Un-affordable Care Act update

Discussion in 'Politics' started by a9faninnc, Apr 15, 2016.

  1. kboomarang

    kboomarang My allah, between pie and mode

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    There's alot of validity to your post, and alot of truth, I can tell from first hand experience of last year healthcare itself doesn't need a whole lot of tinkering with the practices and applications, where Obamacare failed and failed bad is in bring down medical costs, the actual price of the care, it did nothing to earn the title of "AFFORDABLE" to even have the word in its title is total BS, treatments aren't cheaper, premiums are more, drug prices have increased, and I as much I hated seeing our health insurance payments get sucked out of the bank account on a monthly basis, now I look back and feel blessed for having it, because like you stated, in 8 months they paid out easily years and years worth of premiums on my wife's care, but they never bawked, never disputed, never rationed. All that being said any reforms that actually might negatively effect patient care in any way, aren't reforms at all, figuring out ways to make it cost less at premium time isn't reforming anything if the actual costs are high, having the Uncle Sam step in to save the day isn't going lower the actual cost of care, and will only cost more and care will suffer at every turn because that's the way government is again not reform, increasing wait times that's not reform. What would help, tort reform, open state borders to insurers, revisiting and changing any unneeded and costly regulations, revamp the FDA in away that makes it less costly to bring new drugs to the market, have other countries share the costs in bringing drugs to the market, have meetings with actual providers, the hospital administrators and find out what measures could be implemented to lower the costs, not the insurance and pharma mouth pieces seeking self preservation. The bottom line is do things that bring down costs without bringing down care levels, this country has the best care available in the world I would hate to see anything change that though.
     
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  2. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

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    That's true..... and it shouldn't be that way....

    I noticed your use of the term "still"..meaning that people were using the ER's for routine medical care prior to the ACA.... So you can't blame ER usage for routine care on the ACA other than the reason that it hasn't addressed that major flaw that has been present long before the ACA took effect...... A National single payer system would address that issue and allow the ER's to be used for just emergencies as they were intended for, thus making them more efficient and responsive as they aren't being used for routine care.....

    I can understand that point...... That is something can be streamlined and made more efficient...however, with that being said, Doctors complain endlessly about Insurance companies that take to long to pay and do everything they can to get out of paying and they also have a lot of forms and hoops to jump through as well.......Many Doctor offices and clinics have people that just deal with the Insurance Companies...some smaller offices won't take insurance because of the problems they present....So we can't pretend that the for profit private Insurance Companies are not guilty of some of same problems you attribute to Medicare/Medicaid programs.... A National single payer system would actually eliminate the need for most of those "hoops" that exist currently....

    That's a good question..... One reason, and the biggest reason, is just plain greed on the part of the Healthcare industry, from the Doctors all the way up to the Insurance Companies and their Executives.... and let us not forget about the lawyers that also play a role in the problem...which segue's into another big part of the problem driving the high costs due to many of the lawsuits brought forth....(not to say that in the event of some actual negligence and legitimate case a person shouldn't be able to sue)......That part of the system needs some real reform as well......without taking away the patients right to sue for real cases of malpractice...... I think those issues play a larger role in the high cost of health Insurance and healthcare in general than the issue that you mention about limiting areas...etc.... The problem is larger than just any one single issue.....

    Actually Government didn't create the problem in the first place...... Insurance Companies and the medical providers created the problem..... I think that the providers and the legal system is more to blame for the start of the problem.... When the concept of Insurance was first conceived, Doctors saw that as way to start charging higher prices because Insurance was paying.....Insurance Companies simply raised premiums and began to limit what they would pay for any given procedure....and then increasing the co-pay's .....As with anything that has to do with an opportunity to make money, Insurance Companies still charged increasingly higher premiums while cutting benefits as a way to increase profitability......Malpractice Insurance Companies charge huge premiums to cover a doctor in case of a lawsuit.....another example of Insurance Companies being behind ever higher costs...along with the Legal profession as accomplices...

