ABF | YRC Regional more than triples the profit of ABF

[nothumbleenough]

Do the math yrc pays as much into pension funds and 401k's as ABF pays into our pension funds. They pay 25% of the rate but they have 4 times as many employees. So your numbers don't add up. Just thought I would give you a little history lesson. And as far as OD and the rest of them trucking companies you are so worried about here is another history lesson for you. WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE HIGHER PAID DRIVERS FOR DECADES AGAINST THEM! So your sky is falling ideas are falling on deaf ears here. YOUR BROTHER WITH A PAIR ALWAYS!

To my brother with a pair, but not a lot of common sense. ABF total revenue for 2011 was 1.9 billion. YRC total revenue 4.87 billion in revenue. YRC's contribution to the pension is more than 200 million less a year than it used to be. No one is making that shortfall up.

Who cares that we used to be the highest paid drivers decades ago. The same statement could be made by drivers from CF, NW, Hyman, or every union company that no longer exists because of the dramatically lower cost non-union competition.

 

[Muler]

To my brother with a pair, but not a lot of common sense. ABF total revenue for 2011 was 1.9 billion. YRC total revenue 4.87 billion in revenue. YRC's contribution to the pension is more than 200 million less a year than it used to be. No one is making that shortfall up.

Who cares that we used to be the highest paid drivers decades ago. The same statement could be made by drivers from CF, NW, Hyman, or every union company that no longer exists because of the dramatically lower cost non-union competition.

Where would you suggest the wages be lowered too. Just listen to yourself. You argue that we should be paid the lowest wage in order for ABF to survive. That is silly. ABF has survived because of hard work and smart business decisions. ABF still profits because of the same hard work and smart business models. During this recent economic downturn ABF has still profited and as a matter of fact they have grown buying a moving company and then buying Panther for $180.000,000.00. And let's not forget they started Freight Value and Moving Solutions.And please let's not forget that we have one of the newest fleets of any of the large freight carriers. Yes times aren't the best but taking away out wages and benefits is not the answer. There are many ways to move ABF forward but the suffering of our families is not the cure all as you keep implying.

 

[Cab Lizzard]

Reddaway in the West is also mostly Non-Union ...
Imagine how much more these company's could make if the managers were not incompetent !

 

[nothumbleenough]

Where would you suggest the wages be lowered too. Just listen to yourself. You argue that we should be paid the lowest wage in order for ABF to survive. That is silly. ABF has survived because of hard work and smart business decisions. ABF still profits because of the same hard work and smart business models. During this recent economic downturn ABF has still profited and as a matter of fact they have grown buying a moving company and then buying Panther for $180.000,000.00. And let's not forget they started Freight Value and Moving Solutions.And please let's not forget that we have one of the newest fleets of any of the large freight carriers. Yes times aren't the best but taking away out wages and benefits is not the answer. There are many ways to move ABF forward but the suffering of our families is not the cure all as you keep implying.

Brother Muler, you made a stupid statement about YRC paying the same as ABF into the pension. They have almost 2.5 times the revenue we have but pay the same. That works out for ABF paying $7 dollars of every $100 in revenue directly to the pension. YRC pays roughly $1.75 of every $100 in revenue to the pension. Prior to the pension concession, they paid over 350 million a year into the pension. Now they pay about $125 million a year into the pension. That burden, shortfall, liability, (what ever word you want to use) falls on ABF because we are the only significant contributing member to the pension. The history lesson you speak of will repeat itself once again, just ask the ghosts of CF, NW, Hyman, or any other company no longer in existance. Neanderthals such as yourself have almost always prevailed in the short-term but never in the long-term when it comes to the inevidable consequences of a competetive marketplace, like the LTL industry today.

BTW, you cannot find any statement from me that says I support less wages. But you can find many statements from me that say we must put our own financial house in order(pension) before we lose our ability to fix it and it fails. That will be the consequence if your side prevails, and soon enough, when the pension fails, the .28 cents on the dollar the pension recipents receive will be only on your conscience, not mine.

