TForce | Teamsters Win Major Agreement at UPS Freight

steve5 said:
my comment was in refference to the notion that we could make the same wages as UPS.
Are there any other FREIGHT companies that pay UPS wages?....NO there aren't,as far as I know.
That being said,would we still pull freight at a much higher wage...without passing it on to the customer?...I doubt it....So what does that mean?...the customer will ship with someone else cheaper.


Let me ask this, why are some of the anti-union employees posting here won't sign for NMFA which LTL companys are already a part of, but they say they would support the Package contract if offered to us? If you say we couldn't compete if this was the case why is it the only way they would support representation? I said all along that NMFA is more than enough for me. I ask this respectfully.


A valid point.
I have also seen guys say they wouldn't sign cards...then later say they would if we could be in the parcel agreement...then try to say for unity and strength....more like dollars and cents.

If you have seen any of my previous posts,you will know that I am not on the fence wondering wich side to jump on.

I clearly have no interest in becoming a union member.

I was once a member of the IBEW,but that was when I was young and dumb, fresh out of high school....LOL
 
steve5 said:
A terminal up north that I run to every trip said the same thing, sleeper teams are taking trlrs on the weekend (obvously not on thier own, VA is telling them to). And some one is messing up the trlr pool. I singled out of three different terminals along with three other drivers. This used to be a big no no. You take two in you take two out. Not anymore I guess.


Another thing that doesn't help the trailer pool is with the re-branding....ya pull a new...or newly painted van into a terminal,and in most cases you pull pups out...which eventually gets evened back out,but it sucks when they tell you to grab empties...and there are none.

Last week I pulled pups into SBR and central bobtailed me to PHL for a set.
PHL had a pile of dollys,while the only dolly at SBR was the one I left there.

Once the re-branding is done,everything should be back to normal,but that will be a while.
 
UPSF_GLAD TO BE NON-UNION said:
Another thing that doesn't help the trailer pool is with the re-branding....ya pull a new...or newly painted van into a terminal,and in most cases you pull pups out...which eventually gets evened back out,but it sucks when they tell you to grab empties...and there are none.

Last week I pulled pups into SBR and central bobtailed me to PHL for a set.
PHL had a pile of dollys,while the only dolly at SBR was the one I left there.

Once the re-branding is done,everything should be back to normal,but that will be a while.
Dollies are another problem here in LAX, we seem to run out every night.

A valid point.
I have also seen guys say they wouldn't sign cards...then later say they would if we could be in the parcel agreement...then try to say for unity and strength....more like dollars and cents.

I'm just wondering if it is for personal reasons or its a company loyalty thing. If it is a co loyalty thing than any Union representation is out of the question you would think. This is just my opinion, but for the employee that is not for the union to want to skip the NMFA and vote for parcel shows greed.
 
steve5 said:
Dollies are another problem here in LAX, we seem to run out every night.

A valid point.
I have also seen guys say they wouldn't sign cards...then later say they would if we could be in the parcel agreement...then try to say for unity and strength....more like dollars and cents.

I'm just wondering if it is for personal reasons or its a company loyalty thing. If it is a co loyalty thing than any Union representation is out of the question you would think. This is just my opinion, but for the employee that is not for the union to want to skip the NMFA and vote for parcel shows greed.


In my opinion,wanting to be a union member period shows greed.

We currently are only half a cent per mile and (I think).50/hour less than NMFA.
We do need better break down and delay pay,but dont think it is worth bringing in the union to get those.

The M/C guys need to be brought up to our rate sooner than june 07 also.

Too bad we couldn't unite(UPSF Employee's) and say to the powers that be(UPS)....if you make all these things right,we won't sign cards.

But I won't be signing one regardless.
 
I expected this, I do have to say that even with the raise in 07 I will be making close to the same then that I did before the conversion. it will be about .06-.07 cpm more than now. Before edge I was making at least $50 each trip most of the time more per trip. .06x5000 mi = $300 low side of delay difference-$50x5 trips= $250. Does it look like I am being greedy? Its like them taking .06 cpm from you for a year or so and then giving it back. I'm just stating this to get out from under the greedy thing.
 
steve5 said:
I expected this, I do have to say that even with the raise in 07 I will be making close to the same then that I did before the conversion. it will be about .06-.07 cpm more than now. Before edge I was making at least $50 each trip most of the time more per trip. .06x5000 mi = $300 low side of delay difference-$50x5 trips= $250. Does it look like I am being greedy? Its like them taking .06 cpm from you for a year or so and then giving it back. I'm just stating this to get out from under the greedy thing.


