WHO SHOULD PAY AND HOW MUCH?

[papajohn]

UPS teamsters with less than twenty years in cspf took a 69% pension cut. not a 40 or a 50 or a 60 percent cut. that after UPS paid a 6 billion dollar withdraw penalty. do you wonder why UPS protested

You better look that up again. UPS Teamsters that retired after 2008 are not included in the cuts. and those that retired before 2008, were included in the cuts, UPS Retirees cuts were comparable to others taking the cuts.

UPS is going to fight this because those who retired after 2008 at age 65 will be paid by UPS, and CSPF. If CSPF were to cut those that retiree after 2008, UPS has to make up the difference that the Retirees would lose at age 65.

 

[nounionfool]

NO U FULL I feel like (⊙▃⊙) or a PERVERT, because I went to your personal information page. it is hard to believe you are only 4 years older than I. we definitely see things differently. that does not mean we still cannot be civil to each other!

Just because you feel like a (⊙▃⊙) or pervert because you checked out someone's personal information is your problem. Here's a tidbit of information for you to consider, it's not personal information if it's on a public site. It's there for a reason, to compare the profile to the consistency of what members post. In other words, it's a way to check if someone really is who they are claiming to be, which by the way, you found out the hard way. A person can only live out a lie for so long.

And here you are, wanting to be civil to each other now. Do you actually expect that I would be civil and reasonable with anyone who showed his utmost contempt by his unwillingness and flat out refusal to answer my questions? You may think that's acceptable, I don't. I treat people like they treat me, always did and always will!

So, here we are for the eighth time now.

So far I have asked you these questions seven times. Here comes number eight. Who are the ones that based an 8% rate of return? Who are the fiduciaries of the CSPF? Who are the ones that appointed the fiduciaries and how long ago? Who were the ones who were to be overlooking the fund? Who is responsible for pension funds that were set up in a way that they were guaranteed to lose with that return of 8% that you do nothing but repeat and under who's watch did this all take place?

And all that you could muster up was some gibberish about the discount rate and how the government makes pension funds use this rate to determine the funding % of their funds, rambling on about the Rule of 72, how Michael Hudson uses 8.5% in the transcript, nonsense about nurses and beer, Hoffa Jr letting ups out the pension fund, wanting to talk about RPS and now wanting us to be civil and something about you feeling like a (⊙▃⊙) and pervert.

 

[Banned for Life]

You better look that up again. UPS Teamsters that retired after 2008 are not included in the cuts. and those that retired before 2008, were included in the cuts, UPS Retirees cuts were comparable to others taking the cuts.

UPS is going to fight this because those who retired after 2008 at age 65 will be paid by UPS, and CSPF. If CSPF were to cut those that retiree after 2008, UPS has to make up the difference that the Retirees would lose at age 65.

just because ups is going to make up the amount. does not mean the cut did not happen. money does not grow on trees at ups. that 3 billion extra dollars ups figures it will have to pay(on top of the 6 billion they already payed) will have to come from some where. REMEMBER UPS HAS TO COMPETE AGAINST R.P.S. private contractors. thanks old timers for that

 

[Banned for Life]

Just because you feel like a (⊙▃⊙) or pervert because you checked out someone's personal information is your problem. Here's a tidbit of information for you to consider, it's not personal information if it's on a public site. It's there for a reason, to compare the profile to the consistency of what members post. In other words, it's a way to check if someone really is who they are claiming to be, which by the way, you found out the hard way. A person can only live out a lie for so long.

And here you are, wanting to be civil to each other now. Do you actually expect that I would be civil and reasonable with anyone who showed his utmost contempt by his unwillingness and flat out refusal to answer my questions? You may think that's acceptable, I don't. I treat people like they treat me, always did and always will!

So, here we are for the eighth time now.

So far I have asked you these questions seven times. Here comes number eight. Who are the ones that based an 8% rate of return? Who are the fiduciaries of the CSPF? Who are the ones that appointed the fiduciaries and how long ago? Who were the ones who were to be overlooking the fund? Who is responsible for pension funds that were set up in a way that they were guaranteed to lose with that return of 8% that you do nothing but repeat and under who's watch did this all take place?

And all that you could muster up was some gibberish about the discount rate and how the government makes pension funds use this rate to determine the funding % of their funds, rambling on about the Rule of 72, how Michael Hudson uses 8.5% in the transcript, nonsense about nurses and beer, Hoffa Jr letting ups out the pension fund, wanting to talk about RPS and now wanting us to be civil and something about you feeling like a (⊙▃⊙) and pervert.

NO U FULL, your efforts to woo the actives has failed. perhaps your friends can convince you to quit posting. I feel it would be best for your cause!