    Yes.... Government showed up with a "solution"... (ACA) but it isn't working because the Insurance Companies are still basically in the "drivers seat"....... It's very clear that the Insurance Industry isn't going to actually be a part of the solution....they like it just the way it is.. I'm sure there will be certain specialties that private insurance can cover...such as elective cosmetic procedures as an example...... Private insurance won't disappear from the landscape.....they will just find other things to "cover".....

    Once again, a National single payer system is what will address most of the issues that we currently have....... ..
     
  3. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I have a friend who spent a long time (like months) at a children's hospital. He reported that the ER is used as a baby sitting service. Yep, they pull up out front, send the kid into the ER and drive away, come back at the end of the day and pick them up. :shrug:
     
  4. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

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    As mentioned many states did not take the medicaid money to cover more of the uninsured.
    They other thing I notice is getting in to see your doctor. They don't want to take you in today, some will let you come in and wait. But they don't seem to do the work they use to. They would rather send you to the ER where you get better care and sophisticated tests run.
    You always hear the recorded message "if this is a medical emergency hang up and dial 911".
    I'm sure litigation has something to do with it.
    We are getting forced into going to the ER like it or not. And its kind of worrisome going there so we don't like it.
    But they do have all the staff and equipment when you need help.
     
  5. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

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    I had a endoscopy recently you go in the stick a cable down your throat and take photo's look for cancers/ pre cancers and other problems.
    You go to some clinic no big deal they knock you out.

    They billed the insurance company $3000 for this, and i can see there is the facility to pay lots of staff to do the work ect.
    The insurance company paid $430 total which is about 14% of the charges.
    The anesthesiologist billed them $300 they gave him $52 for his services.

    They pay my family doctor about the same as they do my specialist I visit.
    Why bother to go to extra schooling to earn the same pay?

    Now this is not to say that if you walked in and paid cash you would get that price. because you wouldn't
     
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  6. Rastus

    Rastus ......Deplorable.....

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    Providing Heath care isn't the governments responsibility in the first place. Of course Obamacare is screwed up everybody knew it would be when it started.
    It's the govts first responsibility is to protect the nation and so they leave the border wide open. Fix that stuff first.
    The Feds suck at everything they do. At this point people who believe in them is foolish.
     
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  7. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    There is some merit to this.
     
  8. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

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    Government provides Medicare and Medicaid and the they work pretty good.
    There is no alternative really even wealthy Seniors use Medicare
     
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  9. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    ObamaCare's goal is to limit services- especially end of life costs.

    By not extending life terms, Obama Care cuts down the elderly population, which then also cuts down on MediCare costs and Social Security outlays. It's how Communism works. It goes hand in hand with the start of Earth Day in 1970. Paul Earlich was and is a huge proponent. His goal was to DePopulate by 2/3 So there was less pollution...
     
  10. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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  11. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

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    The Government is supposed to be by the people, for the people.....It's first priority should be to make sure that it's citizens are taken care of....and yes that includes Healthcare just as much as it includes a Military....

    The Politicians that run the Government get their healthcare provided for at our expense and not just while they are in office...but long after they leave as well..... We should have the same benefit... Our Government should be representing our best interests....such as providing such things as infrastructure......education....... and obviously healthcare should be included....

    Intrinsically speaking, our problem is not with the Government as much as it is with the corrupted demagogues that have been purchased by Corporate money..... We have the problems we have, as a society, largely because we've become a society where selfishness reigns supreme....selfishness and greed that is exemplified by the Corporate "Business model"
    We all live collectively in society and if we are to thrive as a society we need to take care of each other and the best and easiest way to accomplish this is to use our collective money...I.E. our taxes, to take care of one another....

    Yes, I agree that it is part of the Governments responsibility to "Protect the nation"....... As far as the border being "Wide open".... First off....that's not exactly true....and secondly, building a wall isn't going to "fix" anything...not to mention the cost and the time it would take....or posting military troops along he entire stretch of the border........ It isn't the "Big deal" that the talking heads that you listen to have led you to believe..... I know you'll never be able to wrap your mind around that.....but be that as it may, personally, I'd rather that money be spent on providing our citizens with healthcare first before wasting it on "fixing" a basically small problem...in my opinion, of course...

