TForce | what are some good reasons not to have the union at UPSF?

stldude44 said:
I'm not sure if it would or not. I'm certain, though, that on here anyone making repeated attempts to belittle those they don't agree with aren't usually valued or respected among the other members especially when they display a better than thou/know it all attitude. You and the boys in Richmond must be getting a little nervous. I think you'll find it much easier just to accept the things you have no control over. It the UPSF workforce wants to join the Teamsters there's not one thing you can do about it.
Also, you never answered me in regards to why you seem to think that UPSF can't prosper under the NMFA. If it's a well managed Company the fact that it will be Union won't matter a bit. Your types might not be able to continue intimidating and browbeating the workers, but you'll have to get over that. Life will go on. Like I said, it'll be easier on your blood pressure if you just accept it. It's not your call this time, Mr. Mgr.

1. Again, I am not in a management, supervisory, etc position with Overnite...I have the ability to think totally on my own

2. If UPS has such good management, why do you need a union? Either its good or its not?

3. Not nervous at all. I totally trust the democratic process as long as it is fairly carried out without intimidation, violence, threats, etc.

4. Even though I do not work in the field, I feel my job security is a lot better by working for a non union carrier vs a union carrier. Even you can not honestly argue against that point considering the long line of unionized carriers that have fallen throught the years vs the non union carriers. After all, UPS must have seen something good in OVNT to make them spend 1.25 billion to purchase us.

5. I see how poorly other carriers have operated under the NMFA...again, if its so good, why has a national carrier not been organized in over 30 plus years? The only way Yellow/Roadway has made it this long is thanks to all the other union carriers going under.....thats a pretty poor way to grow market, waiting for your fellow union carriers to collapse instead of growing market through true competition...

Again, who pays for your union salary? The evil corporation? Stock holders? Nope, the customer. It makes no difference how great your union contract is, how awesome the pension is, if the customer is giving their freight to your competition because they can offer flexibility, better service standards, etc....then you can toss that contract, just as CFers, etc have had to do.....

Face it, UPS bought Overnite to compete wiht Fed Ex in the freight business and offer another service to the shipping public under the UPS umbrella. They looked at 16 carriers. They see how well Fed Ex has operated as a non union carrier. Why in the heck would they just sit back and let the teamstuhs come into Overnite? To pay 3 guys to do the job 1 guy can do?

Just look at the history of the teamsters, the numerous teamster carriers shuttered through the years, the corruption, the violence, and I go back to my original question....hows that union contract working out at CF and Preston?

:bgroovy:
 
PO,
1. Then you must be a dockhand or office worker. They send dockhands and office workers to drive in STL during strikes?
Being Union or non doesn't have a thing to do with one's ability to think for themselves, as you suggest. While I don't agree with every single thing the Teamsters have done or will do in the future, I know that I have the very best of what the LTL sector has to offer, hands down.
2. I fail to see the connection as to whether or not a Company has good Mgmt. and the need for a written and signed contract with them. Don't you get a reciept for all of your transactions at the bank? Or, do you blindly trust that things will always be alright and there will never be a problem? When you buy a car and the salesman tells you the price don't you sign a contract so that nothing can be changed in the price? Have you taken the time to see what some of your co-workers have complained about on these boards? Good Mgmt. or not, everyone knows what the terms are on a contract. It just makes good sense. Trust can get you screwed in this world.
3. I don't believe you, but that's ok. Last time was bad. Threats and intimidation from both sides. You can rest assured it won't happen that way twice.
4. If you feel cozy about job security that's fine. Nobody can assure any job security in the area of whether or not an LTL Company will survive anymore. It's a business in which customers are very fickle and will forget about years of great service if they can save a dime. Job security also pertains to not being unjustly terminated or treated unfairly on the job. A non Union employee truthfully has little or none of this when push comes to shove. UPS is known to not be very shy about firing workers on a whim. Ask around, you'll find out.
5. It's true that some of the fomer NMFA Companies operated poorly and they paid the price. Most upper level Mgmt. will admit that it wasn't the Teamsters fault since they knew the cost of labor and didn't make the prpoer moves to assure solvency. It's a lesson that hasn't gone unnoticed by the NMFA Carriers that have grown and prospered. A Union Company is just that...a Company. They couldn't care less if their growth was increased due to another Union Company going out of business. It's not like the were formed to help each other grow. The surviving Union Companies have enhanced service and are currently creeping more and more into the shorthaul market. They're doing what's necessary to compete with those who pay less and offer less of a benefit package. They must not be doing too badly either. Yellow Roadway was just named the most admired Company in it's field for the 4th straight year by Forbes.
I have never said anything about 'the evil Corporation'....those are your words. We all need our Companies to thrive so that we can thrive ourselves. This isn't the 70's or even the 90's anymore. The lazy, 2 hour a day Union workers you described are gone and we are actually realize that it's up to us to do our part in assuring that the Companies we work for are successful. Also, you should read up on the Premium Service aspect of the NMFA...it's Article 18. And it's working. Expect to see it expand in the very near future.
You must be referring to the fact that non Union drivers are forced to be not only drivers but also yardmen and dockhands in your 3-1 comparison. Sadly, some of these guys think it's a good idea because they make more money that way. A human body isn't meant to work 13 or 14 hours a day, day in and day out. It will eventually take it's toll on the workforce and will become a negative, hopefully.
Finally, your CF/Preston question is the same old tired anti Union crap that we've been over too many times to count. Only the truly uninformed will give it any consideration at all.
 