In your case you are not being greedy.
You only want what you had...or at least what the rest of the company is making.
I would like to say I would stand beside you and sign a card if thats what it took to get what you deserve,but I don't think I could look at myself in the mirror,given my stance on unions.


My opening line in my last post is just my personal opinion about unions.....no matter what you get,its never enough.
 
UPSF_GLAD TO BE NON-UNION said:
In your case you are not being greedy.
You only want what you had...or at least what the rest of the company is making.
I would like to say I would stand beside you and sign a card if thats what it took to get what you deserve,but I don't think I could look at myself in the mirror,given my stance on unions.


My opening line in my last post is just my personal opinion about unions.....no matter what you get,its never enough.
Greed is highly subject to opinion...Is Leo greedy is Bill G. at Microsoft greedy...Getting paid for what you do or getting your share of the companies profits.....For me it is a respect thing....I'm not here for my health...And want truly the best from both companies to be present in our pay....You all would benefit greatly too.....
 
greezy trucker said:
Greed is highly subject to opinion...Is Leo greedy is Bill G. at Microsoft greedy...Getting paid for what you do or getting your share of the companies profits.....For me it is a respect thing....I'm not here for my health...And want truly the best from both companies to be present in our pay....You all would benefit greatly too.....


This is one of the things I don't agree with as far as the union mentality.
We already make a good wage for what we do...I mean sure,I would love to make $500,000 a year...but I'm not a doctor or an lawyer...I'm a truck driver.

A company is in business to make money and show a profit.
People see a company making money and buy stock in that company.They risk their own money to purchase stock.If there in it for the long haul,they expect to be paid a dividend every year on the stock they own.
If a company doesn't make a profit,there is very little dividend...and not a very inticive stock to buy.If no one buys stock,it has very little value...LOL...
I'm no economics major,but there is more to it than just....hey,we showed 3 billion dollars profit last year...why don't you give us a big raise.


I have friends that work in construction(family business),I have other friends that work for them and they are always complaining about...the owner buying a new vechicle...or the owner not being there every day on the job...or whatever...I say,you make good money right?..why yes,I do alright...well,ok then...as long as they are paying you a good wage to do the job they hired you for stop complaining.

The reason you go into business is to make money and do what you want.
As an employee,you are never going to make enough money,and no matter how much of a raise you get every year,its never enough because most of us spend up to or close to what we make.

I guess my point is if you want to share in the profits,start your own business or work somewhere that has profit sharing.
But if your going to work for someone else in an unskilled proffession you don't dictate what the wage will be.

And we do make a pretty good wage(not that I couldn't use more),but I see ads all the time for trucking jobs starting at $.28/mile...as if thats a good wage.Some of those guys aren't getting near the miles we do.

OK,I'm done now...LOL..I could go on,but I'll stop...LOL
 
UPSF_GLAD TO BE NON-UNION said:
In your case you are not being greedy.
You only want what you had...or at least what the rest of the company is making.
I would like to say I would stand beside you and sign a card if thats what it took to get what you deserve,but I don't think I could look at myself in the mirror,given my stance on unions.


My opening line in my last post is just my personal opinion about unions.....no matter what you get,its never enough.
My thought and tell me if it sounds ridiculous, but the only way that I see getting what I lost back is a contract. Unless I wait untill Jul 07, I don't think the company will give it back on thier own do you?

What do you think about this.- Do you think if in the first place they put us up to your cpm/hourly on a graduated scale like they are doing now, then put you guys up to our delay pay on the same graduated scale, that they would have had to worry about the union in the first place? Now the way they are going about it and if the union is voted in they are going to pay more than if they just simply did as I stated. Do you think that it would have made Leo and Gordon look alot better if they kept the employees satisfied than having meetings, putting out DVD's and having all this union talk? And believe me they would not put out a DVD and had meetings if the majority was pro-company. Simply stated, all they had to do is satisfy the majority and they failed.
 
steve5 said:
My thought and tell me if it sounds ridiculous, but the only way that I see getting what I lost back is a contract. Unless I wait untill Jul 07, I don't think the company will give it back on thier own do you?

What do you think about this.- Do you think if in the first place they put us up to your cpm/hourly on a graduated scale like they are doing now, then put you guys up to our delay pay on the same graduated scale, that they would have had to worry about the union in the first place? Now the way they are going about it and if the union is voted in they are going to pay more than if they just simply did as I stated. Do you think that it would have made Leo and Gordon look alot better if they kept the employees satisfied than having meetings, putting out DVD's and having all this union talk? And believe me they would not put out a DVD and had meetings if the majority was pro-company. Simply stated, all they had to do is satisfy the majority and they failed.

