XPO Con-Way pay raise.

Discussion in 'ABF Freight System' started by canaryinthemine, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. LS1GTO

    LS1GTO Former LTL driver turned package monkey...

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    Whether anyone is attached to their job or not is irrelevant... What really does matter is if you have gained some seniority, have a decent start time and run, and are working everyday. I have noticed a big difference in attitude having worked nonunion and union. On the union side, it feels like we are given more leeway to do our jobs with a lot shorter leash. We don't have an inbound supervisor at our terminal. We the drivers do the routing and break freight. We are not being hounded all of the time, therefore, there are less opportunities for dumb arguments and worrying about trying to get a stubborn manager or supervisor to understand what you are trying to say.

    Even though there is supposedly a driver shortage and one could get fired or laid off and go somewhere else, why would anyone want to have to worry about that constantly. I worry about being laid off from time to time, but that hasn't deterred me from wanting to leave a good union job for anything else. I do not worry about being fired for something stupid or getting into a pissing match with a sup because it just won't happen at a Teamster LTL barn. Now, does that mean I take advantage of this and go around acting like I am invincible? Absolutely not. Union or not, you should be acting responsibly and doing your job to the best of your ability everyday.

    I have read in some other nonunion company threads about what drivers dislike. Among that stuff is not knowing what run you will have from day to day, wondering if they will get 8 hours a day, dealing with a jerk off sup, favoritism, lack of uniform work rules and adherence to those rules, just to name a few. Under our union contract, those issues are all individually addressed and there is a grievance procedure in place should any of these be violated. Nonunions don't have this. You have to just deal with, no recourse on your part. I'm not sure why a lot of nonunion drivers are against Teamsters representation but I would love to entertain the argument. In my opinion there is more to gain than lose. Who out there would not want to come to work everyday and know what they are doing or have a choice in runs, what they are driving, know that they are guaranteed 8 hours, know that seniority means something and is respected, and know that violations of the contract can lead to grievances and potential monetary payment by the company for every stupid rule management breaks in the contract?

    Some guys have posted that senior guys take days off so that junior guys can work. We do that too. They are called company convenience days. Any driver can take one if management offers one, and it goes by seniority. You take the day with no loss of vacation, sick or other PTO days used. If it is busy enough, a lower driver on the seniority list will be called in. If a driver wants to use a sick day, we just tell them the day before so they can plan ahead. There is no bull crap argument, no retaliation, no written warning letter waiting for us the next day, no punishment of being taken off your run or given a shitty tractor to drive.

    Our jobs are what we make of them. I personally would rather be better compensated, respected, and know that I have a grievance process in place should I ever need to go down that road. I also like having a business agent that I can call whenever I need to if I have questions or just want to shoot the crap. We have a very good business agent at our Local who was once a driver and he has not forgotten his roots.
     
  2. LS1GTO

    LS1GTO Former LTL driver turned package monkey...

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    This is 100% correct. Your perfect safety record won't mean jack :shit: if you get out of the truck and leave your key in the ignition, or don't beep the horn before backing up, or any other violation that may sound silly to you. Do any of these during your probation and you just pissed away a $100,000 a year job. Your perfect driving record won't help you here, and the union cannot help you as you are a probationary employee. Want to get into an argument and defend yourself? Go ahead, you'll be escorted off the property. Get too mouthy and they'll have the police there to see you off. Saw this happen this past peak as a package handler came to work drunk... Wouldn't take "go home" as an answer so they had to call the police to deal with it.
     
  3. sabresfan

    sabresfan Active Member

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    It really boils down to a lack of trust and faith in the teamsters as to why more barns aren't voting them in. Its a work and financial arrangement when being represented by any labor organization. The former teamsters I know feel their money was taken from them.
     
  4. LS1GTO

    LS1GTO Former LTL driver turned package monkey...

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    I can understand this to some degree as we all know that being a Teamster LTL driver now is not the same as it was years ago. I will be the first to tell you that we need to get it back to where it once was. This election is very important and if we make the right choices at this election, then maybe we can prove that it is worth having Teamsters representation.

    Honestly though, the biggest negative I read about not wanting Teamsters representation is this... Our pension fund. I don't hear or read about anyone not wanting seniority, not wanting work rules, not wanting our superior premium free healthcare, or any of the other positives I have mentioned... All I read about is our pension being in the toilet. Oh yeah, I do keep hearing about YRC concessions not being paid back. While this may be true, their drivers still come to work everyday and do their jobs. Everyone had YRC down and out back in 2008. Guess what people? They are still here. Probably pisses FedEx off more than anyone because they sure did their damndest to put them out. What I don't read about is ABF repaying our concessions. The company has almost paid us back our 7% give back. We never took a hit on our pension contributions. We gave up vacation time and hopefully we will get that back next contract, along with respectable wage increases. At the end of the day we aren't doing that bad but it could be better. I do respect the opinions and knowledge of our long term ABF drivers such as Canary and ABFer and I can understand where they are coming from with their dissatisfaction with the Teamsters and the changes they have dealt with over the years. I have only been a Teamster driver for a year and a half, so I am still learning the ins and outs of it all but that is also what this forum is for.
     