stldude44 said:
PO,
1. Then you must be a dockhand or office worker. They send dockhands and office workers to drive in STL during strikes?
Being Union or non doesn't have a thing to do with one's ability to think for themselves, as you suggest. While I don't agree with every single thing the Teamsters have done or will do in the future, I know that I have the very best of what the LTL sector has to offer, hands down.
2. I fail to see the connection as to whether or not a Company has good Mgmt. and the need for a written and signed contract with them. Don't you get a reciept for all of your transactions at the bank? Or, do you blindly trust that things will always be alright and there will never be a problem? When you buy a car and the salesman tells you the price don't you sign a contract so that nothing can be changed in the price? Have you taken the time to see what some of your co-workers have complained about on these boards? Good Mgmt. or not, everyone knows what the terms are on a contract. It just makes good sense. Trust can get you screwed in this world.
3. I don't believe you, but that's ok. Last time was bad. Threats and intimidation from both sides. You can rest assured it won't happen that way twice.
4. If you feel cozy about job security that's fine. Nobody can assure any job security in the area of whether or not an LTL Company will survive anymore. It's a business in which customers are very fickle and will forget about years of great service if they can save a dime. Job security also pertains to not being unjustly terminated or treated unfairly on the job. A non Union employee truthfully has little or none of this when push comes to shove. UPS is known to not be very shy about firing workers on a whim. Ask around, you'll find out.
5. It's true that some of the fomer NMFA Companies operated poorly and they paid the price. Most upper level Mgmt. will admit that it wasn't the Teamsters fault since they knew the cost of labor and didn't make the prpoer moves to assure solvency. It's a lesson that hasn't gone unnoticed by the NMFA Carriers that have grown and prospered. A Union Company is just that...a Company. They couldn't care less if their growth was increased due to another Union Company going out of business. It's not like the were formed to help each other grow. The surviving Union Companies have enhanced service and are currently creeping more and more into the shorthaul market. They're doing what's necessary to compete with those who pay less and offer less of a benefit package. They must not be doing too badly either. Yellow Roadway was just named the most admired Company in it's field for the 4th straight year by Forbes.
I have never said anything about 'the evil Corporation'....those are your words. We all need our Companies to thrive so that we can thrive ourselves. This isn't the 70's or even the 90's anymore. The lazy, 2 hour a day Union workers you described are gone and we are actually realize that it's up to us to do our part in assuring that the Companies we work for are successful. Also, you should read up on the Premium Service aspect of the NMFA...it's Article 18. And it's working. Expect to see it expand in the very near future.
You must be referring to the fact that non Union drivers are forced to be not only drivers but also yardmen and dockhands in your 3-1 comparison. Sadly, some of these guys think it's a good idea because they make more money that way. A human body isn't meant to work 13 or 14 hours a day, day in and day out. It will eventually take it's toll on the workforce and will become a negative, hopefully.
Finally, your CF/Preston question is the same old tired anti Union crap that we've been over too many times to count. Only the truly uninformed will give it any consideration at all.
Thank you stldude44, well written. Where ever he or she is on the UPSF food chain, the noose has just begun to tighten. "O" certainly was not a well run company. I think UPS said hey here's a company on it's last leg, no enforced rules and a union tested workforce. We can shape, mold and brainwash them, and they'll be grateful to even have a job. Now that we have a future, we will need to insure that future. I would love to see PO tell a UPS package car driver they are a lazy teamster. For that matter, any freight or package teamster. As a p&d driver for our newly formed company. I plan on still giving a 100% daily. Imagine that!! Even after I become a teamster. This helps with profitability and hopefully insures a paycheck tomorrow. Like you said, the teamsters are not the teamsters of 10+years ago. In order to survive, you have to change with the times. Management has an issue to motivate and sustain its workforce. And the lack of motivation and management is the downfall of a company and not the teamsters.
 
