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TForce | Winter has arrived/PA. charging drivers for snow on roofs.

GLAD TO BE_UPSF said:
Incident free you would be correct.....
but ad property damage and/or death or injury due to falling Snow/ice.... They will fire you faster than you can utter your stewards name.
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I am sure this is a good possibility when you bring property damage and or death into the picture.

The question remains, for all the terminals (and there are many of them) that do not have any way of clearing snow from the roof tops, do we shut the terminals down until the company finds away to have the trailer roof tops cleared of all snow and Ice? Even one inch of snow can be deadly. One inch of snow on a trailer and then sits during the day and melts, then it turns to ice when the sun go's down. This is very dangerous, more dangerous than snow and this happens more often then not. I think we should just shut down during the winter months.:biglaugh:
 
I do have a question, How would u handle this a a pick-up where we drop and hook.. I guess you could call dispatch and tell them to send someone out to clean it off.
 
LCP771 said:
I do have a question, How would u handle this a a pick-up where we drop and hook.. I guess you could call dispatch and tell them to send someone out to clean it off.
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If a trailer is unsafe out somewhere and you are sent to pick it up. Do you call the dispatch and inform him that the trailer is unsafe to pull but you will somehow get it to the yard.

Or do you say you can't pull it and make some kind of arrangements with the shipper.

Same thing with snow and ice on the trailer. It is unsafe to pull. If someone is stupid enough to pull it anyway should be wrote up along with the ticket that person should receive.

You are the professional and are expected to act like it.
 
Amen to that my brother.
When I was still a city driver I would be threatened to haul the trailers with snow,and not to worry about it.
Now that you all are dues payers at least you have some leverage to do an illegal act,or not.
And to all of those that say the union is no good what recourse does any one have in a case like this issue without representation?
 
Apostolic said:
Amen to that my brother.
When I was still a city driver I would be threatened to haul the trailers with snow,and not to worry about it.
Now that you all are dues payers at least you have some leverage to do an illegal act,or not.
And to all of those that say the union is no good what recourse does any one have in a case like this issue without representation?
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This isn't a union non union issue.

If it is illegal to pull...you don't pull it.
If they cant find someone to remove the snow, you go to a hotel at their expense.

I know of guys that called central to get an outside vender and or went to bed... prior to being union...and there were no repercussions.
 
Well hay I guess every terminal is different in what a TM will try to get their workers to do.

Legal to turn down a snow,and ice covered trailer no question.
However I still say you as a worker are a lot better off having a steward in your corner.
Maybe just my opinion?
 
LCP771 said:
At ups we have our trailer scraped or we don't pull them it's that simple. We have the Union backing us on this as it is a safety issue and goes against our record if stoped.

The law is the law so i can't see how you can get fired for refusing to pull a trailer that the Co. doesn't scrap when asked
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I have worked at one of the furthest north terminals for over 15 years. I have never heard of a driver not pulling a trailer up here because of snow on the roof. The snow gets knocked off pretty quick going under the overpasses. If you have ice on the roof it is only about an inch thick, how do you see what is up there? I have lost a windshield when another truck passed me once and ice came up off his roof. I realize this is a problem, but I alway just accepted it as one of the dangers of working up north. I have trouble imagining drivers climbing up a ladder to look for ice on the roof. And snow blows off pretty quick, I don't drive close to trailers with snow falling off the roof.

I have only seen one of those snow scrapers, it was at a window company near Wausau Wi. It looked cool but if you don't have a front end loader to clean the snow away after it is scraped, does the next driver have to shovel to get his trailer under it?

So why is this a problem now and it wasn't a problem before? If the police on the turnpike thought it was a problem they wouldn't have just turned the trucks around with snow on the roof, they would have made them scrape it right there at the tunnel. If the truck is unsafe going one way, wouldn't it be unsafe going the other?
 
brigpilgrim said:
I have worked at one of the furthest north terminals for over 15 years. I have never heard of a driver not pulling a trailer up here because of snow on the roof. The snow gets knocked off pretty quick going under the overpasses. If you have ice on the roof it is only about an inch thick, how do you see what is up there? I have lost a windshield when another truck passed me once and ice came up off his roof. I realize this is a problem, but I alway just accepted it as one of the dangers of working up north. I have trouble imagining drivers climbing up a ladder to look for ice on the roof. And snow blows off pretty quick, I don't drive close to trailers with snow falling off the roof.

