Start the Picketline

Discussion in 'ABF Freight System' started by Why, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Bubba Gump

    Bubba Gump Active Member

    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    136
    Canary, the difference
    Canary, the difference between you and I is. When you see a canary in the mine laying at the bottom of its cage. You see a sleeping canary. I on the other side see a dead canary. After bankrupting 9 companies don't you think there might have been a problem with how much your labor was costing those companies? You must have went to Wikipedia to look up PPA of 2006, your regurgitation of the facts was gibberish. You continually complain about companies being aloud to leave pension funds. what does it matter if the 9 bankrupt companies you worked for paid in enough for your pension? When UPS left CSPF they paid a 6.1 billion withdraw penalty. The nine companies you worked for stiffed the pension fund for their withdraw penalties. Which leaves us back to ABF whos employees have to pay for the 9 withdraw penalties your former employer failed to pay. I'm a little curious why you are egging on ABF employees to strike when you need them to pay debts your former employer failed to pay. Call me crazy it does not appear to make sense. And by the way Canary, 38 year teamster, which is more than most of you retirees who left the work force as soon as you could. After bankrupting 9 companies in your case.
     
    J Adkins likes this.
  2. 6PakAbs

    6PakAbs Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    407
    Bubba, ouch! Is your office on the same floor as Judy's or Tim's???
     
    icuicp and LTLAnonymous like this.
  3. LTLAnonymous

    LTLAnonymous Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    631
    Even ASSUMING a coward such as you is a driver and not an anti-union company plant, if you'd spent any kind of time in the industry (as a driver), you'd know about a thing called deregulation.

    "But why would we talk about something that happened 38 years ago???"

    Well, if you'd give me a chance to talk rather than so loudly gazing at your own bellybutton and then going to your fellow officeworker friends and high fiving over the Catalina wine mixer...

    Deregulation made it possible for trucking companies to start the race toward the bottom. It happened almost IMMEDIATELY in truckload for a variety of reasons, and that Libertarian/Republican wet dream of fair market competition has yielded wages of 26-40 cpm for several decades now, INFLATION BE DAMNED. And if you don't like it, you can take your ass back to the ghetto. We knew you didn't have the WORK ETHIC to be no TRUCK DRIVIN HAND.

    And the same will happen to LTL once the EVIL UNION LTL COMPANIES go under while you gleefully rub your mediocre abs and oddly feminine nipples.

    What makes LTL work...HARDER, or more specialized, or more deserving of the exorbitant pay you currently enjoy? Being on call? Big deal. You're home every day. This :shit: should pay... somewhere between... let's say...not quite as low as Werner...so between Swift and Heartland. Because boss man said so. Because there are no union companies to compare to. Because :censored: you, that's why.

    And I'm not saying you're undeserving of the money you make. LTL work pays the bare minimum trucking in GENERAL should pay. But if it happened to truckload, why are you exempt? You sleep in your bed every night. Truckload guys stay out 6 weeks at a time to make what you make. They're the real heroes, right?

    Let's hope those union companies stick around to let your CEOs know what they can get away with, huh?
     
    30yearman, Trucker 206 and 6PakAbs like this.
  4. LTLAnonymous

    LTLAnonymous Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    631
    And Canary is one of the most knowledgeable, level-headed people around here. He is someone you should definitely be listening to, because he knows what the deal is. It's not often you get to talk to someone with his level of experience. It benefits everyone to shut up and listen to him.
     
  5. 6PakAbs

    6PakAbs Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    407
    Amen, Brother! Life must be getting testy in "The Fart" with a deadline so near! Judy has all her trolls monitoring this board and the other one ....I never post over there, only read. A lot of my brothers over there never post on TB anymore (not sure if banned or what), but I want to keep kind of low...So Judy, BRING IT ON !
     
    Trucker 206 and LTLAnonymous like this.
  6. Bubba Gump

    Bubba Gump Active Member

    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    136
    I'm a real teamster, not an ass kisser who runs with the herd, I've been thrown under the bus by Hoffas people, Teamsters United, NLRB and the company. I still have a job because a good Teamster takes the high road and is honest. Jimmy carter a DEMOCRAT deregulated the trucking, railroad and the airlines. Taking away millions of UNION JOBS !!!!!!!! Strange that mindless Teamsters can only remember when Reagan fired 10,000 air traffic controllers who where not allowed by law to strike. Bill Clinton and Barak Obama, both Democrats with majorities in both houses of congress, with a filibuster proof senate did nothing for Labor. Barak Obama could have bailed out Americas pension funds, toilet paper would have been more valuable than the paper it was printed on. The only way ABF drivers are going to get the raises they deserve is if PBGC partitions MEPF's. Which would drop orphans down to $35.75 per year and it would bankrupt PBGC. Or congress passes a law which allows companies to put their retirement contributions in new funds without paying the withdraw penalty. You should be getting this information from others, but they have their own political objectives they are trying to accomplish. Hopefully when ABF and YRC Teamsters go on strike, drive their companies into bankruptcy, their customers go to UPS freight, a Teamster company that has a single employer pension fund. Wake UP reality sucks, but you can not run or ignore it.
     