  5. sabresfan

    sabresfan Active Member

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    There are many positives to being a teamster as you have pointed out. YRC ruining good teamster companies for 20 plus years and the IBT turning their backs on the rank and file in freight have made it a monumental task to turn this around. I need 10-12 years in truck driving to finish raising my kids responsibly. After about 30 years it will be time to get out and find a regular dayshift job. I remember the days of holland, roadway, cf and abf owning this industry. It's sadly a race to the bottom that nothing will turn this around.
     
  6. GO40

    GO40 Banned

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    Agree wit all that you said. The person who you responded to creeps on all the union boards then runs back to the non Union boards defending them against the union supporters. I try to keep it short & sweet with him, it's hard to have a conversation with someone who knows more & did more than you will ever do....
     
  7. LS1GTO

    LS1GTO Former LTL driver turned package monkey...

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    Funny you should mention this... I have noticed this trend. But what is even funnier is what I just mentioned. You don't hear about the NMFA and the defined articles and rules in the contract. You don't hear about how seniority and bidding and work rules actually do work. All you hear about is our pension and YRC. All you read about is what the union did for YRC. Sorry, it wasn't just the union... The union members voted on it. Maybe the union could have done better to negotiate. After all, is was a spending spree to try to monopolize the industry that has put YRC where it is. Greedy management that has rewarded themselves with big bonuses year after year while the hard working drivers continue to work under concessions. This is the :shit: that is aggravating and needs to be addressed. This, I can see, would be disturbing to a potential group considering union representation. This is why this upcoming election is important. If the current union leadership can't work to correct this and restore the pride and glory that the Teamsters once had, then maybe it is time for change. Despite all of this, I still would rather be a union driver as opposed to not being one.
     
  8. Canadian Flyer

    Canadian Flyer Speedy Freightshaker #411

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    In my defense, my only word against union supporters has been that the union needs to get their house in order, something many Teamsters agree with.

    I come to the union boards to educate myself because I have never been a Teamster. I am not strictly anti-union, and have said on multiple occasions that if I were a union driver I'd happily pay my dues.

    I agree that seniority is important, as well as established work rules, and I've never denied that a contract presents those things. The job security offered by a union contract is second to none.

    All I was doing here was presenting why I don't actively seek a unionized job. It was asked earlier in the thread as to why non-union drivers stay non-union, so I decided to explain my case. I run the same run every week unless there's a holiday, in which case I can either take the week off or run a shorter run on the open board. Many drivers are open board, and some complain about it, but the complainers usually don't have seniority. And while the companies can (and sometimes do) change the rules on a whim, generally speaking they don't change major established rules without telling anyone. I've found, as a non-union driver, that having good principles go a long way towards keeping your job at any given time. I'm a linehaul driver, so my only regular contact with management is when dispatch contacts me on the satellite.

    That's just my experience. I've personally never found that I've needed union representation, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't take a union job if I had the option. That's it, that's all. And if that somehow means that I can't contribute anything to the discussion, I'll leave.

    LS1GTO, if you want to discuss the union movement and present your case to the FedEx and Con-way guys, by all means, I think your input would be welcomed. You offer a good debate. I personally keep out of the direct discussion of the union on both of those boards nowadays. It's gotten pretty toxic, at least on the FedEx board. But by all means, your input is welcome, as should be mine here.
     
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  9. wongway

    wongway -15% Pay & Broke Pension Fund

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    Really kinda SAD when the non-union Driver jobs PAYS more then union Driver jobs !!! :6788:
     
  10. LS1GTO

    LS1GTO Former LTL driver turned package monkey...

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    Canadian Flyer, I have no doubt that your input is welcome here. I think alot of the union guys, me included, don't like the misinformation that gets scattered and actually argued as fact. I am sure that the nonunion guys don't like that either. I have read the XPO/Conway and FedEx boards and I can see the same things that you see, and well as alot of the seasoned Teamsters guys can see also. I have my opinions and I have kept them to myself because I don't want to appear as though I am trying to stir the hornet's nest. I have zero problem answering anyone's questions with fact first and opinion second. If I don't know the answer then I will tell you I don't know the answer. If you search through any of the threads or my username, you will see that I have posted in the union threads but tried to be positive and not overbearing. As I have said before, if these drivers are going to make a decision as important as this, they need to do it with factual information, not misinformation.

    We do have issues as Teamsters. Canary makes very valid points when he posts his issues with what is wrong. Other veteran Teamsters also make very good points about it also. I enjoy reading what these guys are posting because as a younger guy that is still new to the Teamsters side of things, it is good learning and understanding. I'm not here to say I am a Teamster and I am better than anyone. I have always said that no matter what job you hold, you should be the best you can be and be compensated well for it.
     
  11. catchTHErabbit

    catchTHErabbit PRAISE THE LORD!and pass the ammunition PLEASE!!!!

