Vietnam Documentary PBS Starting Sunday September 17, 2017

Discussion in 'Politics' started by slavenomore, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One take away is we now know that the President and all his men and most of Congress will lie to you.
    Not too many are principled enough to say No, hell no!
     
    ABFer likes this.
  2. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I was watching a bit of Trumps speech with the Afghan leader and it all seemed so plastic to me.
    Reminds me of the garbage they told us during Viet Nam .
    History repeats itself , doesn't it.
     
  3. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    18,409
    Likes Received:
    10,551
    Trophy Points:
    113
    On the issue of Afghanistan...back when the Russians were invading them and we were funding and training those who fought the Russians the talk was that there was no way an outsider could win a battle there, the terrain is too rugged and difficult to police...so why are we there now? The time to have been there was when Osama Bin Laden was training his Al Qaeda. It would have been easy to take out Bin Laden at that time.

    On the Vietnam War on PBS, I have watched all five of the episodes thus far and I get the point. I do hope that they provide some new insight soon or I'll drop out. I get the point, we were on the wrong side to begin with, it was known early on in the war that we could not win and it was all for politics and not for the betterment of the Vietnamese or anyone else. I had no idea how bad of a President LBJ was before this series.
     
    Magoo likes this.
  4. Driver71

    Driver71 AKA:DBLCLUTCH

    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    154
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Proof that we need too keep our nose out of other people's business!
     
    slavenomore likes this.
  5. kboomarang

    kboomarang My allah, between pie and mode

    Messages:
    2,157
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's kinda what I've been taking from the series, and he didn't seem to take McNamera's repeated mis-givings to heart, and at the same time he put too much credence in Westmoreland's advice despite its repeated shortcomings as far as being successful, it also seemed those shortcomings were passed down to the leadership on the ground as pointed out by the interviewed former soldiers both American and North Vietnamese.
     
  6. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hang in there and watch it all, we'll get a nice sense of completion when its over.
    Anyway it's interesting to hear what the people involved have to say.

    I heard somewhere that in our Nations history of close to 250 years we were not involved in war only about 23 of those years.
    That ought to tell you something about us.
     
  7. DCM_Doc

    DCM_Doc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,679
    Likes Received:
    2,284
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I remember a story, supposedly true about a 100 year old man being interviewed about his longevity & to what he accredited it to. He said it was his nose. The reporter asked why a man's nose could possibly contribute years to his life. The centenarian replied it's simple, just keep it our of other people's business.
     
    albag and ABFer like this.
  8. slavenomore

    slavenomore US Gov Hears Foreign Corps More Than Nonunions

    Messages:
    7,441
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree that we need to keep our nose out of everybody else's business....we haven't done that since when?
    Imagine the conservative savings.

    I haven't caught this documentary yet. But I think if we were taking a side, we took the right side.
    We took the side against communism.
    That is the correct side......our media and entertainment and education has a strong side which sympathized with communism then and also does now.......religion is held down under communism....and the liberals always like that.

    Somebody decided to open up trade with billions of Chinese....knowing full well that we cannot compete with that........I think they still like and want communism....and Chinese trade will take us there imo.
     
  9. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    18,409
    Likes Received:
    10,551
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would recommend that you at least watch episode one, you are off base on this.
     
    slavenomore likes this.
  10. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Last night they talked about Nixon. I told this story on here before.
    When he was running against Humphrey Johnsons vice, Johnson decided not to run.
    Nixons people contacted South Vietnamese General/President and told him to stall the peace talks that they would get him a better deal. He did walk away from the peace talks..
    In the film we hear Johnson question Nixon on the phone. Nixon said he would never do that. Johsnon knew he was lying.
    The film said Johnson did not want to make it public to protect who told him about it.
    That part makes me wonder who was that important to let this go. High Treason
     
  11. kboomarang

    kboomarang My allah, between pie and mode

    Messages:
    2,157
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They made note that it was the Johnson administration itself that had the US based offices and embassy of South Viet Nam bugged, so they got the intel on the Nixon deal themselves, but to tip their hand that they knew of the deal they would also be admitting they had them bugged, so the who was them.
     
