Holland | Trucking company expands apprenticeship program to solve worker shortage
- Thread starter Freightmaster1
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skullcramp
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It's Holland getting a jump on driverless trucks.
Holland/YRC still hasn’t figured it out. / excuse me they have, but will not change. If wages would have stayed consistent with the cost of living(especially in higher taxed markets) they would not be having the problems that they are facing recruiting new drivers that have experience. They would have retained drivers such as myself who finally just had enough of the BS coming from all angles and yes that included the Union as well.
It is not only the wages it is the retirement aspect as well. With no pension and no matching for a 401, you do not gain the long term commitment from a drivers perspective as you once had.
We who frequent this forum and those of us that have/or have any time in this industry know the problems occurring at Holland And YRC as a whole. Taking the dive and racing to the bottom that I see occurring and that has occurred with attempting, not to retain the experienced driver, but to focus on a program that all the companies such as Swift, JB, Schneider, Etc... has only goes to show that they will not be be the leaders that they once were.
The so called apprentice program is not like an apprentice program in any other trade. To get to the status of an Union Driver you and I and all who came before had to pay our dues so to say. I get they need warm bodies and that the pool of warm bodies wanting to jump into this industry is waning, but this is not aiming that occurred overnight. It is just another example of poor management and planing. Unfortunately the doors are not being bumrushed by applicants anylonger. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out why!
One of the harder decisions that I ever made was to walk away from Holland, I still have a good long time of service left in me that they could have utilized, but when I gave my notice the TM basically shrugged shoulders . Didn’t ask a reason why, or what they may do to retain me. Mind you I was a runner, yep a runner locally. I know not the “Union Way”, hell I was told to slow down you are making us look bad by many guys and I was super vocal about the lazy PITAS that even though they were making the same as me somehow it took two hours longer for them to get the same work done. I was vocal about the pieces of crap equipment that we drove everyday, I was vocal about how the Union seemed to only protect those who shouldn’t have been protected, you know the ones who were caught on tape sleeping but kept their jobs. Hell I was vocal about the way the company was being run from the local level to the upper management... why was I so vocal? Not because I am an a hole, but because I cared!
I cared, my personality fault to a tee! I cared because we were once the elite, we made it we were once the top dogs the rest of the industry looked up to. It was hard to get hired here back then and you had to sit on the bottom for a long time because guys didn’t leave. Well guys I know why the vets are trying to ride out their last few years and “waiting to see what the contract” has in store for them, but to be honest it’s just going to be another song and dance pony show protecting the company and the Unions interests not yours.
It is not only the wages it is the retirement aspect as well. With no pension and no matching for a 401, you do not gain the long term commitment from a drivers perspective as you once had.
We who frequent this forum and those of us that have/or have any time in this industry know the problems occurring at Holland And YRC as a whole. Taking the dive and racing to the bottom that I see occurring and that has occurred with attempting, not to retain the experienced driver, but to focus on a program that all the companies such as Swift, JB, Schneider, Etc... has only goes to show that they will not be be the leaders that they once were.
The so called apprentice program is not like an apprentice program in any other trade. To get to the status of an Union Driver you and I and all who came before had to pay our dues so to say. I get they need warm bodies and that the pool of warm bodies wanting to jump into this industry is waning, but this is not aiming that occurred overnight. It is just another example of poor management and planing. Unfortunately the doors are not being bumrushed by applicants anylonger. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out why!
One of the harder decisions that I ever made was to walk away from Holland, I still have a good long time of service left in me that they could have utilized, but when I gave my notice the TM basically shrugged shoulders . Didn’t ask a reason why, or what they may do to retain me. Mind you I was a runner, yep a runner locally. I know not the “Union Way”, hell I was told to slow down you are making us look bad by many guys and I was super vocal about the lazy PITAS that even though they were making the same as me somehow it took two hours longer for them to get the same work done. I was vocal about the pieces of crap equipment that we drove everyday, I was vocal about how the Union seemed to only protect those who shouldn’t have been protected, you know the ones who were caught on tape sleeping but kept their jobs. Hell I was vocal about the way the company was being run from the local level to the upper management... why was I so vocal? Not because I am an a hole, but because I cared!