 

[Muler]

Brother Muler, you made a stupid statement about YRC paying the same as ABF into the pension. They have almost 2.5 times the revenue we have but pay the same. That works out for ABF paying $7 dollars of every $100 in revenue directly to the pension. YRC pays roughly $1.75 of every $100 in revenue to the pension. Prior to the pension concession, they paid over 350 million a year into the pension. Now they pay about $125 million a year into the pension. That burden, shortfall, liability, (what ever word you want to use) falls on ABF because we are the only significant contributing member to the pension. The history lesson you speak of will repeat itself once again, just ask the ghosts of CF, NW, Hyman, or any other company no longer in existance. Neanderthals such as yourself have almost always prevailed in the short-term but never in the long-term when it comes to the inevidable consequences of a competetive marketplace, like the LTL industry today.

BTW, you cannot find any statement from me that says I support less wages. But you can find many statements from me that say we must put our own financial house in order(pension) before we lose our ability to fix it and it fails. That will be the consequence if your side prevails, and soon enough, when the pension fails, the .28 cents on the dollar the pension recipents receive will be only on your conscience, not mine.

You called one of my statements stupid. I have refrained from calling your statements what I really consider them. I never said yrc did not GROSS MORE REVENUE than ABF. I said they pay the same into pension funds and 401K funds as ABF does. That was not a stupid statement it was factual. Do the math they yrc pay 25% of what ABF does and they have 4 times as many workers and as for the way I was taught math that would equal the same amount in pension payments.
You keep saying ABF is the only significant contributor to the funds. That statement alone tells me that you know nothing of any real substance about the funds. Do your uninformed self a favor and send off for Form 5500 and you will see just how out of touch you are with the funds. I have such a form and I know what I am talking about and you don't. You don't want the wages touched because you have a large family. That is not my fault. I have paid into a fund for 35 years and I desereve my pension just like the thousands of other Brothers that have paid in. But you want us to give up what we have lived a life time in paying into so you can keep having kids that you want us to pay for. NO THANKS! If you have to may I suggest you get a second job to pay for your past indiscretions. We have earned our pensions and we will fight to keep them.You left yrc to cut and run and now you want the same here. No not a stupid statement just a factual one. YOUR HAVING A PAIR BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[nothumbleenough]

You called one of my statements stupid. I have refrained from calling your statements what I really consider them. I never said yrc did not GROSS MORE REVENUE than ABF. I said they pay the same into pension funds and 401K funds as ABF does. That was not a stupid statement it was factual. Do the math they yrc pay 25% of what ABF does and they have 4 times as many workers and as for the way I was taught math that would equal the same amount in pension payments.
You keep saying ABF is the only significant contributor to the funds. That statement alone tells me that you know nothing of any real substance about the funds. Do your uninformed self a favor and send off for Form 5500 and you will see just how out of touch you are with the funds. I have such a form and I know what I am talking about and you don't. You don't want the wages touched because you have a large family. That is not my fault. I have paid into a fund for 35 years and I desereve my pension just like the thousands of other Brothers that have paid in. But you want us to give up what we have lived a life time in paying into so you can keep having kids that you want us to pay for. NO THANKS! If you have to may I suggest you get a second job to pay for your past indiscretions. We have earned our pensions and we will fight to keep them.You left yrc to cut and run and now you want the same here. No not a stupid statement just a factual one. YOUR HAVING A PAIR BROTHER ALWAYS!

The stupidity of your statement goes directly how you portray everything as hunky dory. That is, a company that used to contribute over 300 million a year into the pension and now contributes half that number.

No that is not a problem for muler. Evidently because you are so damn tough and not afraid of anyone, you can overcome any problem. Except you can't. Especially when you deny the severity of the problem. This is going to blow up, (pension failing)
and your advice will be on the record for everyone to see just how wrong you were.

 

[Muler]

The stupidity of your statement goes directly how you portray everything as hunky dory. That is, a company that used to contribute over 300 million a year into the pension and now contributes half that number.

No that is not a problem for muler. Evidently because you are so damn tough and not afraid of anyone, you can overcome any problem. Except you can't. Especially when you deny the severity of the problem. This is going to blow up, (pension failing)
and your advice will be on the record for everyone to see just how wrong you were.