 

[nounionfool]

just because ups is going to make up the amount. does not mean the cut did not happen. money does not grow on trees at ups. that 3 billion extra dollars ups figures it will have to pay(on top of the 6 billion they already payed) will have to come from some where. REMEMBER UPS HAS TO COMPETE AGAINST R.P.S. private contractors. thanks old timers for that

If you stuck up for the working class like you do for the companies, Wall Street bankers and the government, I think that we could actually be civil towards each other. The working class are the ones that needs more representation because the companies, Wall Street bankers and the government are doing mighty fine looking out for themselves and each other.

 

[Banned for Life]

You better look that up again. UPS Teamsters that retired after 2008 are not included in the cuts. and those that retired before 2008, were included in the cuts, UPS Retirees cuts were comparable to others taking the cuts.

UPS is going to fight this because those who retired after 2008 at age 65 will be paid by UPS, and CSPF. If CSPF were to cut those that retiree after 2008, UPS has to make up the difference that the Retirees would lose at age 65.

NO you are WRONG, cspf uses contributory not service pension at age 65, the amount of the cut is 69% get your facts straight. it is time you quit spreading propaganda. you are failing like NO U FOOL in wooing the actives to stay in the fund.

 

[nounionfool]

NO U FULL, your efforts to woo the actives has failed. perhaps your friends can convince you to quit posting. I feel it would be best for your cause!

So far I have asked you these questions eight times. Here comes number nine. Who are the ones that based an 8% rate of return? Who are the fiduciaries of the CSPF? Who are the ones that appointed the fiduciaries and how long ago? Who were the ones who were to be overlooking the fund? Who is responsible for pension funds that were set up in a way that they were guaranteed to lose with that return of 8% that you do nothing but repeat and under who's watch did this all take place?

And all that you could muster up was some gibberish about the discount rate and how the government makes pension funds use this rate to determine the funding % of their funds, rambling on about the Rule of 72, how Michael Hudson uses 8.5% in the transcript, nonsense about nurses and beer, Hoffa Jr letting ups out the pension fund, wanting to talk about RPS, wanting us to be civil and something about you feeling like a (⊙▃⊙) and pervert and now something about me wanting to woo the actives.

 

[Banned for Life]

If you stuck up for the working class like you do for the companies, Wall Street bankers and the government, I think that we could actually be civil towards each other. The working class are the ones that needs more representation because the companies, Wall Street bankers and the government are doing mighty fine looking out for themselves and each other.

last time I checked it was Obama that bailed out the wall street bankers

 

[nounionfool]

If you stuck up for the working class like you do for the companies, Wall Street bankers and the government, I think that we could actually be civil towards each other. The working class are the ones that needs more representation because the companies, Wall Street bankers and the government are doing mighty fine looking out for themselves and each other.

last time I checked it was Obama that bailed out the wall street bankers

That's what I said, The working class are the ones that needs more representation because the companies, Wall Street bankers and the government are doing mighty fine looking out for themselves and each other. And the last time I checked, Obama is part of the government, wouldn't you say?

 

[papajohn]

UPS Teamsters that retired after 2008 did not get cut, and as far as I know, not all UPS Teamsters that retired before 2008 took the cut either. Not Sure!!!

UPS teamsters with less than twenty years in cspf took a 69% pension cut. not a 40 or a 50 or a 60 percent cut. that after UPS paid a 6 billion dollar withdraw penalty. do you wonder why UPS protested

You better look that up again. UPS Teamsters that retired after 2008 are not included in the cuts. and those that retired before 2008, were included in the cuts, UPS Retirees cuts were comparable to others taking the cuts.
UPS is going to fight this because those who retired after 2008 at age 65 will be paid by UPS, and CSPF. If CSPF were to cut those that retiree after 2008, UPS has to make up the difference that the Retirees would lose at age 65.

NO you are WRONG, cspf uses contributory not service pension at age 65, the amount of the cut is 69% get your facts straight. it is time you quit spreading propaganda. you are failing like NO U FOOL in wooing the actives to stay in the fund.

More propaganda!!! You have proven time and time again that you don’t know what you’re talking about.


For those who went into the new plan, UPS will pay their pension until they reach the age of 65, then most of it (about 90%) will fall back on Central States. At that point, retirees will get 2 checks one from UPS and one from CS. If Central States is not in good shape and cannot meet their obligations to these retirees, then UPS will make up the difference to guarantee your full pension amount for the rest of your life. UPS is assuming this obligation until age 65 to remove retirees from the CS re-employment restrictions, which are quite severe. Those restrictions are removed at CS at age 65. It was one of the selling points to get UPSers to accept the UPS pension plan.


Those who remained in the CS Plan and did not go to the UPS/IBT Plan are at the mercy of Central States and their full pension amount is not guaranteed. Under the Pension Reform Act of 2006, Central States will never be allowed to fold up and let their obligations fall on the Govt. Pension Guar. Corp. Central States will always have to remain in existence and pay pensions at whatever level they can afford. It could be the full amounts or any percentage thereof.


