401K or Pension in next contract?

[TurnCoat]

Muler, What did the company offer in the previous proposal? Can you dig up a link to it? I understand after the deep recession the company has reconsidered how low their cash reserves would have become after making a buyout deal with Central States. Perhaps, the rejection by the members saved the company? But, I doubt ABF can save the pension fund in the long term.

Link to previous post that kinda got off topic, but an interesting discussion.
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Rumor Has It

[Docker]

Muler, What did the company offer in the previous proposal? Can you dig up a link to it? I understand after the deep recession the company has reconsidered how low their cash reserves would have become after making a buyout deal with Central States. Perhaps, the rejection by the members saved the company? But, I doubt ABF can save the pension fund in the long term.

Link to previous post that kinda got off topic, but an interesting discussion.
.

Rumor Has It

There was never actually a legal proposal to speak of...there was just that letter that Bob Davidson circulated in June 2007 to all Teamster employees saying that members should dump their Teamster pensions for a company 401(k).

[Muler]

Muler, What did the company offer in the previous proposal? Can you dig up a link to it? I understand after the deep recession the company has reconsidered how low their cash reserves would have become after making a buyout deal with Central States. Perhaps, the rejection by the members saved the company? But, I doubt ABF can save the pension fund in the long term.

Link to previous post that kinda got off topic, but an interesting discussion.
.

Rumor Has It

The proposal was behind the glass. It was never sent to the ABF Teamsters. The IBT came out with a posting at all ABF locations stating that the letter must come down. Then they threatened a Labor Board charge for ABF trying to deal directly with the bargaining unit. YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS!

[u4M2w8a]

last contract all abf ever said on their quarterly conference calls was a hybrid 401k, and the savings from the pension plan to a 401k would make the bank note on the withdraw money. Last conference call about a month ago the last question was were they planning to buy out of the pension fund in this contract? Judys answer was no they were waiting on some things to happen in congress and other things that are in the works. I believe their waiting for a answer back from the PBGC on central states request for a " Direct Attribution Plan"

[TurnCoat]

I remember reading that they contemplated the idea when UPS bought out, but later realized it would have probably been a mistake. The industry has definitely made a lot of changes in the recent 5 years. In a buyout, those near retirement, or even those that are vested in the fund with 5 or more years, would still get a defined benefit at age 62 from the fund? What I mean is if I quit right now, and not another dime is paid on me I would draw about $2600/mo., but we all know that could change with one letter from the fund. When ABF agrees to put $X into the fund to buy out, we would be locked at a certain rate, in my case say around $2000/mo., I know I would take a haircut on my pension. Then ABF would invest a lump sum, say around $2500 per year of service, I have paid into the fund, into my 401k as a starter savings, so I start out with about $62,000 that they match dollar for dollar up to 6% of my income as long as they show a profit. They do want to show a profit to the shareholders by the way. In this scenario, I draw a defined benefit from the fund, guaranteed by the government in the buyout, and have a nice lump of savings that belongs to me, that I can leave to my kids or grandkids if I don't spend it all. How much I spend will depend on how they behave! If my wife outlives me, she would get a reduced pre-determined pension payment, and she would have the 401k money? I think the IBT, CSPF, ABF, and importantly the ABF membership, all have an obligation to find some realistic solution to this problem. I hope it at least comes to the bargaining table. Ya'll be safe

[Docker]

I remember reading that they contemplated the idea when UPS bought out, but later realized it would have probably been a mistake. The industry has definitely made a lot of changes in the recent 5 years. In a buyout, those near retirement, or even those that are vested in the fund with 5 or more years, would still get a defined benefit at age 62 from the fund? What I mean is if I quit right now, and not another dime is paid on me I would draw about $2600/mo., but we all know that could change with one letter from the fund. When ABF agrees to put $X into the fund to buy out, we would be locked at a certain rate, in my case say around $2000/mo., I know I would take a haircut on my pension. Then ABF would invest a lump sum, say around $2500 per year of service, I have paid into the fund, into my 401k as a starter savings, so I start out with about $62,000 that they match dollar for dollar up to 6% of my income as long as they show a profit. They do want to show a profit to the shareholders by the way. In this scenario, I draw a defined benefit from the fund, guaranteed by the government in the buyout, and have a nice lump of savings that belongs to me, that I can leave to my kids or grandkids if I don't spend it all. How much I spend will depend on how they behave! If my wife outlives me, she would get a reduced pre-determined pension payment, and she would have the 401k money? I think the IBT, CSPF, ABF, and importantly the ABF membership, all have an obligation to find some realistic solution to this problem. I hope it at least comes to the bargaining table. Ya'll be safe

What is the company's 401k proposal? I would love to hear it since you seem to know all about the details of something that hasn't even been proposed yet.

