What's new

Yellow | UPS’s Union Rejects Labor Contract, Raising Risk of Strike

511monkey said:
Interesting when I google "what president authorized GM bailout" I get Bush.
Click to expand...
Of course-written by Google.

Bush didn't have a clue what to do, and it happened in Oct, with him out by Jan. He summoned the two candidates to Washington, since they would be running whatever happened. McCain, like Bush, was unprepared to Bailout the Private Sector, since no one ever had. (And- in my opinion- ever should). Obama is a Government is god-type, and Loves Huge Government controlling every facet of our lives and businesses. He and his team had a Takeover Plan already in his kitbag. Screwed the Bondholders (our Central States and other Union Funds), to give control over GM and Chrysler to the UAW. Then he could order the car manufacturers what cars to build to meet his EPA goals (That's Facism, by the way). He pushed GM to build the Volt. The Car no one could afford, except Government agencies...

Bush DID Sign it. But he didnt design it.
 
511monkey said:
“Sometimes circumstances get in the way of philosophy,”
“I would make the same decision again.”

“I didn’t want there to twenty-one-per-cent unemployment,”

“I didn’t want history to look back and say, ‘Bush could have done something but chose not to do it.”

All quotes by George W. Bush regarding the auto bailout.
An Inconvenient Truth: It Was George W. Bush Who Bailed Out the Automakers
Click to expand...
Like I said, he signed it. Obama's team designed it.

I didn't vote for either. I'm a Constitutionalist. It wasn't Government's money to spend, nor Government's job to bail them out.
 
Last edited:
511monkey said:
“Sometimes circumstances get in the way of philosophy,”
“I would make the same decision again.”

“I didn’t want there to twenty-one-per-cent unemployment,”

“I didn’t want history to look back and say, ‘Bush could have done something but chose not to do it.”

All quotes by George W. Bush regarding the auto bailout.
An Inconvenient Truth: It Was George W. Bush Who Bailed Out the Automakers
Click to expand...
Bush gave the auto makers lunch money. Obama gave them the FARM, then he carved off a huge chunk of the farm and presented it to the UAW pension fund. The UAW gave the company two tier wage structure in return. Plus never ending votes for democrats, talk about vote buying, with taxpayer money.

511 do you know the difference between GM and any union trucking company?

GM matters, their union employees got a government pension bailout.
 
Interesting thread. To say the least.
When we vote we will be lucky to get a 44% turnout for votes.
That's what we really need to get out and talk about.
Our own contract.
Which will be here before you know it.
 
Bubba Gump said:
If a companies cost structure doesn't allow them to compete, changes have to be made. Preferably when that company is still financially strong. UPS has lost 30% of the market share since the Ron Carey ups strike. this information was provided by FREIGHTMASTER "I really wish he would read first what he post". Anyway, UPS package two tier wage will be a little over $40 an hour for regular drivers, $34.79 for weekend Amazon drivers "most packages under 5lb". No one is going hungry at PKG. this eliminates working over 9.5hrs. this eliminates working over 60 hrs at Christmas. This eliminates some of the harassment, which stems from UPS having to run such a tight ship to survive in the market place.

On the subject of the UAW to tier wage at GM and Chrysler. The Obama administration brokered that deal for a bailout. Obama is responsible for the two tier wage. The UAW pension fund was given a large chunk of the company in exchange, from it's rightful owners. The banks and the bond holders. Who as receivers of their own bailout, were in no position to argue the theft. By the way Ford, didn't take a bailout, the UAW didn't give them a two tier wage. And they are now at a competitive disadvantage. Not going to make cars anymore, sad. You'd think the UAW would work with them to keep jobs in America.

Bottom line is, Obama didn't bail out our pension fund, gave the UAW two tier wages, in exchange for a pension fund bailout.
Click to expand...

My point Bubba Gump is there were negotiations in which the current rank and file took pay raises while selling out the next generation..just like UPS.
IF the company needs to compete why would current rank and file take pay raises while never allowing their children to enjoy the same pay as them. It’s bull shi t no matter how you slice and dice it.They could have taken less or nothing at all to preserve the same living for their children as they have enjoyed for themselves.
 
Looking at the union shops, I wonder if ya all remember the contract language "double-breasting?"
A majority of the union's in the USA have allowed converting/diverting business to non-union subsidiaries for the past 30 years!