I shouldn't say this since everyone here probably thinks I'm a company man(I am not...just outspokenly anti-union),but in their defense...the union made a huge effort to organize them(I wasn't here then) before...and since one of the best and largest union companies bought us,they probably thought they were doing the right thing...given the fact that the union wants to try to organize us again.

I did think back when we had the mandatory meetings about insurance they would unvail a new pay package to discourage people from wanting to organize...but that didn't happen.

So yes,you are correct,had they made an effort to satisfy the majority,the teamsters efforts would probably fail again.

They could have...and stilll have the opportunity to fix what needs fixed to make the employee's happy and be non-union.

Let me make a phone call....LOL....yeah right...LOL
 
Thats right if you are anti union you are automatically a company man.Thats funny its almost as if we do not have a mind of our own....Good luck with those thoughts thats what they thought last time.......And look what what it got them?
 
UPSF Glad to be Non-union I notice you thinks it's ok for the MC guys to be unhappy. But when a O guy is unhappy he's a complainer etc,etc. Like I posted before we had our own cuts a few yrs ago. Nobody responded. Maybe you were not here. We are d/h for less money. Mileage from terminal to hotel used to be paid. Sleeper teams used to get payed better for fueling. Disgruntled employees or employees doing some of the same duties for less money?
 
UPSF_GLAD TO BE NON-UNION said:
This is one of the things I don't agree with as far as the union mentality.
We already make a good wage for what we do...I mean sure,I would love to make $500,000 a year...but I'm not a doctor or an lawyer...I'm a truck driver.

A company is in business to make money and show a profit.
People see a company making money and buy stock in that company.They risk their own money to purchase stock.If there in it for the long haul,they expect to be paid a dividend every year on the stock they own.
If a company doesn't make a profit,there is very little dividend...and not a very inticive stock to buy.If no one buys stock,it has very little value...LOL...
I'm no economics major,but there is more to it than just....hey,we showed 3 billion dollars profit last year...why don't you give us a big raise.


I have friends that work in construction(family business),I have other friends that work for them and they are always complaining about...the owner buying a new vechicle...or the owner not being there every day on the job...or whatever...I say,you make good money right?..why yes,I do alright...well,ok then...as long as they are paying you a good wage to do the job they hired you for stop complaining.

The reason you go into business is to make money and do what you want.
As an employee,you are never going to make enough money,and no matter how much of a raise you get every year,its never enough because most of us spend up to or close to what we make.

I guess my point is if you want to share in the profits,start your own business or work somewhere that has profit sharing.
But if your going to work for someone else in an unskilled proffession you don't dictate what the wage will be.

And we do make a pretty good wage(not that I couldn't use more),but I see ads all the time for trucking jobs starting at $.28/mile...as if thats a good wage.Some of those guys aren't getting near the miles we do.

OK,I'm done now...LOL..I could go on,but I'll stop...LOL
I understand what you are saying.....But you only pay less if you treat your people like kings and queens or they leave.....Or you pay them better than everyone else and treat them how you want.....As a company you can't have it both ways......
 
UPSF_GLAD TO BE NON-UNION said:
my comment was in refference to the notion that we could make the same wages as UPS.
Are there any other FREIGHT companies that pay UPS wages?....NO there aren't,as far as I know.
That being said,would we still pull freight at a much higher wage...without passing it on to the customer?...I doubt it....So what does that mean?...the customer will ship with someone else cheaper.


And yes,UPS currently makes billions of dollars with union labor now,but there is also more money in the parcel business,and only three major competitors...of which only one of those is union(USPS).
FedEx is not,and DHL is not.

And their not going to dip into their parcel profits to keep UPSF running at a loss.

But then again,it is the union mentality that a company isn't supposed to make a profit...they are supposed to give it to the employees and break even....LOL...Kinda defeats the purpose of owning a business.

It's quite obvious you never heard Mike E. and how UPS plans to make the new freight division successfull. UPS has tons of political clout . These people can get freight without trying ,I have seen it first hand. With that said, all of the reorganizing in operations taking place in this company will start to shine 2-5 years after the buyout. It is the magic rule for any company.

If you think for 1 second that UPS will allow us to sink you are sadly mistaken. After all the name is now on the side of the equipment. With thier dedication to customer assistance, ontime delivery, and customer satisfaction, We will be there soon!!! Union or not!!! And as soon as we go union, if it happens , They will also turn up the volume on us. It is my belief it would have come to this anyway.