I cared, my personality fault to a tee! I cared because we were once the elite, we made it we were once the top dogs the rest of the industry looked up to. It was hard to get hired here back then and you had to sit on the bottom for a long time because guys didn’t leave. Well guys I know why the vets are trying to ride out their last few years and “waiting to see what the contract” has in store for them, but to be honest it’s just going to be another song and dance pony show protecting the company and the Unions interests not yours.
Those of you that came through my terminal or worked there most likely know who I am and some of the reasons I left last year. Especially since I was so vocal!
Well I would like to share something, this last Monday I had in my car an logistics officer from YRCW going to the airport headed to corporate. It was a 45 minute ride and he and I had a long talk about the health of this company, the labor force and the lack of, the problems moving freight and the reasons why I left as well as why even though I have 25 yrs plus driving experience and still have my CDL that I most likely would never drive a truck again.
I pointed out to him that when I left in 2017 that I was making the same or near the same that I was making in 2000, but without the retirement perspective. I pointed out to him that the truck I was driving in the end was close to 17 yrs old. And that due to the lower wage(give backs) that I can name over 7 guys including myself that not only lost homes, but marriages as well due in part to the sacrifices that we members gave up. I said to him that all we are treated like is a number on a spread sheet and not the Humans that we are.
I used that time in the confines of my car to vocalize the concerns, experiences, problems, and expectations that all of you have. Those were the same ones I had when I left and honestly the same ones I still to this day 11 months later have for all the friends and foes I left behind at Holland.
He asked me one big question, “why did you leave and why are you doing what you do now”. My answer has many aspects, but sanity was first and foremost! You should not wake up everyday absolutely hating what you do! I told him at one time I looked forward to going into work and was proud to drive for Holland, but it grinds you down and once the incentive was lost and they were bringing in guys with little experience, paying them the same as the vets, but the work expectation was at a lower bar for them it became impossible to be motivated as I once was.
Another aspect was when he asked why I am doing what I am doing now. You see it was 4 am and I was driving him to the airport doing Uber. I went on to explain to him that I am currently averaging $24.75 an hr even after overhead doing it and clearing around $800 some weeks $1000 plus depending if I do bar close. now that is not the average for most drivers and I am in a large market so I do have an advantage. I choose my hrs and have a ton of flexibility. It has taken a while and a lot of trial and error to get to that average. So no it’s not for everyone!
He said to me but you don’t have the benefits or retirement. I pointed out to him at Holland I lost my Retirement in 09’, the benefits I was paying for with the giveback and I am blessed my wife has similar coverage. I invested the entire time at Holland and lived below my means unlike most who need the OT. But I said to him it is a crying shame that I had to leave for my sanity, that it’s a crying shame that I can drive a Uber and make just about the same as I did driving for Holland without 70 percent of the stress and if I want to spend the afternoon with my wife and kids I can.
I also pointed out to him that it’s going to take two to three guys to replace the one that they are loosing now and over the next five to ten years as guys start to get their 25 in. It’s bleak going into 19’ guys he admitted that to me, he also and I will share only this, that they are looking to really address the different markets. They are aware that a guy living in Chicago or any of the larger cost of living markets can’t make it on the current scale compared to someone in a more rural area. He did say something is being looked into in those regards.
He tipped by the way.
Well I would like to share something, this last Monday I had in my car an logistics officer from YRCW going to the airport headed to corporate. It was a 45 minute ride and he and I had a long talk about the health of this company, the labor force and the lack of, the problems moving freight and the reasons why I left as well as why even though I have 25 yrs plus driving experience and still have my CDL that I most likely would never drive a truck again.