    Magoo likes this.
  12. DCM_Doc

    DCM_Doc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,679
    Likes Received:
    2,284
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The American public was led to believe that the reason we were involved in the war was to stop communist aggression which was a noble cause. As time went on & the truth was told about the Gulf of Tonkin incident there was more skepticism about our involvement in what was apparently a never ending war. Senator Fulbright was one of the first to turn on Johnson & call for an end to the war. They had been senate buddies for a long time. I think Johnson was too trusting of Robert McNamara who I consider to be the architect of the war lined his pockets from this war. Lady Bird & her friends benefited from the war also.
    I think all Ho Chi Minh wanted initially was to rid the country of French colonization & what was actually slavery for the Vietnamese people. He found an ally with the communists but the US could have been his ally if it would have denounced the French occupation of Vietnam.
    We were not on the wrong side as far as fighting communism but the North Vietnamese were more devoted. The mountain people,(Montagnard) were our allies but the US did little for them. They were brave warriors. I think there is a settlement of them in North Carolina.
    I don't know if those of us who served there were right or wrong. Most of us were doing what we thought was right at the time. We had no control of the politics of the war or the corrupt South Vietnamese politicians.
     
    Crystal, ABFer and kboomarang like this.
  13. slavenomore

    slavenomore US Gov Hears Foreign Corps More Than Nonunions

    Messages:
    7,441
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Our parish priest is in charge of the Vietnamese in our diocese. His family owned land. The communists came to take it...and did..he had a large family. He fled with about 70 people...and less than 10 made it out alive. He was 10 years old at the time. They caught them at one point and hung his 9 year old sister up on something and let the dogs attack her....in front of him. They were ugly. He joined the military when he was old enough here. Our Army. He hates communism.....can't blame him. He got a degree in engineering and then became a priest..One of his brothers is also a priest....kinda goes with your post DCM Doc.
     
  14. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would gladly admitted to spying on South Vietnam's Brass to put that Nixon in prison.
    His acts caused another 25 thousand to die.
    He should have been hung along with his charges
     
    Crystal likes this.
  15. kboomarang

    kboomarang My allah, between pie and mode

    Messages:
    2,157
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your statement brings out the theme or underlying of every episode, Thank you.
     
  16. DCM_Doc

    DCM_Doc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,679
    Likes Received:
    2,284
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Would you also be for hanging Johnson & Kennedy for their part in the war?
     
  17. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They all have blame some for being stupid, vain and gullible but Nixon for killing a peace deal is definitely a step up from plain stupidity.
    Just plain treason and he got away with it.

    By the way we seen something similar when Reagan was running, lots of action with secret contacts and talks with Iran when he was running against Carter. We forget about that too.

    Then these days Trump had contacts with Russian officials prior to the election and afterwards before his inauguration.
    But here again people don't want to see it and look the other way, they dismiss the consequences.
     
  18. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Trophy Points:
    113
    to add to that in direct response to Johnson and Kennedy.
    I think impeachment of our President is a hard wall to jump, too hard.
    Maybe we should have Votes of no confidence to remove Presidents we feel not up to the job.
    Not sure how the country's who do that handle it, we wouldn't want it to be just partisan politics.
    But the Presidents we have had have made bad decisions knowing they were bad decisions and Congress needs to be more in the loop with these decisions.
    Maybe we have given the Executive Branch of government too much power over the others
     
  19. kboomarang

    kboomarang My allah, between pie and mode

    Messages:
    2,157
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think there was any "peace deal" in the works that Nixon purposely killed, the North and South spent 10 weeks arguing about who was gonna sit where at a rectangular table until it was suggested by the Russians(no less) to sit at a round table, then add the fact the peace talks went on until 1973, so it was far from a deal.
     
    slavenomore, ABFer and DCM_Doc like this.
  20. kantgetryte

    kantgetryte Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,255
    Likes Received:
    1,550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The best part was the Chicago demonstrators getting thumped,hope antifa fans were watching
     
    ABFer likes this.

Share This Page