[Muler]

I remember reading that they contemplated the idea when UPS bought out, but later realized it would have probably been a mistake. The industry has definitely made a lot of changes in the recent 5 years. In a buyout, those near retirement, or even those that are vested in the fund with 5 or more years, would still get a defined benefit at age 62 from the fund? What I mean is if I quit right now, and not another dime is paid on me I would draw about $2600/mo., but we all know that could change with one letter from the fund. When ABF agrees to put $X into the fund to buy out, we would be locked at a certain rate, in my case say around $2000/mo., I know I would take a haircut on my pension. Then ABF would invest a lump sum, say around $2500 per year of service, I have paid into the fund, into my 401k as a starter savings, so I start out with about $62,000 that they match dollar for dollar up to 6% of my income as long as they show a profit. They do want to show a profit to the shareholders by the way. In this scenario, I draw a defined benefit from the fund, guaranteed by the government in the buyout, and have a nice lump of savings that belongs to me, that I can leave to my kids or grandkids if I don't spend it all. How much I spend will depend on how they behave! If my wife outlives me, she would get a reduced pre-determined pension payment, and she would have the 401k money? I think the IBT, CSPF, ABF, and importantly the ABF membership, all have an obligation to find some realistic solution to this problem. I hope it at least comes to the bargaining table. Ya'll be safe

You just said something interesting. ABF realized it would have been a mistake to have paid out of CSPF. So now we know they are capable of making mistakes.
You keep kicking around a 6% 401k match. When did ABF tell you this is what they would like to propose?
Where did they make this proposal.
Now if you look at what has happened since ABF ask us to leave CSPF. They would have taken a roughly $1,000,000,000,.00 loan and we all know where that would have gotten us during the GREATEST RECESSION SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION!
WE WOULD TODAY BE IN AS BAD IF NOT WORSE CONDITION THAN yrc!
That's right ABF for the most part would at the very least be crippled. We the ABF Teamsters saved ABF from themselves.
And we will do it again when the opportunity comes up again. Here in Cleveland every company that controlled the pension plans of the workers left them high and dry when push came to shove. If we choose to leave CSPF we will then fall under different pension rules that apply to single employer plans. No we don't jump at things fast here at ABF. You talk of things that don't exist as of this time.

WE SAVED ABF BEFORE AND WE WILL DO IT AGAIN!

YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS!

[TurnCoat]

last contract all abf ever said on their quarterly conference calls was a hybrid 401k, and the savings from the pension plan to a 401k would make the bank note on the withdraw money. Last conference call about a month ago the last question was were they planning to buy out of the pension fund in this contract? Judys answer was no they were waiting on some things to happen in congress and other things that are in the works. I believe their waiting for a answer back from the PBGC on central states request for a " Direct Attribution Plan"

Thanks for the insight! Sounds like they are waiting for some things to flesh out...Gonna take an "act of Congress" to get this thing fixed! Wow, that really makes me feel better

[Docker]

last contract all abf ever said on their quarterly conference calls was a hybrid 401k, and the savings from the pension plan to a 401k would make the bank note on the withdraw money. Last conference call about a month ago the last question was were they planning to buy out of the pension fund in this contract? Judys answer was no they were waiting on some things to happen in congress and other things that are in the works. I believe their waiting for a answer back from the PBGC on central states request for a " Direct Attribution Plan"

The changes began last summer when a New England Teamsters plan started this process that involved the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. (PBGC), the government agency that insures most pensions. The New England Teamsters plan agreed with PBGC to permit contributing trucking company employers to withdraw from the plan and re-enter the multi-employer pension plan under what is known as a “Direct Attribution Plan.”

Such a plan offers three benefits, Aitken said:
1-Current withdrawal liability is greatly reduced;
2-Employers are not liability for liability attributable to other employers; and
3-the New England plan agreed to reduce benefit accruals to the employers’ contribution level to fully fund the plan, with projections updated annually.

New approach to Teamsters trucking companies

[TurnCoat]

I was just sharing some basic scenarios. I know many companies have matched their employees dollar for dollar up to 6% of their gross income. You can save as much as you want, but the company matches you up to 6%. This is before tax savings. You will pay regular taxes as you take distributions after retirement. You will also pay taxes on your pension income, same difference there. All the years paid into the fund on us should pay us a defined pension, although it will have to be adjusted to keep the plan solvent. The company would need to offer me something to jumpstart the 401K since I am nearing retirement. I am sorry junior employees, with less than 5 years vested in the CSPF may have to start from scratch, but they would control their retirement account completely, and would never have to open a sad letter from CSPF. Just an idea how it could work.