Proud Overniter said:
update my resume and hit the job market........or explore going into business for myself.....

i dont have a hard on for unions, there a time and a place for them...but as i originally stated, for many years now they have failed to adjust to our global economy and have stayed stuck in the 1950s and 1960s......and you today are seeing the result of that mindset with the problems Detroit is having,

People in non union jobs gain even more from union bargaining power that includes you! I am union by choice.

reading your posts I can safely say your a troll from mgmt and a socialistic left wing Republican nut and you frequently violate established standards of fairness in your work place,you are obsessed with Kenneth Lay and Jeff Skilling,you also see a sexologist twice a week. take my advice what ever you do,don't have any kids.

I am a pretty good judge of character's and reading your posts I think I have you right on the money!

:bigfinger:
 
Anyone have any positive remarks about the new company. Instead of the same ones bashing Overnite and now the new UPSF.

I think the tightening up and all the changes are going to be good for the company and people.
 
Skeeter said:
Anyone have any positive remarks about the new company. Instead of the same ones bashing Overnite and now the new UPSF.

I think the tightening up and all the changes are going to be good for the company and people.

Gee Skeeter,

you seem anxious. What happened to wait and see? Only 3 days old and you're wondering where all the positive remarks are as compared to the same old junk you've been hearing all along? Why don't you enlighten everyone with some good remarks, or have you yet to see anything positive? Maybe that should tell you everything you need to know.
 
hugnlug said:
What did Leo S. find after he scraped the "O" logo off the side of the trailer?


Preston!!!: :biglaugh:
after he scraped the 'PRESTON 'decal off,underneath that was a 'RYDER/P.I.E NATIONWIDE' decal.:duh: :rolleyes: :tribehasspoken:
 
Corn Bread said:
People in non union jobs gain even more from union bargaining power that includes you! I am union by choice.

reading your posts I can safely say your a troll from mgmt and a socialistic left wing Republican nut and you frequently violate established standards of fairness in your work place,you are obsessed with Kenneth Lay and Jeff Skilling,you also see a sexologist twice a week. take my advice what ever you do,don't have any kids.

I am a pretty good judge of character's and reading your posts I think I have you right on the money!
GOOD ONE,C/B,maybe this is: LEO,in his out the door speech :nutkick: :chairshot: :biglaugh: ,your right,it is a troll,like the apwa fairy!:bigfinger: to em' both!
 
Proud Overniter said:
actually, wouldnt a discussion about globalization be about economics? maybe you should start an economic forum......might help you unions guys better understand why unions are failing and the concept of supply vs demand??
well at upsf,you'll certainly learn a HARD,TRUE lesson about supply & demand,they demand that lazy:duh: :redneck: :snaggletooth: :sheep:start suppling a real honest,hard days work, done the right way,of course,or you won't be in demand very long, and they'll supply themselves with a new hire.oh ya,how about all of that 'non-union,at will employee flexability 'you got!
 
Proud Overniter said:
1. Again, I am not in a management, supervisory, etc position with Overnite...I have the ability to think totally on my own

2. If UPS has such good management, why do you need a union? Either its good or its not?

3. Not nervous at all. I totally trust the democratic process as long as it is fairly carried out without intimidation, violence, threats, etc.

4. Even though I do not work in the field, I feel my job security is a lot better by working for a non union carrier vs a union carrier. Even you can not honestly argue against that point considering the long line of unionized carriers that have fallen throught the years vs the non union carriers. After all, UPS must have seen something good in OVNT to make them spend 1.25 billion to purchase us.

5. I see how poorly other carriers have operated under the NMFA...again, if its so good, why has a national carrier not been organized in over 30 plus years? The only way Yellow/Roadway has made it this long is thanks to all the other union carriers going under.....thats a pretty poor way to grow market, waiting for your fellow union carriers to collapse instead of growing market through true competition...

Again, who pays for your union salary? The evil corporation? Stock holders? Nope, the customer. It makes no difference how great your union contract is, how awesome the pension is, if the customer is giving their freight to your competition because they can offer flexibility, better service standards, etc....then you can toss that contract, just as CFers, etc have had to do.....

Face it, UPS bought Overnite to compete wiht Fed Ex in the freight business and offer another service to the shipping public under the UPS umbrella. They looked at 16 carriers. They see how well Fed Ex has operated as a non union carrier. Why in the heck would they just sit back and let the teamstuhs come into Overnite? To pay 3 guys to do the job 1 guy can do?

Just look at the history of the teamsters, the numerous teamster carriers shuttered through the years, the corruption, the violence, and I go back to my original question....hows that union contract working out at CF and Preston?

