate benefactors than they are to the voters in their districts.
And since unemployment is at a 9 year low,......and the labor market it tight.....what that means to Big Corporations is that all social safety nets have to be wrecked,....or, at least , de-funded.
If you can cut back on pensions,.....raise the age for Social security,.....cut back Medicare,..........eliminate affordable health insurance for people without an employer....i.e.:...RETIRED people,........this will force more people back into the Labor pool,..........and when there are more people needing a job,....wages get cut.
That's why Wall Street has a bad day every time the monthly Jobs Report comes out.....Less unemployed means more people hired means less desperate job-seekers means......Higher Wages.....
A Certain Political Party has no interest in ......fixing....pensions.......That same Political Party had NO trouble bailing out Wall Street's private investment companies when the mud got too deep in that particular pigpen.........
And,......our pension fund problems were SOLELY created by the piggies on Wall Street playing games they shouldn't have been playing,.....and VIOLATING trust and morality.
The fund is still going to go broke, regardless of who is to blame. As such the cuts need to be made now. The fact is the mandatory pension increases dictated by the pension protection act of 2006 have significantly cut back on raises for ABF drivers. Hence they all want to go on strike, even if it kills ABF. Losing another major contributor will just kill CSPF that much earlier. Canary it is time you put active employees and the Teamsters Union's interest in front of your own.
Canary if all of the bankrupt companies you worked for paid in enough to fund your pension. Why was it necessary for congress to pass the pension protection act of 2006. Which you know 2006 predates the great market meltdown of 2008. The mandatory pension increases of the PPA of 2006 have significantly lowered ABF drivers wages. Also Canary the expert pension witness of NUCPP stated, CSPF troubles are the result of large retroactive pension increases to employees whos employers have gone bankrupt. Collectively Canary how much in withdraw penalties did your former employers stiff CSPF for? ABF drivers will always have sub par wages as long as they are saddled with the legacy cost of orphans. Partition CSPF now, let the PBGC pay orphan pensions.
The Pension Protection Act of 2006 allowed Multi-Employer plans the ability to amortize further the amount of money financed used in short-term stock and bond transactions............basically the same as the Pension Protection Act of 2002 , which provided amortization relief for.......Single Employer plans only.
Safeguards and levels were put in place in the PPA of 2006 ,.......because at the time , Single Employer plans were experiencing a 30% default rate,.........as opposed to the Multi-Employer plan default rates of less than 5%. The argument was that they may be needed.....” in the future....”
Sure enough,.......2008 Wall Street excesses brought on the need for cutoff levels for Multi-Employer plans.......and the need to declare to the IRS when projected funding dropped below certain levels.
And then the Omnibus Bill of 2010......really “screwed the pooch”.....if I can use the technical term. No longer are retirees......exempt......from pension cuts. We do get the ability to.......vote.......on our fate, though.......instead of having to accept what the Trustees impose .....without a say-so in the proceedings.
So,.....my future as a retiree is inextricably intertwined with the active employees, whether I,.....or you,....like it.
By the way,......one of my sons is a Teamster in the same Pension Fund as ABF. It’s not the CSPF,.......but it has roughly the same financial troubles.
I think you would agree that I still have “ skin in the game”.
And yet,.....I still think that ABF employees should take a hardline stance with the company. And,.........I believe that mandatory pension increases have little to do with employee pay raises.
Of course, the company would have us believe otherwise. Not that they would.....lie ........to us, would they?
Ahh...........and throw those old superannuated Teamsters to the wolves.......Who needs them, anyway?
The reason I stuck with Teamster companies is because I was promised a pension.....a good one,.......if I met the requirements. What,...exactly,....is the crime I committed that I should be denied a Teamster pension?
I am going to take it as granted,.......that you are many years away from pension age,.........and that you are worried about the future viability of the fund you’re in.
Rightfully so, Brother.........BUT.......you’ve got to be careful whose......”advice”.......you’re getting as far as keeping your pension fund afloat. There are company forces out there that have been trying to shed Teamster pension obligations.......for at least 4 contracts that I can think of....
That’s decades, Brother........Companies HATE defined-benefit plans,...and have been maneuvering and lobbying to destroy them all through those decades.......
Remember,........if you remove from that fund........you sabotage that fund. The companies would like nothing better than to have ourselves do in the funds. What a great public-relations shot to tell all and sundry, that there is no reason to be a Teamster if you can’t get a good pension.
There are Bills in Congress that can fix most of our pension problems. The Sherrod-Brown Act , for one........Senator Casey in Pennsylvania has made a few common-sense proposals.....
All these things are buried in committee.........until there is a change in the ruling political climate.......(....another case of Americans voting against their best interests, and choosing Style over Substance....)
There’s a reason Unions are synonymous with Solidarity. You don’t throw....anyone....to the wolves for your own personal benefit.
Something else you said in there about “large retroactive pension increases” to retirees whose companies had gone bankrupt.
Hmmmmm............All I got was a careful accounting of EXACTLY the amount of cumulative time between ALL the companies I had worked for. I didn’t get anything..........”extra”. That was the beauty of Multi-Employer plans in that an individual Teamster didn’t get hurt , AS LONG as he got another Teamster job.......even if one,...or several.....of his employers went bankrupt.
And if you go non-Union........your pension is frozen at that time and benefit level.........until you reach retirement age. And then you retire at the benefit level of when you left the Teamsters.
Ahhh.........what are these “ large retroactive pension increases”,.......and where can I sign up for them?
I think you....might be leaning in a little too close to that dispatch window, Brother......
Why are we swinging dead cats? That doesn't seem sanitary.