Calm down. You may see me as that but I am human just like everyone else. Just because I understand what is happening does not make me a bad person. You it appears are scared to death of a potential wage loss. I have never said it was all OK. You are spouting off about the funds as though you have read the facts and I just pointed out the fact that you know nothing about the facts of the funds. Because you have not sent off for the information you are entitled to. You sir come on here spreading things that you have heard as the facts on the pension funds. Not once have you alluded to one official form for our reading of the facts. Just because you are afraid does not mean the rest of us will run and bury our heads in the sand. You created a large family and now you want us to pay for them. We will not. You will do just like the rest of us have done. You will have to work as many jobs as it takes to provide for your family that is what we did when raising our families.I never ask another Teamster to give up what they had earned to help pay for my kids that my wife and I CHOSE TO HAVE! And again you are way off on what yrc once had to pay into the funds. Again you post like it was a fact 300 million doesn't even come close. But you have not posted that CSPF made money last year WHY? No you came to ABF because you thought yrc would not make it and now you are kicking yourself in the butt because you lost all that seniority to start at the bottom and they are still around. And you are only concerned about yourself again and want a better wage at the expense of the ABF Teamsters Pensions. That won't happen here we are a little different over here when it comes to those types of matters. You have a right to your beliefs and I have the right to mine. But facts are facts and you have posted NONE! And as for the pension failling. If it does it will not be because of me but for everyday it survives is another day more Brothers qualify for protected benefits and their surviving spouses will be able to live an affordable life long after we are gone. I would be proud to be mentioned in the same breath if that be the case. And you have gone on the record as running scared during these times as duly noted.YOUR BROTHER WITH A PAIR ALWAYS!

 

[teamster82]

yrc you are so full of **** just pay the full rate and up date all your tractors and trailers and pay your bills like abf dose than make your point.

 

[duke]

it would be easy to update their (yrc) tractors and pay their bills if they would not have used the employee consessions to cut the freight rates and join the race to the bottom

 

[nothumbleenough]

Calm down. You may see me as that but I am human just like everyone else. Just because I understand what is happening does not make me a bad person. You it appears are scared to death of a potential wage loss. I have never said it was all OK. You are spouting off about the funds as though you have read the facts and I just pointed out the fact that you know nothing about the facts of the funds. Because you have not sent off for the information you are entitled to. You sir come on here spreading things that you have heard as the facts on the pension funds. Not once have you alluded to one official form for our reading of the facts. Just because you are afraid does not mean the rest of us will run and bury our heads in the sand. You created a large family and now you want us to pay for them. We will not. You will do just like the rest of us have done. You will have to work as many jobs as it takes to provide for your family that is what we did when raising our families.I never ask another Teamster to give up what they had earned to help pay for my kids that my wife and I CHOSE TO HAVE! And again you are way off on what yrc once had to pay into the funds. Again you post like it was a fact 300 million doesn't even come close. But you have not posted that CSPF made money last year WHY? No you came to ABF because you thought yrc would not make it and now you are kicking yourself in the butt because you lost all that seniority to start at the bottom and they are still around. And you are only concerned about yourself again and want a better wage at the expense of the ABF Teamsters Pensions. That won't happen here we are a little different over here when it comes to those types of matters. You have a right to your beliefs and I have the right to mine. But facts are facts and you have posted NONE! And as for the pension failling. If it does it will not be because of me but for everyday it survives is another day more Brothers qualify for protected benefits and their surviving spouses will be able to live an affordable life long after we are gone. I would be proud to be mentioned in the same breath if that be the case. And you have gone on the record as running scared during these times as duly noted.YOUR BROTHER WITH A PAIR ALWAYS!

Facts are a funny thing:

1. Such as, 150,000 teamsters were paying into the pension in June of 2006. Ironically, that is when the Pension Protection Act was put into law. As of June 2012, only 65,000 teamsters were paying into the pension. That is a reduction of 85,000 teamsters paying into the pension in six years.

2. In that same time period, the number of teamsters drawing a monthly pension check has increased slightly from 211,000 to 213,000.

3. In Jan. 2008, net assets of the central states pension was $26.8 Billion. In Dec. 2011, net assets were $17.6 Billion. A reduction of $10.1 Billion in four years.

4. Since Jan. 2009 the stock market is up over 100%, yet the pension, invested primarily in the same stock market is up only 300 Million.