  7. 6PakAbs

    6PakAbs Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    407
    yep, in the Penthouse @ The Fart
     
    LTLAnonymous likes this.
  8. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

    Messages:
    4,104
    Likes Received:
    5,332
    I'll stand by my ....."interpretation".....of the PPA of 2006. What you see as "Wikipedia gibberish",.....was my attempt at straightening out your facts.

    I think it's not in our best interests for companies to leave,....partition,....or any other configuration they may want to invoke on our pension plans. There are roughly 150 different pension plans associated with ABF,.....some are defined-contribution,...most are defined-benefit. ABF pays the same price for all. The individual trustees of these funds make the fiduciary decisions. Some of the Teamster funds are doing really well.

    The 6.1 billion withdrawal penalty UPS paid to the CSPF,....was negotiated by our Teamster leaders. Under the ERISA of 1978,....that was the only way UPS could legally leave the Fund.. The 9 carriers I had worked for had fulfilled their monetary duties to the Fund I was in through proceedings in bankruptcy court. Those carriers had all dissolved by around 1990,....some at least 10 years before.

    My Pension fund,......the Joint Council #40 Fund in Western Penna. was actually running about 98% - 99% fully funded prior to 2008,.......so much so that our Fund had to start issuing a 13th check to retirees to prevent 100% funding. Under ERISA, once you reach 100% funding, your employer no longer has to pay the fund. That rule prevents pension funds from saving for the proverbial "rainy day",....like what happened in 2008.

    So,.....as you can plainly see,.....the bankruptcies of those 9 companies had been absorbed by our fund a good 18 years before there was a funding problem,........

    My pension is for 31 years,.....I have a nine year gap/ break-in-service where I didn't have an employer to pay into the fund. I was an O/O during that time. The bulk of my pension time,.......25 years,.....was with ABF.

    I understand your frustration, young man,.....about whether you might have a pension in the future. You've got to understand WHO is stoking those fears.

    As you can see,....some guys on here are a little"concerned" about exactly who you are...........Hey,....it's happened before with demonstrably company people trying to disrupt our board.

    But,.....you state that you are a working Teamster. I will give you the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.......

    In the meantime,.......go find a retiree or two in your Local,...and talk to him. There should be no ulterior motive there,.....unlike the company people,...who we all know,...have an "agenda"...for pensions.
     
  9. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

    Messages:
    4,104
    Likes Received:
    5,332


    Aw,.....Shucks!

    Yer makin' me Blush........
     
  10. Bubba Gump

    Bubba Gump Active Member

    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    136
    Mr. Canary, i must say you take liberties with the facts in your post. Let us get back to ABF raises. Specifically the cost of an hour of labor for an ABF driver as compared to a non union carrier, FEDEX freight for instance. As I'm sure you know, even though in your last post you deny this different teamster pension funds have vastly different amounts paid into their funds. These figures come directly from MPRA applications for benefit reductions. ABF pays CSPF $8.55 per hour,$17,784 per year, $13.63 per hour, $28,350 per year into New York conference Teamster pension fund. Canary could you have your friends at Teamster United provide total cost of an hour of labor(Pension, health care, vacation, days off, wages) for employees from the various pension funds. Most Teamsters do not know some of their brothers get considerably more in benefits than they do. For comparison provided several examples of cost of an hour of labor for several non union companies. Canary could you please tell me why this information isn't already out there. HOW CAN PEOPLE MAKE AN INFORMED VOTE WITH OUT HAVING ALL OF THE FACTS.
     
  11. 6PakAbs

    6PakAbs Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    407
    yep, working in the GO @ Fart Smith....labor department...how could he not be there ...he is a know it all
     
    LTLAnonymous likes this.
  12. SAC75

    SAC75 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    2,009
    Can you explain the fact that ABF seems to keep it in the black? YRC should be kicking the crap out of everyone but is not. Why is that? Corruption is my thought. Not disputing your numbers. Same ones I’ve seen for the last five years. If we were on an even playing field ABF would be killing EVERYONE!
     
    LTLAnonymous likes this.
  13. 6PakAbs

    6PakAbs Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    407
    IF life was candy and nuts, what a Merry Christmas it would be...level field? Back in the days it was even and everyone raked in the profits..but no more...this industry will never be the same, and the shenigans (sp?) that was pulled last time has made us bitter! So, ArcBest is trying to "level the playing field" by riding itself of the freight division and then farm out everything...so, Troll, take that back to Judy..
     
    LTLAnonymous and SAC75 like this.
  14. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

    Messages:
    4,104
    Likes Received:
    5,332
    Well,....you're really covering a wide field there. If you want to compare Union employees to non-Union employees,....the difference would be that non-Union companies pay as cheaply as the market/ labor pool will bear,....and will adjust their rate up or down without regard or input to their employee's lives or families.........See the Homestead Strike of 1892 as an extreme example of just that.......

    A union carrier will negotiate for the highest wage the market will bear,...reflecting what the employees,...( who actually do the work...)......feel their labor is worth. Comparing FedEx ,.....who would cut wages at moment's notice without regard to their existing employees,....to ABF,...whose employees are trying to build a career and stability,.....is the proverbial apples to oranges.