So in essance if this company runs like the mother company, we could actully make the same amounts.

My new jobclass is "Freight Redundancy Specialist".

This Person will have the ability
to tolerate mentally challenged dispatchers
who excell in the art of ignorance redundancy,
and can withstand driving 18 wheelers at
top end speeds in circles.
 
Being out of work for 10 months gave me a lot of time to post, ask questions, and answer questions. Now after being back to work (tomorrow completes my 3rd week), instead of quoting and answering each post individually, all I have to say is this.....

Whether you are defiantly anti-union or gung ho pro-union, make your decissions based on facts and knowledge. Don't go with a gut reaction or past ill feelings, "because that's how it was in the past". Don't let me or your boss be the one that makes a case for voting one way or the other. Be certain that the choice you make is the best choice for you, your coworkers, and your family. Just remember, foresight is sometimes blurry, but hindsight is always 20/20. Think long and hard about the decisions that are ahead of you, and be certain that the choice you make will be a choice that you can live with. You really don't want to be in a position a year or 2 from now where you say, "gee, maybe I should have voted the other way".
 
Accelerator said:
It's quite obvious you never heard Mike E. and how UPS plans to make the new freight division successfull. UPS has tons of political clout . These people can get freight without trying ,I have seen it first hand. With that said, all of the reorganizing in operations taking place in this company will start to shine 2-5 years after the buyout. It is the magic rule for any company.

If you think for 1 second that UPS will allow us to sink you are sadly mistaken. After all the name is now on the side of the equipment. With thier dedication to customer assistance, ontime delivery, and customer satisfaction, We will be there soon!!! Union or not!!! And as soon as we go union, if it happens , They will also turn up the volume on us. It is my belief it would have come to this anyway.

So in essance if this company runs like the mother company, we could actully make the same amounts.

My new jobclass is "Freight Redundancy Specialist".

This Person will have the ability
to tolerate mentally challenged dispatchers
who excell in the art of ignorance redundancy,
and can withstand driving 18 wheelers at
top end speeds in circles.


I agree with you...But if you are a MC guy at a small terminal you might be lucky to make it that long....We are losing more and more of our runs that were working just fine....Now we are just a statistic waiting to happen....Call me a whiner but I don't like seeing my friends lose their jobs or live in fear whether or not they will have one next week....And yeah I know if you don't like it go some where else or there are other companies,blah blah......
 
greezy trucker said:
I agree with you...But if you are a MC guy at a small terminal you might be lucky to make it that long....We are losing more and more of our runs that were working just fine....Now we are just a statistic waiting to happen....Call me a whiner but I don't like seeing my friends lose their jobs or live in fear whether or not they will have one next week....And yeah I know if you don't like it go some where else or there are other companies,blah blah......
I'm with you, Greezy. I don't know how long we can continue to pull empties before they pull the plug here. There won't be much left if it all takes 2 or 3 years.:shrug:
 
UPSF_GLAD TO BE NON-UNION said:
Too bad we couldn't unite(UPSF Employee's) and say to the powers that be(UPS)....if you make all these things right,we won't sign cards.
You can't bargain with a giant who has no obligation to bargain with you unless you sign the cards.....it's as simple as that. Don't let some old, bad feelings hold you back....let it go and move forward, this is your chance to unite and tell UPS whatever you want to....and, it's the only way. Think about it.
 
stldude44 said:
You can't bargain with a giant who has no obligation to bargain with you unless you sign the cards.....it's as simple as that. Don't let some old, bad feelings hold you back....let it go and move forward, this is your chance to unite and tell UPS whatever you want to....and, it's the only way. Think about it.

Well yeah....they can make ALL things right for awhile.....and then go back to their old ways and take what they want back!.........THAT is why you have a collective bargaining agreement......bothe sides know what is expected of them, ot they would not sign it to begen with!......KK
 
Kennesaw Kid said:
Well yeah....they can make ALL things right for awhile.....and then go back to their old ways and take what they want back!.........THAT is why you have a collective bargaining agreement......bothe sides know what is expected of them, ot they would not sign it to begen with!......KK
True, they could do that. I just figured that UPS had no intention of making the improvements that people were really hoping for concerning delay/breakdown pay....and showed that when those improvements were absent from the new package that was rolled out a few months ago. Here are some words to a song that really fits this situation...it was by Richard Marx in the 80's about the music industry......and it fits so well right now in this situation......

It don't mean nothin', the words that they say,
It don't mean nothin', these games that people play.
It don't mean nothin', no victim, no crime,
It don't mean nothin' till you sign it on the dotted line.
 
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