I have only seen one of those snow scrapers, it was at a window company near Wausau Wi. It looked cool but if you don't have a front end loader to clean the snow away after it is scraped, does the next driver have to shovel to get his trailer under it?

So why is this a problem now and it wasn't a problem before? If the police on the turnpike thought it was a problem they wouldn't have just turned the trucks around with snow on the roof, they would have made them scrape it right there at the tunnel. If the truck is unsafe going one way, wouldn't it be unsafe going the other?
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I would say this is becoming more of a problem up here in New England because it has been made law recently in many states, that its illegal to drive any vehicle with snow on top. There are many TV commercials and road side signs that says its illegal and that the police will be enforcing this new law. The company clearly does not want any employee climbing ladders to remove snow. I have spoken to the safety dept about this. They have said that they want you to use the drive through roof scraper if there is one available. As far as I know, only NBR and HRS has one. The big question remains, who gets the ticket? I think we are going to find out in the next few days.
 
Brig, the reason they were turned around is they were over height according to the sensors. If you have any snow on the roof (13-6), you won't make it onto the PA turnpike. There are no snow scrapers to take it off at these locations. I do not think the snow/ice issue is being enforced. Just my opinion. BUT if/when someone gets hurt or dies that will change. I don't want to be the driver involved in making it change. If anyone thinks they could hurt/kill someone without remorse have at it. Also just because us drivers recognize the danger and stay away from trailers loaded with junk, does not mean the average motoring public sees this danger.
 
Roadrunner73 said:
Brig, the reason they were turned around is they were over height according to the sensors. If you have any snow on the roof (13-6), you won't make it onto the PA turnpike. There are no snow scrapers to take it off at these locations. I do not think the snow/ice issue is being enforced. Just my opinion. BUT if/when someone gets hurt or dies that will change. I don't want to be the driver involved in making it change. If anyone thinks they could hurt/kill someone without remorse have at it. Also just because us drivers recognize the danger and stay away from trailers loaded with junk, does not mean the average motoring public sees this danger.
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That is what I mean, if they were only worried about the snow causing the truck to be over height, wouldn't it have made more sense to put a scraper on the toll road? I have never seen a truck get stuck in a tunnel because of snow on the roof, but I see the need to watch for real over size loads. Traffic is already slowing down because the lights are going red. The police don't think it is a safety issue or they wouldn't have just turned the drivers around, they would have shut them down and required someone to come out and clean off the trailers.

I have put the question out here a couple times now, has anyone ever gotten a ticket for snow on the roof? Someone showed where you could get sued, but you can get sued for a lot of things. How are you going to see ice on the roof when it is only an inch thick, ice will do damage, snow just blows off. You can get sued for ice coming off the roof but there isn't too much you can do about it when you pick up a trailer.

I am looking at this from the perspective of the driver, you can't tell if there is ice on the roof. When they are loading at a heated dock, snow will melt and form ice when you pull away. It will blow off when you are running down the road. How do you prevent this if you can't get up on the roof to see it?

Snow will get knocked off at the first low bridge or from the wind when you are moving. Maybe where I work is the exception, but I have never seen a driver refuse to pull a trailer with snow on the roof. Maybe we just didn't know better up here.
 
I just posted a crash in the Trucking Accident Forum I found that was in West Virginia due to this issue of flying ice coming from a trailer roof.

However this article says no charges will be filed against the Semi driver.

http://www.truckingboards.com/truck...swerving-ice-off-trailer-roof.html#post781118

It seems W.VA. has no laws regarding this issue,maybe because they are so far down south and this could be a rare case for them in that state.
Just a guess.
 
