Whataboutism

Discussion in 'Politics' started by icuicp, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. icuicp

    icuicp Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,205
    Likes Received:
    1,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This tactic of whataboutism has been around since the Cold War ( according to the Wikipedia article )

    Now , you read that President Trump practices this tactic of propaganda as well as Russians like Vladimir Putin.

    Is it possible to defend President Trump without using Whataboutism? Is it possible to support President Trump with facts , highlighting the President's accomplishments without referencing someone else that is not President? Is it possible to speak of and focus on the advancements President Trump has made , and let that stand?

    Personally , I see those that follow President Trump blindly as meaning well but , a variety of snowflake. By constantly bringing up anyone else when President Trump is opposed or criticized , it weakens the President's public stance.

    Unlike any other President before him , President Trump follows the people that support him and what they want. While being a leader , he responds to his supporters - if you have all these snowflakey supporters of President Trump crying about spilled milk , it's where the President will go too. It's also a waste.

    He won the election in 2016. Crying about who didn't win and/or who used to be President is useless to where we should be leading our current President to focus his energy.

    ___________________________________________
    From Wikipedia "Whataboutism" article

    Use by Donald Trump

    Critics say that U.S. President Donald Trump has engaged in whataboutism in response to criticism leveled at him, his policies, or his support of controversial world leaders. National Public Radio (NPR) reported, "President Trump has developed a consistent tactic when he's criticized: say that someone else is worse." NPR noted Trump chose to criticize the Affordable Care Act when he himself faced criticism over the proposed American Health Care Act of 2017, "Instead of giving a reasoned defense, he went for blunt offense, which is a hallmark of whataboutism."NPR noted similarities in use of the tactic by Putin and Trump, "it's no less striking that while Putin's Russia is causing the Trump administration so much trouble, Trump nevertheless often sounds an awful lot like Putin."

    When criticized or asked to defend his behavior, Trump has frequently changed the subject by criticizing Hillary Clinton, the Obama Administration, and the Affordable Care Act. When asked about Russian human rights violations, Trump has shifted focus to the U.S. itself, employing whataboutism tactics similar to those used by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    After Fox News host Bill O'Reilly and MSNBC host Joe Scarborough called Putin a killer, Trump responded by saying that the U.S. government was also guilty of killing people. Garry Kasparov commented to Columbia Journalism Review on Trump's use of whataboutism: "Moral relativism, 'whataboutism,' has always been a favorite weapon of illiberal regimes. For a US president to employ it against his own country is tragic."

    Mother Jones compared Trump's use of whataboutism to Putin, and consulted Columbia University School of International and Public Affairs Russian scholar Dmitry Dubrovsky for his analysis.Dubrovsky noted usage of the tactic by Trump and Putin, as well as by Marine Le Pen, as a way "to destroy the democratic values of the truth."Mother Jones wrote, "In Trump’s version of whataboutism, he repeatedly takes a word leveled in criticism against him and turns it back on his opponents—sidestepping the accusation and undercutting the meaning of the word at the same time."
     
    pilot87 and Magoo like this.
  2. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

    Messages:
    19,329
    Likes Received:
    4,925
    Trophy Points:
    113
    His defender's here use the same tactic, we constantly are told something about Obama or Hillary.
    But neither one of them are President.

    Is Mr Mueller investigating Hillary or Obama?
    No I don't think he is
     
    pilot87 likes this.
  3. SAC75

    SAC75 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,915
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yawn! Another attack on Trump. What's new crybabies?
     
    buffalobill likes this.
  4. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,685
    Likes Received:
    3,400
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's the first thing they do (most)..... It's the easiest "defense" when you don't have a defense.... Lol..... " but.....but..... Obama....but...Clinton.....but Lincoln was a Republican...."...

    Ohh...and this gem quoted below...You get my point... Comical at times...


    Yawn....same old zero thought post......

    I don't expect anyone has to agree with me....but it makes it a little more fun if a little thought goes into it.......
     