I pointed out to him that when I left in 2017 that I was making the same or near the same that I was making in 2000, but without the retirement perspective. I pointed out to him that the truck I was driving in the end was close to 17 yrs old. And that due to the lower wage(give backs) that I can name over 7 guys including myself that not only lost homes, but marriages as well due in part to the sacrifices that we members gave up. I said to him that all we are treated like is a number on a spread sheet and not the Humans that we are.
I used that time in the confines of my car to vocalize the concerns, experiences, problems, and expectations that all of you have. Those were the same ones I had when I left and honestly the same ones I still to this day 11 months later have for all the friends and foes I left behind at Holland.
He asked me one big question, “why did you leave and why are you doing what you do now”. My answer has many aspects, but sanity was first and foremost! You should not wake up everyday absolutely hating what you do! I told him at one time I looked forward to going into work and was proud to drive for Holland, but it grinds you down and once the incentive was lost and they were bringing in guys with little experience, paying them the same as the vets, but the work expectation was at a lower bar for them it became impossible to be motivated as I once was.
Another aspect was when he asked why I am doing what I am doing now. You see it was 4 am and I was driving him to the airport doing Uber. I went on to explain to him that I am currently averaging $24.75 an hr even after overhead doing it and clearing around $800 some weeks $1000 plus depending if I do bar close. now that is not the average for most drivers and I am in a large market so I do have an advantage. I choose my hrs and have a ton of flexibility. It has taken a while and a lot of trial and error to get to that average. So no it’s not for everyone!
He said to me but you don’t have the benefits or retirement. I pointed out to him at Holland I lost my Retirement in 09’, the benefits I was paying for with the giveback and I am blessed my wife has similar coverage. I invested the entire time at Holland and lived below my means unlike most who need the OT. But I said to him it is a crying shame that I had to leave for my sanity, that it’s a crying shame that I can drive a Uber and make just about the same as I did driving for Holland without 70 percent of the stress and if I want to spend the afternoon with my wife and kids I can.
I also pointed out to him that it’s going to take two to three guys to replace the one that they are loosing now and over the next five to ten years as guys start to get their 25 in. It’s bleak going into 19’ guys he admitted that to me, he also and I will share only this, that they are looking to really address the different markets. They are aware that a guy living in Chicago or any of the larger cost of living markets can’t make it on the current scale compared to someone in a more rural area. He did say something is being looked into in those regards.
He tipped by the way.
Last edited:
Absolutely
joes bar and grill
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1 Maybe he shrugged his shoulders because you're not as good as you think.
2 Maybe you were told to slow down because you were not being safe
3 The company didn't hire you to run the company, just wanted a truck driver
Fail on all the above!
I peddled on average 21 stops a day and that made other guys look bad, it was not a safety thing it was the fact I actually broke from the so called “Union way” and guys didn’t like that.
2 safety I ended there with 17 yrs of consecutive safety awards.
3 The TM was the third one in 3 yrs and she didn’t last long after I left. They have had 2 more since.
4 no I wasn’t hired to run the company, but when blatant obvious mismanagement of drivers, favoritism, the fact that the new hires could barley cover the work being assigned to them and myself and other route drivers had to deliver all their returns over and over, is not something to remain silent about.
There is a saying if you remain silent, never expect change to occur.. from what I gather many rather remain silent and not shake up the cart...
joes bar and grill
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We have all heard the guys that think they are the next coming of Christ, and for the most part they are legends in their own mind.
No my Brother, I am to humble to ever claim the mantle of Christ our Lord and savior!
But, I am absolute in my conviction that I went to work to Work unlike so many that I worked with over the years. I do have this inclination that you just may be triggered a bit for pointing out those who follow the mantra of the “Union Way” though.
Not a legand in my own mind one bit, just someone who does not settle to follow the herd mindset. Are you content with what is handed you? Do you speak out? I bet you Complain and say things when management and union leadership is not around, but do you on a consistent basis take a stand regardless of who may be offended?
Try it because if not all you will get in April is the same crap sandwich you have now.
There is life outside of Holland, many do real well as a matter of fact, but for the most part being away one thing I can reflect on is the fact that most just go along to go along and really not willing to take a stand.