Freightmaster1 said:
Just ask the "old timers" at these supermarkets (if you can find any still left working) how the wages and fringe benefits used to be. Ask them how that all changed when the UFCW (formerly Retail Clerks Union) allowed "two-tier" in their contracts!


I realize many of these chains are non-union, but you get my drift!

:crybaby:
Click to expand...
 
falconfan said:
My point Bubba Gump is there were negotiations in which the current rank and file took pay raises while selling out the next generation..just like UPS.
IF the company needs to compete why would current rank and file take pay raises while never allowing their children to enjoy the same pay as them. It’s bull shi t no matter how you slice and dice it.They could have taken less or nothing at all to preserve the same living for their children as they have enjoyed for themselves.
Click to expand...
Falconfan, the new driver classification allows UPS to gain new market share with weekend residential deliveries. these are lower revenue, lower profit margin boxes than mon. thru fri. business deliveries. thus necessitating a lower paid driver. While the weekend driver makes less driving, when they are working as pkg handlers on the other days they are making a great deal more than part time workers. In my day it took 7 to 8 years to go full time at UPS. Now they can go full time in a year if they have any ambition.
As openings occur this driver classification can go to a regular pkg car driver or feeders. This new driver classification does not create a permanent under class of drivers. It provides new full time jobs, just like the thousands of other new combo jobs created for part timers. Freightmaster is pushing a political agenda, not the facts.

The UAW two tier wage system should be a learning tool for all union employees. Make changes when they need to be made. Or have a bankruptcy judge rewrite your contract. Just ask the permanent under class of workers at GM and Chrysler. their daddy's did get their pension fund bailed out by Obama in the deal.
 
Bubba Gump said:
The UAW two tier wage system should be a learning tool for all union employees. Make changes when they need to be made. Or have a bankruptcy judge rewrite your contract. Just ask the permanent under class of workers at GM and Chrysler. their daddy's did get their pension fund bailed out by Obama in the deal.
Click to expand...

History seems to indicate that the employers would have just bagged the additional revenue if allowed additional flexibility by labor. Had labor agreed to work cheaper, they still would have been making a product people didn’t want. Though I can see how this would have allowed the auto executives to fly to the bailout hearings in larger private jets.

Bailout Causes
By December 2008, auto sales had fallen 37 percent in a year. That was 400,000 fewer vehicles or the equivalent of two factories' annual output. GM and Chrysler had the worst decline, while Ford's loss was about the same as industry leaders Honda and Toyota.

At the time of the bailout, the auto industry contributed 3.6 percent, or $500 billion, to U.S. gross domestic product. A 30 percent decline in auto sales translated directly into a 1 percent decrease in economic output.

Many in Congress accused the automakers of not operating competitively for years. The companies had delayed making alternative energy vehicles. Instead, they focused on reaping the profits from gas-guzzling SUVs and Hummers. When sales declined in 2006, they launched zero-percent financing plans to lure buyers. Union members were paid $70 per hour, on average, while new hires made $26 per hour. GM had twice as many brands as needed. It also had twice as many dealerships, thanks to state franchise regulations.
 
Last edited:
bubba gump, you are incorrect about the uaw 2 tier wage system, i know, my father and uncle worked through it and retired shortly after. i was hauling auto parts for a teamster auto parts hauler, under the nmfa truckload and steel supplement that no longer exists.

two tier wages were negotiated well before any of the bankruptcies, in 2007. the uaw set up a sham strike for a couple days to make it look like they fought the 2 tier wages, at gm. pattern bargaining ensured Chrysler and ford got the same deal. ford never took money because before the economy totally dissolved, they established emergency lines of credit with lenders, iirc. fwiw, around Michigan, before the recession, everyone was worried about ford, not gm or Chrysler. i know a few guys at d
ford stamping over in lackawanna, they have had 2 tier wages in effect since 2007.

George Bush should get a lot more credit than he has received, he was the one that signed off on saving the auto companies. obama, if anything, cut the companies off at the hamstrings, with epa regs and social engineering. ...
 
buffalobill said:
bubba gump, you are incorrect about the uaw 2 tier wage system, i know, my father and uncle worked through it and retired shortly after. i was hauling auto parts for a teamster auto parts hauler, under the nmfa truckload and steel supplement that no longer exists.

two tier wages were negotiated well before any of the bankruptcies, in 2007. the uaw set up a sham strike for a couple days to make it look like they fought the 2 tier wages, at gm. pattern bargaining ensured Chrysler and ford got the same deal. ford never took money because before the economy totally dissolved, they established emergency lines of credit with lenders, iirc. fwiw, around Michigan, before the recession, everyone was worried about ford, not gm or Chrysler. i know a few guys at d
ford stamping over in lackawanna, they have had 2 tier wages in effect since 2007.