5. Total pension contributions in 2008 was $849,000,000. Total pension contribution in 2011 was $545,000,000. A decrease of $304,000,000.

6. Average yearly loss since 2008 by the pension is $2,000,000,000 Yes, that is Billion, not millions!

7. ABF paid $130,000,000 into the pension last year, with the average contribution per union employee averaging just short of $20,000 per employee.

8. The pension protection act requires those still contributing into the pension increase their contribution 8% annually.

9. ABF has lost $168 million in the last five years. Their stock is currently trading under $8 a share.

10. When the pension fails, full pensions will be reduced to 28% of par value.


One of us is dealing in facts, the other is making personal attacks.

 

[papajohn]

Facts are a funny thing:

1. Such as, 150,000 teamsters were paying into the pension in June of 2006. Ironically, that is when the Pension Protection Act was put into law. As of June 2012, only 65,000 teamsters were paying into the pension. That is a reduction of 85,000 teamsters paying into the pension in six years.

2. In that same time period, the number of teamsters drawing a monthly pension check has increased slightly from 211,000 to 213,000.

3. In Jan. 2008, net assets of the central states pension was $26.8 Billion. In Dec. 2011, net assets were $17.6 Billion. A reduction of $10.1 Billion in four years.

4. Since Jan. 2009 the stock market is up over 100%, yet the pension, invested primarily in the same stock market is up only 300 Million.

5. Total pension contributions in 2008 was $849,000,000. Total pension contribution in 2011 was $545,000,000. A decrease of $304,000,000.

6. Average yearly loss since 2008 by the pension is $2,000,000,000 Yes, that is Billion, not millions!

7. ABF paid $130,000,000 into the pension last year, with the average contribution per union employee averaging just short of $20,000 per employee.

8. The pension protection act requires those still contributing into the pension increase their contribution 8% annually.

9. ABF has lost $168 million in the last five years. Their stock is currently trading under $8 a share.

10. When the pension fails, full pensions will be reduced to 28% of par value.


One of us is dealing in facts, the other is making personal attacks.

Are you sure you are working at ABF, and are a active teamster member? Every time I see your post it tells me are something else, and not a union member. Again tell us why you really quit YRC? AND DON'T TELL US YOU LEFT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE IN A SLEEPER WITH ANOTHER DRIVER. TELL US THE REAL REASON!!!!!!

 

[nothumbleenough]

Are you sure you are working at ABF, and are a active teamster member? Every time I see your post it tells me are something else, and not a union member. Again tell us why you really quit YRC? AND DON'T TELL US YOU LEFT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE IN A SLEEPER WITH ANOTHER DRIVER. TELL US THE REAL REASON!!!!!!

More personal attacks. Ad Hominem. Google it!

Refute facts, not the person.

 

[papajohn]

More personal attacks. Ad Hominem. Google it!

Refute facts, not the person.

Well I see you still did not answer. You say want more wages, and better health benefits but you are wanting to give up our pensions so you can feed your family. Now you are saying we are the highest paid in the industry, what do you really want? I am not about to give up on my pension, just you can feed your family and have good benefits. I want our wages protected, keep at least what we have for health, I sure want my pension I have worked for.

 

[nothumbleenough]

Well I see you still did not answer. You say want more wages, and better health benefits but you are wanting to give up our pensions so you can feed your family. Now you are saying we are the highest paid in the industry, what do you really want? I am not about to give up on my pension, just you can feed your family and have good benefits. I want our wages protected, keep at least what we have for health, I sure want my pension I have worked for.

The pension needs fixed. If you're currently drawing a pension, it is in your best interest to fix the pension why we still have two (YRC and ABF) major companies contributing to it. Not fixing it in short order will undoubtedly end in pain for everyone. Especially those who will have their pension reduced from $3000 to $850.

Did you get the mailing indicating the central states pension was in a status of critical? Merriam-Webster says the definition of critical is: being in or approaching a state of crisis. Evidently someone at the PBGC can do math and see that for every teamster paying into the pension, 3.5 teamsters are drawing a retirement check. I guess Merriam-Webster got it right.

 

[papajohn]

The pension needs fixed. If you're currently drawing a pension, it is in your best interest to fix the pension why we still have two (YRC and ABF) major companies contributing to it. Not fixing it in short order will undoubtedly end in pain for everyone. Especially those who will have their pension reduced from $3000 to $850.