I am proud I voted no for each of the proposals that led to the current situation there, I seen many guys that blustered and said they would vote no, but in the end voted yes. Those were the same guys in many cases that cried the most about Union strong! Never shop at Walmart etc... but in the end voted yes..
I stand on my record there, I came in and peddled on average 21 daily between picks and drops, at the same time I knew the slackers and those who enjoyed the favoritism by dispatch. It’s no secret who they are, and it’s no secret that in part it has also contributed to the problems the company faces. Good luck with all these new drivers, I see them daily struggling to get into docks and most wont hang around for 15 yrs plus, so now like I have stated this company is on the train to the race to the bottom..
I am proud I voted no for each of the proposals that led to the current situation there, I seen many guys that blustered and said they would vote no, but in the end voted yes. Those were the same guys in many cases that cried the most about Union strong! Never shop at Walmart etc... but in the end voted yes..
I stand on my record there, I came in and peddled on average 21 daily between picks and drops, at the same time I knew the slackers and those who enjoyed the favoritism by dispatch. It’s no secret who they are, and it’s no secret that in part it has also contributed to the problems the company faces. Good luck with all these new drivers, I see them daily struggling to get into docks and most wont hang around for 15 yrs plus, so now like I have stated this company is on the train to the race to the bottom..
joes bar and grill
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Clearly you are not.
Clearly a triggered sheep... carry on...
D
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Holland and YRCW have problems that no driver apprenticeship will solve.
I would recommend a new driver or driver wannabe start at FEDEX or OD. Or get trained by Holland and jump ship to either of the above after experience is gained.
Sad to say, but that's my honest opinion for the future driver.
I would recommend a new driver or driver wannabe start at FEDEX or OD. Or get trained by Holland and jump ship to either of the above after experience is gained.
Sad to say, but that's my honest opinion for the future driver.
The Teamsters Union is no longer interested in LTL trucking and has been slowly divesting itself from it. Imo.
Also the fact that they screwed the pooch so bad with this whole YRC/Holland/New Penn pension cut and give back for so long, that the non’s have a more attractive package overall.
When we are only standing on the fact that we do have some “protections” and medical, but fail to have any real retirement for a new driver and our pay package is below today’s standards for like size companies, it is hard to really attract interest from experienced let alone new drivers.
We all know that you need the complete package of retirement, pay, and health and welfare to really bring in talent.
Those three things were the bedrock of going with a Union company. Unfortunately most experienced drivers at the non’s have seen what YRC has done to these companies and have heard or listened to how the Union really looks at us as the bastard stepchild in the room Mud.
In Many ways Mud I have felt for a long time the Teamsters were moving away from us in LTL, they know that this sector (union wise) is declining membership wise, whereas Big Brown is their bread and butter.
One of the bellwethers to this was the Teamster Magazine. Going back 10-12 yrs ago when you read the magazine all you noticed them bragging about organizing was nurses, this police force or that, and other trades that were not traditional under the Teamster umbrella. You seen lip service for small outfits, but none of the modern day bigs. Sure there was the brief stint trying to get Fed Ex and XPO in recent times, but for the most part they turned away from traditional industry related outfits and job descriptions outside of Brown.
People follow the beans and wieners theory for the most part, especially the youth. When seeking employment they look at what will provide the most to put beans and wieners on the table. Second is medical, then retirement, but in your 20’s and early 30’s most today have been very jaded when it comes to the retirement issue.
———->
Take it from the perspective of this new generation—> the millennial generation—> because that is what this program is focused on.
Millennials are now becoming the second statistically largest generation behind the boomers. GenX caught in the middle are the ones that are looking at reductions in prospective retirement from failing pensions, both private and public sector, reductions in SSI and the fear that there will not be any when they get there. The Millennials are very attuned to all of this as well. Even with all their faults and our complaints about them, they are still very aware of all of this.