:bgroovy:
yep,it's another overpaid, pencil pushin deskjockey:nutkick: :chairshot: :biglaugh:
 
Corn Bread said:
Why do you think your wages are where they are today? If all union carriers go out of business,bend over,get ready...the guide for non-union truckers will be history,you thought outsourcing jobs was a problem. Your company will not pay you for voting non union anymore so bend over 13:
bet when things are done & overwith,this troll of a manager will surely wish he/she was a union member,after 'brown tightens down':nutkick: :chairshot: :biglaugh: p.s,you'l find out what getting bent over is really like,brown style. not like you really have'nt had any practice/experience at it already.
 
Proud Overniter said:
but your beloved unions are among those wanting amnesty for illegal, know why? because it will increase wages, and since most union wages are pegged to min wages, it increases union wages...its not about humanitarian aid, its about greed for its members and union bosses. d

and globalization, are you saying if GM is making a crappy car, and XYZ Car Co in Foreignland is making a better car at a better price, the American consumer should be prohibited from buying that car and forced to buy the overpriced American car?

i dont get the union and liberal mindset...they vote for tax increases, wacked out environmental regulations, govt regulation, bureacracy, on and on and on......then they scratch their heads and are upset when US companies cant compete and are forced to move manufacturing out of the country...:
not a politics forum,but...here goes,what a :jerkit:conservitive :flame: :fruit:,managerial republican!:nutkick:****.
 
Proud Overniter said:
so to what do you credit the falling % of the work force that is represented by unions?

so if you cant rebut my position, just tell me to keep my mouth shut? i thought this thread was about unions, and should UPGF go union? well, i'm just offering a differnt take, and you tell me to keep my mouth shut...maybe thatswhy you do need a union, because you dont know how to think on your own and you therefore need the union to think for you???
managers comments really don't mean:jerkit: here,go back to the stupid jokes that you managemen[mis-management ]:nutkick: people usually find amusing in your own little world in the office,glad you ****'s do,cuz nobody else in the world does
,p.s,take some breath mints to cover up the 'joyjuice' & coffee breath.by 'joyjuice',I mean jizz from blowing your new bosses[UPS] in a desperate ,pathetic attempt,thinking that's gonna save your pathetic job,which it won't:biglaugh: you'll find out the new meaning'you've been BROWNED' SICK,PATHETIC LITTLE trollster!
 
Proud Overniter said:
how's that union contract working out a preston and Cf
YOU MUST BE 'sad overniter 'now?,it's owned by brown now,no more:redneck: blue &:snaggletooth: :redneck: gray,hurrah! blue & gray go away:sadwavey:'IS YOU DOWN WITH BROWN?'
 
greezy trucker said:
I had to bite my lip to keep from laughing the whole time I was typing this. But you know it is true.
YO,GREEZY,MOMMA came home one day to find the snackfairy and :fruit: :redneck: apwa packageless fairy in bed toghether,with the apwa packageless fairy slippin the snack fairy his MEASLY, LIMP,PATHETIC EXCUSE of a packageless ,and the snack fairy 'snackin': on the package less fairy, while the :snaggletooth: :redneck: toothless fairy was under their pillow, for a $150.00 fee,MOMMA threw all three of the ****'s out on their tu-tu's.must have been 'apwa gay pride day'.
 
Positive Reinforcement

Skeeter said:
Anyone have any positive remarks about the new company. Instead of the same ones bashing Overnite and now the new UPSF.

I think the tightening up and all the changes are going to be good for the company and people.
Skeeter, day three and all is well. Freight has taken a big jump up in the frozen barrens of N.E. Mgmt is getting their a$$es handed to them in a basket from Big Brother. Only fitting to have them squirm since Brown has given them the keys to the safe. They better run it like a freight company and turn a constant profit or they won't be hidding out here long. We were told to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Which means more new hires, equipment (rentals), new routes and line haul runs and whatever else. We are hearing of some pretty big operational changes coming next Monday. Mums the word in management. They are learning to keep their mouths shut. We think it has to do with a central dispatch system and sales. Who knows. Oh and our drive for representation, 3/4 of the barn now will vote yes. Give that till the end of the month and we should be closer to 90%. Great huh?:bgroovy:
 
I've been delivering small packages,I had a 4 lb box it had the wrong address,a regular UPS package truck could have turned around in the customers driveway and just went about 400 feet to deliver it to the right place.
Same company 2 buildings on the same street.
My route trailer is 48 feet,and I had to drive around the block,I lost about 20 minutes
I hope the UPS corperate typs get a clue about the difference between packages,and freight.
 
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