    By the way,...FedEx recently established a defined-benefit pension plan similar to Teamsters plans,...in the attempt to hire more drivers.........

    The pension and H & W rates are established in the Supplements of each area, and are specific to that area. For instance,.....here in W.Pa.,....Art.'s 49 and 50 are the pension and H & W sections of our contract. Since there are roughly 150 different benefit packages,....there are bound to be differences in ,.........what the COMPANY calls "cost per hour/year" of benefit packages. The master contract called for pension and H & W payments,......the individual Supplements decide how much and which fund gets what.

    I'm sure you remember the infamous change in the contribution rate last contract,...that the company proposed, and the Union approved? The company requested that the language say..."Up to a dollar" an hour,....instead of the traditional "dollar an hour" that had stood for at least 4 contracts. This allowed the company to "shortfall" more solvent plans,.....and kept costs higher for health care.

    The figures you're using from the MPRA,.....are established by the trustees of the troubled funds in question,....for THOSE SPECIFIC areas,......and comparing them is merely designed to foster envy between different Supplemental areas. Remember,......50, or so....years ago,...pension plans in different areas of the country started off with different figures,....based on the conditions in THAT SPECIFIC area,...That's why the figures aren't identical......Neither are the WORK conditions of each Supplement identical. That's why Supplements exist,.....to reflect the living and working conditions in each SPECIFIC AREA. And,.......that's why the Pension and H & W are in the Supplemental section of our contract. There is no "One Size Fits All" pension or H & W plan in the ABF NMFA.

    I'm glad you think I have friends at Teamsters United,.........I'll take all the friends I can get........I think, though,....that those of us, who READ and UNDERSTAND the contract realize just what I said above.....There has ALWAYS been differences in what gets contributed to which fund and where,....BASED on SPECIFIC AREAS.

    "Comparing" these different areas,.....is a company tactic . These figures from the MPRA applications,....are from troubled funds that are required to give the Pension Benefit Guarantee Insurance fund,.........the Government entity that will pick up the cost of these funds if they fail,.......an accounting of what the Trustees of these funds have agreed are the costs for that SPECIFIC AREA.

    I will agree with you..........how can people make an informed decision without the facts? But,.........a disclaimer.....

    As some in our current Government have said,....there are "alternative facts". Once again,.....Brother,.....you'd better check your sources. As we've seen last contract.....ArcBest upper management is not adverse to releasing "alternative facts" during contract negotiations,...to influence the gullible.
     
  15. 6PakAbs

    6PakAbs Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    407
    Sacs75..I didn't mean to reference you in this post...I meant it for Bubba Gump (Judy's Troll)
     
    SAC75 likes this.
  16. Trucker 206

    Trucker 206 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,111
    Likes Received:
    1,229
    ‘Crater’ was a Southern (aka anti-Union) Democrat. That pretty much voids that argument.
     
  17. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

    Messages:
    4,104
    Likes Received:
    5,332
    I think you meant "Carter", Brother............and although he was a Southern Democrat, his main problem was inexperience and an inability to stand up to corporate lobbyists,.....even though the Democrats had an almost 2 to 1 advantage in Congress. He "butted heads" with his own Party 5 times over Government funding.

    I think his.....heart.....was in the right place,.........he gave a very powerful and angry Law Day speech in Georgia before he was President,....in which he took law enforcement in the South to task as :censored:........kind of "bearding the lion"...in his own den, as it were.........

    But,....I think the corporate lobbyists took advantage of him in selling the idea of "deregulation" as .....good for the American people.

    To his...(...only, and miniscule...)....credit Teamster President Frank Fitzsimmons fought against deregulation. In 1980 President Roy Williams was caught bribing a Senator from Nevada to change his vote on deregulation. .....(....Long, exasperated sigh....).........

    If only the Teamsters,.....with their great power in 1980,.....had mobilized their members,....instead of resorting to their old...."tried'n'true".. tactics of bribes and strong-arm,......we might not have had deregulation.......

    At least......not until Ronald Reagan.
     
    00mustang and troubleman84 like this.
  18. Trucker 206

    Trucker 206 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,111
    Likes Received:
    1,229
    I did mean Carter, I purposely switched the letters around. It’s a thing I have. I’m easily entertained.
     
  19. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

    Messages:
    4,104
    Likes Received:
    5,332
    Ahhhh...........Semantic Cynicism...........10-4......
     
  20. Bubba Gump

    Bubba Gump Active Member

    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    136
    Canary, you can shovel the :shit:!!! I have never heard anyone excuse Carter of destroying organized labor the way you did. Carter who is our most intelligent president ever. An Annapolis graduate, pioneer in the nuclear powered Navy. Or according to you a spineless dolt !!!!! And what about Carters VETO PROOF CONGRESS, were they spineless dolts too? Let's get back to total compensation!!!!!! Fire off a Titan message to your man in the new York conference of Teamsters. Get the total cost of compensation for an ABF and FEDEX freight driver. I think you would be doing organized labor a great service by providing accurate information.
     

Share This Page