This generation has witnessed their fathers and grandparents getting the shaft so to say from the employer as well as the Unions. During their impressionable years and coming of age years they witnessed dad and grandpa take pay cuts, loose percentages of their retirement while at the same time continue to be away from home. Many went through the painful loss of their homes and divorces of their parents as well as a result of what happened back in 09’.
Fast forward to 18’ and now it’s their turn. For those entering into the trade, unlike when GENX entered the goalposts have moved. Not only did they witness what we went through, but now they have a different attitude toward long term employment. Many look at this trade as a quick way to make a buck for a few years till they can move on to something better. They are in competition with migrants from Eastern Europe and Central and South America who frankly are setting the bar for them much lower then what their fathers and grandfathers entered into.
I eluded to the race to the bottom; it is not only being felt in the trucking industry, but in all the trades. The Millennial’s do not and I repeat do not, want to put in the same sacrifice that you and I of the Boomer and GenX generation were willing to do long term.
When they look at a company such as YRC/Holland that does not in all reality have much to offer to them any longer, they will see it strictly as a stepping stone. We see this already with the turnover of new hires for example.
For 19’ one of the biggest issues that needs to be addressed is the retirement package! The pay needs addressing of course and it needs to go up to be competitive with the non’s, but the current structure and the traditional pension program needs to be revamped.
Honestly between the pig headed stubbornness of both the rank and file as well as Union management I don’t honestly feel what needs to occur will occur. For one the Union Management needs the control and monetary means of the pensions to stay afloat. Two the false sense that rank and file have become conditioned to of the traditional pension system is hard to break, especially since the the propaganda machines for years have been down playing any other option.
So to really turn things around they need to start offering the option of a matching 401k while transitioning out of the pensions. To do that and still maintain contributions to the existing plans for those retirees currently collecting and those of us who will be owed our reduced stipend since the freeze, sacrifices on a scale most will refuse would need to occur.
Currently YES the 15% giveback is the scale, but in reality that 15% has since its incarnation been what has been funding in part the H&W package. To get wages back up and a semblance of a retirement package back in place this will become the dam that is holding it all back.
I know most will not like what I say about this but think about it please and honestly. Currently with the giveback we already pay a portion of our H&W in our overall pay package, the biggest complaint about the non’s is they pay a portion of theirs. While they do and their plans may not be the Cadillac plans we have enjoyed, at the same time over the last ten years they have been matched for contributions towards their retirement while we have not. Traditionally through compound interest long term the payouts are at a higher percentage than what is locked in with a traditional pension and even SSI.
So if an agreement or compromise can occur where pay goes up to a competitive mark with the non’s and a transition in retirement offering can occur, there may have to be a compromise by the rank and file to a certain extent on the H&W. Even partitioning a portion of the current 15% between these three main issues would go a long way in resolving much of what is plaguing us.
One thing YRC always sneaks in is rule changes and disciplinary directives. In 14’ when they came back and wanted to extend this out to 19’ if you remember that was some of the main things on their end that they were fighting to institute. This the rank and file need to stay strong on! But if somehow they can come to a compromise of the three big issues—— pay, retirement, and H&W that sets the company as well and rank and file on a competitive track with the non’s you will then see a slight resurgence of interest by those on the outside looking in and just may once again attract experienced drivers again.
We can bluster all we want about Union Strong and Brotherhood this and that, but with the Teamster leadership turning their backs on LTL if you are not Brown you are not at the top of their concerns quite honestly. This is 2018 not 1968 and unfortunately the members in LTL and freight in general are at a huge disadvantage. Many of us have said that they will be looking at the H&W as a bargaining chip, talk to your locals and fellow drivers something of a compromise is coming guys, consider making it to your advantage long term, but don’t expect by being pig headed and saying nope not touching that and we want everything back is going to happen because it’s not going to period!
Millennials are now becoming the second statistically largest generation behind the boomers. GenX caught in the middle are the ones that are looking at reductions in prospective retirement from failing pensions, both private and public sector, reductions in SSI and the fear that there will not be any when they get there. The Millennials are very attuned to all of this as well. Even with all their faults and our complaints about them, they are still very aware of all of this.