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    bettering my future? not to come off narcissistic BUT....i work at a 20 driver terminal in central maine,im fourth from the bottom,i run to springfield ma on night linehaul for xpo. i push 90k while taking convenience days !our busy litter beaver was $55 short of 100k! i have a 30k harley another 4k in chrome,35k car for the wife,15k car for the daughter,paying for her tuition,15k fishing boat, i have plans on dumping 6k on my month long bike ride in 2017,2800 s.f home on 12 acres with a 20x40 inground pool not a neighbor in sight from my front porch,my house is one of the nicest looking houses in clinton me when all the flowers are up! you can go to google and look up bellsqueeze rd look for the house that has my lincoln towncar in the driveway on the satallite map p.s the house is brown! i cant wait for you to tell me the 6k a year i got from conway in my 401k is underwhelming! PLEASE TELL ME WHAT COULD POSSIBLE BE BETTER OUT THERE FOR ME!!!!! yes we got hosed with our vacations a few years back ,yes we went from 100% paid health care to having to pay $10-$20 a week, yes they dont match your 401k anymore, all that stock i bought at $7 and the bunch i bought with conways donations payed off for me at the buy out now didnt it! and yes i want those bennies back!so tell me again how bad i have it !!!! oh by the way when the wife's car is paid off can you say 1 ton cummings crew cab!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
  12. joes bar and grill

    joes bar and grill Well-Known Member

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    Well at least your credit is good.
     
  13. Northern Flash

    Northern Flash Piss on our Flag, get a boycott against you.

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    :1036316054:

    You nailed it.
    Years ago, being a Teamster was something to be proud of and it was considered a career. Now, because of the poor leadership at the top, it's become just another job.
     
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  14. Boilerpeddle

    Boilerpeddle Drawing found in trailer

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    Hope you got all that payed off because a shakeup in management could put you under someone who doesn't like the way you look (I'm in serious trouble there even with a union) and send you packing with no recourse.
     
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  15. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    We recently had a lockout in the W.Pa. area involving several steel mills,.....not a strike, mind you, ....but a lockout, where management refused to bargain with the representative steelworkers Union. Many non-Union LTL drivers crossed that picket line,......some under heavy verbal abuse.

    When I asked a few of these non-Union guys why they chose to side with the billionaires,......I was told :" I had no choice, They were going to fire me if I didn't cross that picket line...".......and: "My family is more important than those picketers..."

    When I told them,....without losing my temper,....that the First Amendment guaranteed them the right to express themselves under Free Speech, and Freedom of Assembly to refuse to take either side in a Labor dispute,.....and NOT cross the picket line, if they agreed with the steelworker's position....(...and how could you not agree with "Let's continue working while we discuss contract:..?)....whereas, crossing the picket line means those LTL drivers agreed with management, and to Hell with those locked-out steelworkers and THEIR families.........well,....I was told that the First Amendment did not apply in "real world" circumstances........and that if I was non-Union, I would see what that means......

    And,.....there were several non-Union LTL guys who did NOT cross the picket line,........and still have their jobs.

    There was one guy who told me: "No way would I cross a picket line....."........and several days later , I saw him do it. Of course, it seems like he's avoiding me...

    I guess, when it comes down to it,.....personal courage means quite a bit when you are employed-at-will.....

    Trucking was the first major occupation to be de-regulated. That opened up the field for cutthroat cheap competition, dissappearing Union jobs,.......and MAINLY,......a large percentage of the transportation Labor force either willing,....or willing to be coerced,....into choosing management's side in labor disputes,.............and KEEPING the goods flowing, and the profits rolling......at the expense of the work force.

    By the way,.....the lockout, after eight months,.....was settled. The non-Union guys who crossed the picket line now have to go in and deal with those guys......FACE-TO-FACE....
     
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  16. buffalobill

    buffalobill Well-Known Member

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  17. icedriver

    icedriver Well-Known Member

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    If the freight is on my trailer, I'm delivering it. That's my job. Another company's political battle with their employees does not concern me. I just don't play games.
     
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  18. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Yes, Allegheny Technologies Inc. Pretty sad and bitter, divided a lot of towns,....Broke a lot of families,.....ran some stores out of business,.......Just what the Kiski valley needed,........nothing like kicking someone when they're down,.......depressed area as it was.

    And the kicker was,.....the company came back,.........did the "Emily Lotilla" thing and said: " Never mind! We'll accept your first offer.". Eight months wasted out of people's lives........
     
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  19. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    That must've been your cousin that told me that the First Amendment does't work in the "real world"..........

    And it might have been your grandfather working the gas ovens at Auschwitz who said: " It's my job...I've got to feed my family...."

    Curious to know how you'd answer a question from one of your children if they came home from high school and asked you what a "scab" was.,........They're a little too old at that point to B. S......

    What you stand up for in life is more important than what you do........
     
  20. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    One could only wish that you could get that 'favor' returned to you in your future.
     
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