When did the UPS/IBT Plan become effective?A:The UPS/IBT Plan became effective on January 1, 2008.

Why would I receive more than one pension check?A:The UPS/IBT Plan pays your entire benefit prior to your Normal Retirement Date. At your Normal Retirement Date, you will receive your benefit from a combination of the UPS/IBT Plan and the CSPF.


If the CSPF reduced the benefit I am receiving, would UPS make up the difference in my retirement benefit?A:Yes.

Why did UPS and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) agree to withdraw UPS employees from the Central States, Southeast and Southwest Areas Pension Fund (CSPF) and set up a plan for UPS employees only?

The new UPS/IBT Full-Time Employee Pension Plan (later referred to as the "UPS/IBT Plan" or the "Plan") immediately restored retirement benefits to levels that were available to participants before the CSPF modified benefits in 2003. A main feature of the UPS/IBT Plan is that it restored the Service Pension which allows an employee to retire with defined years of service at a guaranteed benefit level, such as the 20-, 25- and 30-Year Service Pensions (also known as the 20-and-out, 25-and-out and 30-and-out pensions). This means that employees may begin to receive unreduced benefits at an earlier age. Additionally, the UPS/IBT Plan offers opportunities to retire with greater benefits in the future under a Normal Retirement situation.

Nowhere does it say that UPS Teamsters are taking a 69% cut!!! Provide proof of your claim.

Nice try… Stop spreading your propaganda!!!

 

[Banned for Life]

More propaganda!!! You have proven time and time again that you don’t know what you’re talking about.


For those who went into the new plan, UPS will pay their pension until they reach the age of 65, then most of it (about 90%) will fall back on Central States. At that point, retirees will get 2 checks one from UPS and one from CS. If Central States is not in good shape and cannot meet their obligations to these retirees, then UPS will make up the difference to guarantee your full pension amount for the rest of your life. UPS is assuming this obligation until age 65 to remove retirees from the CS re-employment restrictions, which are quite severe. Those restrictions are removed at CS at age 65. It was one of the selling points to get UPSers to accept the UPS pension plan.


Those who remained in the CS Plan and did not go to the UPS/IBT Plan are at the mercy of Central States and their full pension amount is not guaranteed. Under the Pension Reform Act of 2006, Central States will never be allowed to fold up and let their obligations fall on the Govt. Pension Guar. Corp. Central States will always have to remain in existence and pay pensions at whatever level they can afford. It could be the full amounts or any percentage thereof.


When did the UPS/IBT Plan become effective?A:The UPS/IBT Plan became effective on January 1, 2008.

Why would I receive more than one pension check?A:The UPS/IBT Plan pays your entire benefit prior to your Normal Retirement Date. At your Normal Retirement Date, you will receive your benefit from a combination of the UPS/IBT Plan and the CSPF.


If the CSPF reduced the benefit I am receiving, would UPS make up the difference in my retirement benefit?A:Yes.

Why did UPS and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) agree to withdraw UPS employees from the Central States, Southeast and Southwest Areas Pension Fund (CSPF) and set up a plan for UPS employees only?

The new UPS/IBT Full-Time Employee Pension Plan (later referred to as the "UPS/IBT Plan" or the "Plan") immediately restored retirement benefits to levels that were available to participants before the CSPF modified benefits in 2003. A main feature of the UPS/IBT Plan is that it restored the Service Pension which allows an employee to retire with defined years of service at a guaranteed benefit level, such as the 20-, 25- and 30-Year Service Pensions (also known as the 20-and-out, 25-and-out and 30-and-out pensions). This means that employees may begin to receive unreduced benefits at an earlier age. Additionally, the UPS/IBT Plan offers opportunities to retire with greater benefits in the future under a Normal Retirement situation.

Nowhere does it say that UPS Teamsters are taking a 69% cut!!! Provide proof of your claim.

Nice try… Stop spreading your propaganda!!!

I do feel sorry for you, UPS pays everything due and you somehow try to blame Hoffa and ups for cspf demise. it was the remedial reforms of the pension protection act of 2006 that was the impetuous of ups leaving cspf. I.E. not being able to retire before 65 without your pension being reduced. as you may or may not know it is much cheaper to pay a pension than workman's compensation. the amount of their pension "that falls back on cspf" is determined by how many years that driver has in the fund. where did you get about 90%? the amount cspf pays at 65 is based on the contributory pension NOT the service pension. therefore drivers with less than 20 years in cspf would have had their pension cut 69% if the reduction plan went through. THAT IS WHY UPS said wait a minute we already paid EVERYTHING DUE. please get your facts straight.

 

[Banned for Life]

PAPA JOHN,NO U FOOL the new name of this thread is WHY IS IT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE ACTIVES TO STAY IN THE CSPF.