This generation has witnessed their fathers and grandparents getting the shaft so to say from the employer as well as the Unions. During their impressionable years and coming of age years they witnessed dad and grandpa take pay cuts, loose percentages of their retirement while at the same time continue to be away from home. Many went through the painful loss of their homes and divorces of their parents as well as a result of what happened back in 09’.
Fast forward to 18’ and now it’s their turn. For those entering into the trade, unlike when GENX entered the goalposts have moved. Not only did they witness what we went through, but now they have a different attitude toward long term employment. Many look at this trade as a quick way to make a buck for a few years till they can move on to something better. They are in competition with migrants from Eastern Europe and Central and South America who frankly are setting the bar for them much lower then what their fathers and grandfathers entered into.
I eluded to the race to the bottom; it is not only being felt in the trucking industry, but in all the trades. The Millennial’s do not and I repeat do not, want to put in the same sacrifice that you and I of the Boomer and GenX generation were willing to do long term.
When they look at a company such as YRC/Holland that does not in all reality have much to offer to them any longer, they will see it strictly as a stepping stone. We see this already with the turnover of new hires for example.
For 19’ one of the biggest issues that needs to be addressed is the retirement package! The pay needs addressing of course and it needs to go up to be competitive with the non’s, but the current structure and the traditional pension program needs to be revamped.
Honestly between the pig headed stubbornness of both the rank and file as well as Union management I don’t honestly feel what needs to occur will occur. For one the Union Management needs the control and monetary means of the pensions to stay afloat. Two the false sense that rank and file have become conditioned to of the traditional pension system is hard to break, especially since the the propaganda machines for years have been down playing any other option.
So to really turn things around they need to start offering the option of a matching 401k while transitioning out of the pensions. To do that and still maintain contributions to the existing plans for those retirees currently collecting and those of us who will be owed our reduced stipend since the freeze, sacrifices on a scale most will refuse would need to occur.
Currently YES the 15% giveback is the scale, but in reality that 15% has since its incarnation been what has been funding in part the H&W package. To get wages back up and a semblance of a retirement package back in place this will become the dam that is holding it all back.
I know most will not like what I say about this but think about it please and honestly. Currently with the giveback we already pay a portion of our H&W in our overall pay package, the biggest complaint about the non’s is they pay a portion of theirs. While they do and their plans may not be the Cadillac plans we have enjoyed, at the same time over the last ten years they have been matched for contributions towards their retirement while we have not. Traditionally through compound interest long term the payouts are at a higher percentage than what is locked in with a traditional pension and even SSI.
So if an agreement or compromise can occur where pay goes up to a competitive mark with the non’s and a transition in retirement offering can occur, there may have to be a compromise by the rank and file to a certain extent on the H&W. Even partitioning a portion of the current 15% between these three main issues would go a long way in resolving much of what is plaguing us.
One thing YRC always sneaks in is rule changes and disciplinary directives. In 14’ when they came back and wanted to extend this out to 19’ if you remember that was some of the main things on their end that they were fighting to institute. This the rank and file need to stay strong on! But if somehow they can come to a compromise of the three big issues—— pay, retirement, and H&W that sets the company as well and rank and file on a competitive track with the non’s you will then see a slight resurgence of interest by those on the outside looking in and just may once again attract experienced drivers again.
We can bluster all we want about Union Strong and Brotherhood this and that, but with the Teamster leadership turning their backs on LTL if you are not Brown you are not at the top of their concerns quite honestly. This is 2018 not 1968 and unfortunately the members in LTL and freight in general are at a huge disadvantage. Many of us have said that they will be looking at the H&W as a bargaining chip, talk to your locals and fellow drivers something of a compromise is coming guys, consider making it to your advantage long term, but don’t expect by being pig headed and saying nope not touching that and we want everything back is going to happen because it’s not going to period!
, Come on down & bring your brothers & sisters & cousins & any other in-laws & apply today
i would tell anyone to avoid the transportation industry all together, other than UPS, who sleeps with Teamster leadership.