    Magoo likes this.
  5. Bubba74

    Bubba74 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    8,029
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A defense?
    the Russia investigation is nothing more than a witch hunt in an attempt to overturn an election
    It has been stated by several members of the intelligence community that there is no evidence
    yet the drumbeat goes on wasting time, energy, and money
    show some evidence for the months of investigations and the millions of dollars

    proof not "some source said" proof hard tangible proof
    don't have any because there isn't any
     
    Northern Flash and SAC75 like this.
  6. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

    Messages:
    19,329
    Likes Received:
    4,925
    Trophy Points:
    113

    If and when Mueller brings a good case, I would expect some of you fellers to do a little soul searching.
     
    pilot87 likes this.
  7. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,685
    Likes Received:
    3,400
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No....they won't..... They've already been programmed to "think" and proclaim it as "fake news"...

    Trump has " taught " them well!...
     
    Magoo likes this.
  8. Bubba74

    Bubba74 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    8,029
    Trophy Points:
    113
    what if?
    do it where is all this "evidence"
    I grow tired of the talking head going on and on with no evidence
    prove your case

    I think the title of this thread should be the double standards in America
    one set of rules for the right one set of rules for the left

    I think what it has become is the people in flyover country have grown tired of being told how we should think, how we should act and what we should believe. The actual resistance is on the right, we are tired of all of our "sacred cows" being destroyed and being told we are wrong
    Trump says what a lot of people believe especially concerning the MSM and leftist policies
     
    Northern Flash and SAC75 like this.
  9. icuicp

    icuicp Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,205
    Likes Received:
    1,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Conservatives are supposed to be the adults in the room. Lead by example.

    When it's pointed out that the President is selling hats that he wears to a disaster area someone that supports President Trump says how about he rents the Lincoln Bedroom?

    President Trump has an entire hotel just blocks away that he was supposed to contractually not have as soon as he was sworn in.

    I try to defend President Trump without using Whataboutism.
     
    Magoo likes this.
  10. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,685
    Likes Received:
    3,400
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well there ya go....."several members of the intelligence community"...... Say no more!....

    That's why the investigation is being done.... These are serious charges and it needs to be gotten to the bottom of.... None of you "conservatives" ever complained about the time and cost of an investigation before.... Finding the truth, what ever it might be, should be important to all you "law and order" people.... Be patient..... Remember, if he's not guilty of any crime, he shouldn't have anything to hide or fear....right?? Sound familiar?.. Personally, I hope he's innocent... Treason is a serious matter and any investigation shouldn't be hurried or obstructed....but should be assiduous in bringing out all the details and done in a sedulous manner...

    If he is guilty and there is "hard tangible" facts that are provable and proven......then he should be punished accordingly..... I'm sure we can agree on that......

    Yes....not "some source said".... Or, "several members of the intelligence community said"....

    I think, the vast majority, if not all of his most ardent followers have already been preprogrammed to write off any real evidence as just " fake news".... So nothing will be the truth.....unless it's been approved for them by Trump himself and no doubt in the form of a "tweet"...
     
  11. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,685
    Likes Received:
    3,400
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No doubt, millions of people are frustrated and tired of politicians and their propaganda.... And Trump is there telling his loyal followers exactly what they want to hear and exploit that for his own agenda and those like him...... Now they just have Trump telling them what to think and what to believe..... Nothings changed in that regard.... As far as being told what to think and believe... That is exactly what Right wing radio and T.V programing does.....just like Left wing media does...... I'm sure you don't listen to left programs....and you don't believe the "MSM".... So what does that leave you with.... telling you "what to Think and believe"?

    It's not just "conservatives".... The Sanders followers are of the same mind set.... Resist the established " norm" of bought off and Corporate politicians...... They just differ in whom they believe will make their lives better....


    Trump isn't a "sacred cow"........and he isn't your voice....... But he sure makes some people think he is.....

    He knows what you want to hear and tells you exactly that..... He is a politician...and he wants power and he wants adoration even more, so it seems......
     