    They suck at a lot of things......However, the Governments biggest problem, first and foremost, was allowing themselves to be bought and run by a bunch of corrupted demagogues whom have convinced a lot of people that the government sucks at everything they do.....so we are more than willing to let them do it.....at a handsome profit for them, of course...... You want Government to run better?.... Get the corporate money and influence out of it...

    The truly foolish ones are the ones that think that Corrupted Politicians, and the Corporate money that has bought them, are the solution to the many problems we face....
     
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  12. Bubba74

    Bubba74 Well-Known Member

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    Correct and the govt is failing the people by not having a secure border


    yes and one of the "goals" of BarryCare was everyone would have their own doctor and the ER would be for emergencies, that has not happened, ER use for non emergencies is up.

    (response to entire quote)
    this is the reason that some doctors wont take insurance, and reason why some doctors wont take BarryCare, too much red tape. Single payer will not fix this because it will limit recourse, cant sue the govt (unless they let you)

    pretty sure doctors did not mandate that all insurance policies sold in NJ cover cancer wigs
    or all policies cover maternity regardless of age or medical condition (was on my mothers policies despite having a hysterectomy in 1980)
    States drove up the cost by putting mandates on policies, that is why insurance costs fluxuated so much from state to state
    Furthermore, competition was limited in markets via state regulation. Fewer competitors higher the cost.
     
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  13. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You guys got a heap of :shit: going on here and it exceeds my attention limits but I do want to brush on two points...
    Be careful of what you report, it could be misconstrued as inciting a riot. :ranting2:
    BarryCare is not an insurance plan or policy, it is the requirement for people to have health insurance from one of the many providers the same as auto insurance is required if you want to take your car on public highways. Therefore a claim that doctors won't take BarryCare is inaccurate.
     
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  14. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    It is accurate. My doctor was a group of four partnership since 1980. Two retired rather than take it, making the statement accurate. Plus, a friend I grew up with in PA is a doctor who only takes cash or barter. No insurance payments of any kind. His biz thrives.

    There's a major difference between voluntarily owning a car and government forcing you to have insurance because you draw breath. Justice Roberts couldn't be more wrong.
     
  15. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    LOL :hilarious: OK, I'm willing to learn (honestly) so...could you please explain to me how my doctor would know if I was on BammerCare or TeamsterCare when I pull out my PPO card when I go there?
     
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  16. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    If you have insurance you meet Obamacare requirements. I don't understand where/why/what point you're making? To meet ocare standards many required fees went on making premiums go up. Millions had a policy they liked cancelled because it didn't meet ocare all inclusive add-ons. Then they had to buy more expensive policies.

    Doctors are getting out (retiring) because the reimbursements and paperwork (mostly added Medicare or MediAid), etc, is no longer worth tenplus years of schooling and a lifetime of liability.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
  17. Starkravinloon

    Starkravinloon Hero's Falling At Home

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    That's why doctors or closing down or joining a firm.. Too much red tape and not worth their time..
     
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  18. Starkravinloon

    Starkravinloon Hero's Falling At Home

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    I know... Anytime they enter your policy number in the computer system, it tells them more about you than you know about yourself..
     
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  19. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

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    The writer sounds like he could care less and would rather they not take any deduction for SS out of his check.
    As most people's paychecks have not kept up with inflation since the 1970's asking people to save more is a bad joke.
    Many of our seniors have no other source of income but SS.
    Maybe they are too old to fight on the streets, I bet they vote once they see the drop in their checks.
    Gets me depressed thinking about this fight all the time, all the wealth being gobbled up by the top and people on the bottom thinking that will help them.
    How long ago was Reagan doing the trickle down bs, we still haven't gotten wet?
     
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  20. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

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    Jimmy those Dr's in the practice back in 1980 are 75 years old now maybe older or stiff.
    That could be the reason you don't see them anymore.

    Last month my mailman retired, good guy we chatted from time to time. He told me he came on this route 17 years ago.
    17 FRIGGIN YEARS AGO! I thought Holy flying :censored: where does the time go? :wtflol:
     
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