George Bush should get a lot more credit than he has received, he was the one that signed off on saving the auto companies. obama, if anything, cut the companies off at the hamstrings, with epa regs and social engineering. ...
Click to expand...
Wage concessions started in 2007, but wage and benefit cuts continued as a requirement of the bankruptcy agreement. Ford was flush with cash from the sale of Jaguar, Range Rover and Mazda. Fords CEO, sold off assets and mortgaged company to have cash to bring out new products and keep the company going. They got screwed by being resourceful and daring, that's what happens when you don't let the government into your business.
 
buffalobill said:
bubba gump, you are incorrect about the uaw 2 tier wage system, i know, my father and uncle worked through it and retired shortly after. i was hauling auto parts for a teamster auto parts hauler, under the nmfa truckload and steel supplement that no longer exists.

two tier wages were negotiated well before any of the bankruptcies, in 2007. the uaw set up a sham strike for a couple days to make it look like they fought the 2 tier wages, at gm. pattern bargaining ensured Chrysler and ford got the same deal. ford never took money because before the economy totally dissolved, they established emergency lines of credit with lenders, iirc. fwiw, around Michigan, before the recession, everyone was worried about ford, not gm or Chrysler. i know a few guys at d
ford stamping over in lackawanna, they have had 2 tier wages in effect since 2007.

George Bush should get a lot more credit than he has received, he was the one that signed off on saving the auto companies. obama, if anything, cut the companies off at the hamstrings, with epa regs and social engineering. ...
Click to expand...
Bill, looked up benefit and wage concessions from 2009 GM, Chrysler bankruptcies. One of the more insidious was the "JOBS BANK" it was pure theft. I bet you can tell tales, of your dad and uncle, getting into their Lincolns "Got a new one every year", and heading off to the golf course in Grosse Pointe,'''''''''EVERYDAY''''''''''. Only at the UAW, do the highest seniority employees get laid off. I guess I'd take lay off to if I got 90% of my pay. And people wonder why unions have a bad name.

George Bush gave GM and Chrysler lunch money to keep the wolves at bay. Obama transferred taxpayer money to UAW pension and insurance funds. expenditures not necessary to keep GM and Chrysler in business.
 
Bubba Gump said:
Bill, looked up benefit and wage concessions from 2009 GM, Chrysler bankruptcies. One of the more insidious was the "JOBS BANK" it was pure theft. I bet you can tell tales, of your dad and uncle, getting into their Lincolns "Got a new one every year", and heading off to the golf course in Grosse Pointe,'''''''''EVERYDAY''''''''''. Only at the UAW, do the highest seniority employees get laid off. I guess I'd take lay off to if I got 90% of my pay. And people wonder why unions have a bad name.

George Bush gave GM and Chrysler lunch money to keep the wolves at bay. Obama transferred taxpayer money to UAW pension and insurance funds. expenditures not necessary to keep GM and Chrysler in business.
Click to expand...


your way off with the lincolns(gm workers). my father and uncle never golfed anywhere, or led any sort of extravagant life, they had good jobs is all.

and the jobs bank was never the place to be if you wanted to make the kind of money that is talked about, 90% on 40 hrs, aint nothing special . the key to making money at a uaw shop is living there. my father never missed working a holiday because of the triple time.

it still works like that today, i know a guy at a uaw shop, he might get 17 an hour. but he clears 80k a year, because he works so much.
 
Bubba Gump said:
Wage concessions started in 2007, but wage and benefit cuts continued as a requirement of the bankruptcy agreement. Ford was flush with cash from the sale of Jaguar, Range Rover and Mazda. Fords CEO, sold off assets and mortgaged company to have cash to bring out new products and keep the company going. They got screwed by being resourceful and daring, that's what happens when you don't let the government into your business.
Click to expand...


ford never got screwed, look at the garbage vehicles they have been making forever. same with gm and Chrysler. i dont know why its taken the big 3 this long to realize how lame their cars are, their sales are all trucks, and the few performance cars they still make.

the wage cuts in 2007 cut new hires to around 14 an hour, share some of the cost of the benefits, and no pension, at all, 401k with no match, iirc. it was essentially a 60% cut. the benefits you talk about being cut in 2009 were mainly to retirement benefits, no more dental and vision after retirement. what happened with the bankruptcies was peanuts compared to that garbage 2 tier contract. how does anyone justify certain union members being better off than others? they should have negotiated a cut across the board, for everyone.
 