It sounds like West Virginia has not adopted this law yet. Also Interesting was the fact that the falling/blowing snow and Ice that came off the tractor trailer did not hit the vehicle that crashed. The vehicle avoiding the snow and Ice lost control of his vehicle.
 
Read the NJ bill signed 10/2009

It's a start and I'm glad they are going to start cracking down on offenders.
Hopefully all trucking companies will have some plan of attack implemented by that day.
Hopefully us UPSers get some kind of clear cut explanation on how we proceed if we feel our snow covered trailers pose a risk to the general public. We should all be proactive on this and ask our management to answer our concerns.



On October 20th, Governor Corzine signed (S520/A1718) the Snow and Ice Removal bill into law. The new law requires a "reasonable attempt" (what is reasonable has yet to be defined) be made to remove snow and ice from ALL vehicles including commercial trucks following a snow storm..

While unsuccessful in stopping the bill NJMTA was able to get many amendments to minimize the impact such as......
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NJ Governor Signs Snow & Ice Bill into Law




S520 4R Requires drivers to make all reasonable efforts to remove ice or snow from vehicle; creates fine.

  • Law highlights
  • Drivers must make "reasonable efforts" to remove snow and ice or risk $25 to $75 fines.
  • Higher fines ranging from $200 (non-commercial drivers) to $1,500 (commercial drivers) remain in place if flying snow or ice causes damage or injury.
  • Fines will go to a state fund to build public awareness of the law, to collect crash data, to buy snow-removal equipment and establish a grant program to encourage private firms to make similar installations.
  • Effective date: Oct. 20, 2010

  • Exemptions
  • No one may be fined more than once daily.
  • Violations may not be imposed on parked vehicles.
  • Violations may not be imposed during a snowstorm.
  • Violations may not be imposed on commercial drivers on their way to snow-removal facilities.
 
This New Jersey law looks like a business opportunity for some one because you are permited to drive to a facility to have the snow cleaned off. But guess who runs the facility?

S520 4R

Moneys derived from the fines imposed pursuant to subsections a. and b. of this section shall be set aside in a special fund. From those moneys, amounts shall be appropriated by the Legislature for the following purposes:

It shall be the responsibility of the Department of Transportation, in consultation with the Division of Highway Traffic Safety in the Department of Law and Public Safety, to provide for the purchase and installation of such equipment and technology. Such equipment and technology shall be placed at locations around the State that are convenient and easily accessible to large trucks, tractor trailers, and other commercial motor vehicles, including, but not limited to, weigh stations, rest areas, and inspection facilities.......................................

also;

"To" establish a grant program to provide incentives to encourage private companies to purchase, install, and maintain equipment and technology to be used to remove snow and ice from commercial motor vehicles, as the term is defined in R.S.39:1-1. Recipients of grants provided pursuant to this subsection shall place snow and ice removal equipment and technology at locations around the State that are convenient and easily accessible to commercial motor vehicles, including, but not limited to, service areas, weigh stations, inspection facilities, ports, terminals, and other intermodal transportation facilities.
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This law makes sense in that they have a solution to get the snow and ice off the roof. But if you go through your state approved snow and ice removal center, then when you start driving down the road, a sheet of ice flies off your trailer through someones windshield, is the state responsible for the damage?

The law also addresses drivers who pick up trailers with snow and ice on the roof;

the person who is in physical possession of a motor vehicle at the time snow or ice accumulates on the exposed surfaces of the motor vehicle shall be responsible for removing the accumulated snow or ice from the exposed surfaces of the motor vehicle and shall be liable for a violation of the duty to remove accumulated snow or ice prior to operation of the motor vehicle pursuant to paragraph (1) of this subsection. If the driver of the motor vehicle was not in physical possession of the motor vehicle at the time the snow or ice accumulated, then such driver shall not be liable for a violation of paragraph (1) of this subsection.
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We will have to wait and see how this turns out.
 
Here is a ice through the windshield report out of Chicago,only a few hours old.


Flying ice from truck severely injures motorist - Chicago Breaking News

ice_victim_sensitive_612.jpg


Video>Suburban man may lose sight after accident - 1/06/10 - Chicago News - abc7chicago.com
 
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