 

[papajohn]

I do feel sorry for you, UPS pays everything due and you somehow try to blame Hoffa and ups for cspf demise. it was the remedial reforms of the pension protection act of 2006 that was the impetuous of ups leaving cspf. I.E. not being able to retire before 65 without your pension being reduced. as you may or may not know it is much cheaper to pay a pension than workman's compensation. the amount of their pension "that falls back on cspf" is determined by how many years that driver has in the fund. where did you get about 90%? the amount cspf pays at 65 is based on the contributory pension NOT the service pension. therefore drivers with less than 20 years in cspf would have had their pension cut 69% if the reduction plan went through. THAT IS WHY UPS said wait a minute we already paid EVERYTHING DUE. please get your facts straight.

Provide proof to your claim that UPS employees who retired under the age of 65 with 20 years contributory contributions or less are taking a 69% pension cut. Is there an age requirement for an UPS Teamster who wants to retire with 20 years and less before, and after 2008?

 

[papajohn]

PAPA JOHN,NO U FOOL the new name of this thread is WHY IS IT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE ACTIVES TO STAY IN THE CSPF.

Sorry your thread is WHO SHOULD PAY AND HOW MUCH! You can't change the thread name just because it don't go the way you want it to!!!

"]PAPA JOHN,NO U FOOL the new name of this thread is WHY IS IT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE ACTIVES TO STAY IN THE CSPF.[/QUOTE]

First of all you don't have a choice!!! Actives will not be able to withdraw from Central States Pension Fund without paying a Withdrawal penalty. Fighting is your best chance to draw your pension when you reach the minimum requirements... And for you at being age 34 you will have a long time to keep paying in.

You just don't get it, Retirees are fighting to save the pension for everybody... NOT JUST FOR CURRENT RETIREES!!!

 

[yrc-atm]

Sorry your thread is WHO SHOULD PAY AND HOW MUCH! You can't change the thread name just because it don't go the way you want it to!!!

"]PAPA JOHN,NO U FOOL the new name of this thread is WHY IS IT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE ACTIVES TO STAY IN THE CSPF.

You just don't get it, Retirees are fighting to save the pension for everybody... NOT JUST FOR CURRENT RETIREES!!![/QUOTE]
Wrong they are only worried about themselves.

 

[SAC75]

Sorry your thread is WHO SHOULD PAY AND HOW MUCH! You can't change the thread name just because it don't go the way you want it to!!!

"]PAPA JOHN,NO U FOOL the new name of this thread is WHY IS IT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE ACTIVES TO STAY IN THE CSPF.

I'm with fixing this thing but YRCW doen't pay anything into the WSPF. Why do they get a free ride? They did not pay withdrawal liability as far as I know. That is something that needs to be looked into also.

 

[Banned for Life]

Provide proof to your claim that UPS employees who retired under the age of 65 with 20 years contributory contributions or less are taking a 69% pension cut. Is there an age requirement for an UPS Teamster who wants to retire with 20 years and less before, and after 2008?

a service pension was 100 for a year a contributory pension would have been about 129 for a year. the mpra proposal would have paid 39.33 110% of pbgc. ups is not on the hook for 100 - 39.33, they are on the hook for 129-39.33. P.J. you can get the whole UPS/IBT pension agreement from one of the appendix's in the mpra application to the treasury dept. remember P.J. have your ducks in a row before you go after someone.

 

[papajohn]

a service pension was 100 for a year a contributory pension would have been about 129 for a year. the mpra proposal would have paid 39.33 110% of pbgc. ups is not on the hook for 100 - 39.33, they are on the hook for 129-39.33. P.J. you can get the whole UPS/IBT pension agreement from one of the appendix's in the mpra application to the treasury dept. remember P.J. have your ducks in a row before you go after someone.

More Gibberish!!! You did not answer my question. Why I wonder, because you only spread propaganda, and your word means nothing. If you are going to post something as fact... Back it up with proof!!!

 

[papajohn]

I'm with fixing this thing but YRCW doen't pay anything into the WSPF. Why do they get a free ride? They did not pay withdrawal liability as far as I know. That is something that needs to be looked into also.

Your right SAC75!!! YRCW Teamsters were dropped by WSPF around 2009-2010 for no payments. Do you know if YRCW is paying into a 401K, or another pension plan for Western States Teamsters?

 

[papajohn]

You just don't get it, Retirees are fighting to save the pension for everybody... NOT JUST FOR CURRENT RETIREES!!!

Wrong they are only worried about themselves.[/QUOTE]

Can you prove this to be true... Have you ever been to a meeting? Your blind assumptions is clouding your judgement. Your posts are all derogatory, and negative without facts. Grow up kid, and quit assuming unless you can back it up!!!