Bubba Gump said:
Bill, looked up benefit and wage concessions from 2009 GM, Chrysler bankruptcies. One of the more insidious was the "JOBS BANK" it was pure theft. I bet you can tell tales, of your dad and uncle, getting into their Lincolns "Got a new one every year", and heading off to the golf course in Grosse Pointe,'''''''''EVERYDAY''''''''''. Only at the UAW, do the highest seniority employees get laid off. I guess I'd take lay off to if I got 90% of my pay. And people wonder why unions have a bad name.

George Bush gave GM and Chrysler lunch money to keep the wolves at bay. Obama transferred taxpayer money to UAW pension and insurance funds. expenditures not necessary to keep GM and Chrysler in business.
Click to expand...

Bubba Gump said:
Bill, looked up benefit and wage concessions from 2009 GM, Chrysler bankruptcies. One of the more insidious was the "JOBS BANK" it was pure theft. I bet you can tell tales, of your dad and uncle, getting into their Lincolns "Got a new one every year", and heading off to the golf course in Grosse Pointe,'''''''''EVERYDAY''''''''''. Only at the UAW, do the highest seniority employees get laid off. I guess I'd take lay off to if I got 90% of my pay. And people wonder why unions have a bad name.

George Bush gave GM and Chrysler lunch money to keep the wolves at bay. Obama transferred taxpayer money to UAW pension and insurance funds. expenditures not necessary to keep GM and Chrysler in business.
Click to expand...


btw, i dont know where or what you do, but if there are layoffs, seniority dictates. you know, offer from the top down, then force from the bottom up. happens at any union shop. no jobs bank?there is still unemployment.
 
buffalobill said:
your way off with the lincolns(gm workers). my father and uncle never golfed anywhere, or led any sort of extravagant life, they had good jobs is all.

and the jobs bank was never the place to be if you wanted to make the kind of money that is talked about, 90% on 40 hrs, aint nothing special . the key to making money at a uaw shop is living there. my father never missed working a holiday because of the triple time.

it still works like that today, i know a guy at a uaw shop, he might get 17 an hour. but he clears 80k a year, because he works so much.
Click to expand...
Well my neighbor had the good sense to take voluntary layoff at 90% pay, after working all those 12 hr. days. According to him he needed to actually work 6 of those hours, since he was more productive than the younger worker.
 
buffalobill said:
ford never got screwed, look at the garbage vehicles they have been making forever. same with gm and Chrysler. i dont know why its taken the big 3 this long to realize how lame their cars are, their sales are all trucks, and the few performance cars they still make.

the wage cuts in 2007 cut new hires to around 14 an hour, share some of the cost of the benefits, and no pension, at all, 401k with no match, iirc. it was essentially a 60% cut. the benefits you talk about being cut in 2009 were mainly to retirement benefits, no more dental and vision after retirement. what happened with the bankruptcies was peanuts compared to that garbage 2 tier contract. how does anyone justify certain union members being better off than others? they should have negotiated a cut across the board, for everyone.
Click to expand...
Well actually Ford did get screwed, they didn't get all the wage and benefit cuts GM and Chrysler did. GM and Chrysler got a thirty billion gift from Obama, for their pension and health care funds. Legacy cost ford still had to pay. Ford also is probably still paying on the loans it took out when it mortgage the company. GM and Chrysler got the bailout.
 
buffalobill said:
btw, i dont know where or what you do, but if there are layoffs, seniority dictates. you know, offer from the top down, then force from the bottom up. happens at any union shop. no jobs bank?there is still unemployment.
Click to expand...
I work for UPS. I grew up surrounded by Hill Billy's who worked at the Fisher Body plant, in Ontario OH. When you have no work, you lay people off. Simple economics. At the UAW, you pay them 90% of their wages to play golf. Sure fire way to land up in bankruptcy court. Thank God the UAW had Obama pulling the strings when their day in court came. And by the way Freightmaster invited me to the YRC forum. Why does he post UPS here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top