Did you get the mailing indicating the central states pension was in a status of critical? Merriam-Webster says the definition of critical is: being in or approaching a state of crisis. Evidently someone at the PBGC can do math and see that for every teamster paying into the pension, 3.5 teamsters are drawing a retirement check. I guess Merriam-Webster got it right.

The Pension does need fixed, not discounted, or given up on, There are other ways to make it work, maybe not like it is now, but we should not have to give it up now, some of us have worked to long to let them destroy it.

 

[nothumbleenough]

The Pension does need fixed, not discounted, or given up on, There are other ways to make it work, maybe not like it is now, but we should not have to give it up now, some of us have worked to long to let them destroy it.

Please explain how to make it work. Remember, the pension has increased only 300 million in assets in the same time the market of which the pension is mostly in has doubled its value. And it did it in a three year window.

 

[Muler]

Facts are a funny thing:

1. Such as, 150,000 teamsters were paying into the pension in June of 2006. Ironically, that is when the Pension Protection Act was put into law. As of June 2012, only 65,000 teamsters were paying into the pension. That is a reduction of 85,000 teamsters paying into the pension in six years.

2. In that same time period, the number of teamsters drawing a monthly pension check has increased slightly from 211,000 to 213,000.

3. In Jan. 2008, net assets of the central states pension was $26.8 Billion. In Dec. 2011, net assets were $17.6 Billion. A reduction of $10.1 Billion in four years.

4. Since Jan. 2009 the stock market is up over 100%, yet the pension, invested primarily in the same stock market is up only 300 Million.

5. Total pension contributions in 2008 was $849,000,000. Total pension contribution in 2011 was $545,000,000. A decrease of $304,000,000.

6. Average yearly loss since 2008 by the pension is $2,000,000,000 Yes, that is Billion, not millions!

7. ABF paid $130,000,000 into the pension last year, with the average contribution per union employee averaging just short of $20,000 per employee.

8. The pension protection act requires those still contributing into the pension increase their contribution 8% annually.

9. ABF has lost $168 million in the last five years. Their stock is currently trading under $8 a share.

10. When the pension fails, full pensions will be reduced to 28% of par value.


One of us is dealing in facts, the other is making personal attacks.

You just don't get it do you. First off many of your numbers are not current. And nobody said CSPF was in great shape.
So let me spell it out for you. We the ABF Teamsters are willing to listen to any proposal that ABF brings to the table that GUARANTEES OUR PENSIONS as they are defined. Unlike you that just wants to throw in the towel and beg for mercy.
I send for and receive the financials of CSPF and I look at the facts. You go by what others say and believe it to be fact. Again we are open to a proposal that protects all those ABF Teamsters that have paid into the funds and have earned their pensions.
I have been following the plan New England pension fund has put into place. And I also know that CSPF has applied for the same type plan for the CSPF. But you did not know that or else you would not still be crying the sky is falling.
You still have not figured out that we the ABF Teamsters can not let ABF out of the funds without them paying their liabilities. There are fund rules that have to be changed and only the government can change the RULES that are now in place. You just want to stop paying into the funds and that is impossible without liability cost.
So if you will quit panicking and listen you just might learn something. WE are here to protect US and ABF. You come from an environment of US AGAINST THEM! We for the most part have gone thru that process.
You need to become one of the team. Because without us there will be no you at ABF. I laugh every time I read one of your post suggesting we allow ABF to withdraw form the funds.
This was the first sign that you just post the ideas of others and then you believe them.
At the current time Judy and many other executives and plan leaders have been sitting before committees on Capital Hill searching for answers to the multi employer pension funds. But you have not heard much on the hearings and that sir should cause you grave concern. After all it is about us that they are meeting.
And Brothers like myself are just trying to be proactive on the matter at hand. But Brothers such as you are crying and waving the white flag. ABF will present us with a proposal and we will act accordingly. You don't seem to understand if I get screwed then you also will be getting screwed. You act as though all of us ABF Teamsters are your enemy.
Maybe you should stop and rethink your way of looking at us ABF TEAMSTERS! We are looking to move us and ABF and the Teamsters into a new era in the freight industry. BUT WE WILL GET THERE WITH OUR HEADS UP NOT BENT OVER! YOUR BROTHER WITH A PAIR ALWAYS!