  12. SAC75

    SAC75 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,915
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Just because he is president doesn't mean he can't own anything, number one. Number two, is he can't control his properties or use them for political favors. The news would be all over him for using this as a political stepping stone. Number 3 downtown Houston is under water. Number 4, does he own the Houston hotel, or did he build it for investors? You have no proof he owns it. I can't find it anywhere other than him building one on the old post office in Houston in 2014.
    https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...ally-increase-floods-recede-article-1.3451820
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  13. Northern Flash

    Northern Flash OBAMA'S CREATION.

    Messages:
    34,311
    Likes Received:
    12,199
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We constantly expose your hypocrisy. Nothing more, nothing less.
    You whine about everything Trump or his administration does, yet Obama's did the same thing and you said nothing.
    Your hypocrisy is out of this world.

    Mueller is in the midst of an investigation, in search of a crime. That's not how it is supposed to work.
     
  14. Northern Flash

    Northern Flash OBAMA'S CREATION.

    Messages:
    34,311
    Likes Received:
    12,199
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And after over a year of no results, I would have expected your side to shut about the Russian issue and save some face, but nooooooo.
     
  15. Northern Flash

    Northern Flash OBAMA'S CREATION.

    Messages:
    34,311
    Likes Received:
    12,199
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You make a good point here, although unintended. The Conservatives are the adults and the Liberals are the two year old's with the snotty nose. Just look how they are behaving for the proof.

    The hypocrisy coming from the left is deafening. If it's the Republicans it's evil, if the Dems do the same thing, you guys run cover for them.
    It's called hypocrisy.
     
    SAC75 likes this.
  16. SAC75

    SAC75 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,915
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They have to try to make up rules because they can't win on their own facts. Sore losers means they have to make up whataboutism. Someone just made the word up but it's fact because it was in Wikipedia. You know, the sight that anyone can change if they type it in.
     
  17. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,685
    Likes Received:
    3,400
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another example of "Whataboutism".... Some just can't stop themselves...

    One thing I'd like to point out.... You claim that Obama " destroyed" America......but now you say Obama did the same thing as Trump is now doing....and you now love it.....??..

    Either you're a very conflicted person or you just blurt out stuff without any apparent thought going into it....or both....
     
    Magoo likes this.
  18. Northern Flash

    Northern Flash OBAMA'S CREATION.

    Messages:
    34,311
    Likes Received:
    12,199
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep. The left realizes that they have lost the battle of ideas, so now all they do is whine about piddly :shit:.
     
    SAC75 likes this.
  19. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,685
    Likes Received:
    3,400
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The term "whataboutisum" has been around for a long time...... Here's what it means....and how it applies to you and others who also use it.... Pay attention now... Whataboutism describes the process of trying to discredit an opponent's actions or behavior by calling them hypocrites without directly refuting their argument ....and that old tactic of propaganda is something that was employed by the old Soviet Union .....When criticisms were made about the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by something the USA did...or some other Western ally..... Now flash forward to today and take note how often "what about Obama" or Clinton... or any Democrat, for that matter, is uttered as means to "defend" by deflection the actions of those you support without having to try and disprove the argument....using the charge of "hypocrisy" as a means to excuse your "flavor" of politician...

    The "sight"?... Lol... Since you're attempting to demonstrate your "genius " here, allow me to correct you and your word usage.... The term you should be using is "site"... not " sight"..... .. Now to my point, if you can just go in there and make a change.... I challenge YOU to just go on Wilkipedia and change it to anything you wish it to be....then post the link here so we can all see the works of your erudition.... Ok?.... .. But in the meantime, go ahead and see how you use "whataboutism" all to frequently without you ever knowing you've been doing it....
     
    Magoo likes this.
  20. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,685
    Likes Received:
    3,400
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Check your own behavior and comments Mr. "Snotty nose, lets kill millions of Americans".... You're definitely NOT one of " the adults" in the room.....
     

Share This Page