WHAT'S BEST FOR US IS WHAT'S BEST FOR ABF!

 

[nothumbleenough]

You just don't get it do you. First off many of your numbers are not current. And nobody said CSPF was in great shape.
So let me spell it out for you. We the ABF Teamsters are willing to listen to any proposal that ABF brings to the table that GUARANTEES OUR PENSIONS as they are defined. Unlike you that just wants to throw in the towel and beg for mercy.
I send for and receive the financials of CSPF and I look at the facts. You go by what others say and believe it to be fact. Again we are open to a proposal that protects all those ABF Teamsters that have paid into the funds and have earned their pensions.
I have been following the plan New England pension fund has put into place. And I also know that CSPF has applied for the same type plan for the CSPF. But you did not know that or else you would not still be crying the sky is falling.
You still have not figured out that we the ABF Teamsters can not let ABF out of the funds without them paying their liabilities. There are fund rules that have to be changed and only the government can change the RULES that are now in place. You just want to stop paying into the funds and that is impossible without liability cost.
So if you will quit panicking and listen you just might learn something. WE are here to protect US and ABF. You come from an environment of US AGAINST THEM! We for the most part have gone thru that process.
You need to become one of the team. Because without us there will be no you at ABF. I laugh every time I read one of your post suggesting we allow ABF to withdraw form the funds.
This was the first sign that you just post the ideas of others and then you believe them.
At the current time Judy and many other executives and plan leaders have been sitting before committees on Capital Hill searching for answers to the multi employer pension funds. But you have not heard much on the hearings and that sir should cause you grave concern. After all it is about us that they are meeting.
And Brothers like myself are just trying to be proactive on the matter at hand. But Brothers such as you are crying and waving the white flag. ABF will present us with a proposal and we will act accordingly. You don't seem to understand if I get screwed then you also will be getting screwed. You act as though all of us ABF Teamsters are your enemy.
Maybe you should stop and rethink your way of looking at us ABF TEAMSTERS! We are looking to move us and ABF and the Teamsters into a new era in the freight industry. BUT WE WILL GET THERE WITH OUR HEADS UP NOT BENT OVER! YOUR BROTHER WITH A PAIR ALWAYS!

WHAT'S BEST FOR US IS WHAT'S BEST FOR ABF!

First, my numbers are right. Since you have a pair, go ahead and question one you think is not right. I will show you were your wrong.

Secondly, I understand Judy has meet with a Congressman from Tennessee with whom is sympathetic to the plight of ABF having to cover pension costs for employees who never worked a day at their company. I also understand he is a Republican, the House is controlled by Republicans so therefore any solutions will simply allow for unfunded exceptions to current law. That is a nice poliet way saying they will divide the pension as best they see fit. Last time I checked, the Republicans were not very sensitive to union rules like pensions. But may be you're right, we should just trust the Republican Politicians to do the right thing when it comes to our brother teamsters living on a fixed income.

 

[Muler]

First, my numbers are right. Since you have a pair, go ahead and question one you think is not right. I will show you were your wrong.

Secondly, I understand Judy has meet with a Congressman from Tennessee with whom is sympathetic to the plight of ABF having to cover pension costs for employees who never worked a day at their company. I also understand he is a Republican, the House is controlled by Republicans so therefore any solutions will simply allow for unfunded exceptions to current law. That is a nice poliet way saying they will divide the pension as best they see fit. Last time I checked, the Republicans were not very sensitive to union rules like pensions. But may be you're right, we should just trust the Republican Politicians to do the right thing when it comes to our brother teamsters living on a fixed income.

Now you post a quote form me saying I trust the Republican party or any party for the matter. You can't and now I see how you are not a very truthful person. You try to manipulate and those that read this thread can now see you for what you really are. Thanks for your arrogance. Everybody that knows me will attest that I am not now nor have I ever been a political person. And as for the pension fund and the politicians who do you think made the laws that now govern the funds? YOUR BROTHER WITH A PAIR ALWAYS!

 

[Muler]

For your viewing pleasure. Notice the fifty years to pay off their liabilities.

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