The Gap Between The Rich and Poor

[ldgarrit]

First of all, I'm not smart enough to give you guys precise details on the exact type of system in a society I would like to see. For that matter, no person on Earth is smart enough to do that(except for Stoney whos to smart to even repeat it). But the broad principles are clear. And IMO, the only way to change society in any meaningful way is to experiment with various changes and see if they work. If they work well, take it a bit further, see hpw that works, etc. In that sense I'm actually fairly conservative in how I think change should come about.

The capitalist model I assume you're talking about is only one aspect of the business world, probably a small aspect. Nobody "created" or invented the restaurant down the road, or the clothing factory, or the retail store, or the supermarket, trucking; at least nobody who is currently working at these places. So full democratic control of these places would be my prescription. The decisions are made democratically by the people who are actually working in the place on a daily basis, rather than being made by some corporate hack hundreds of miles away and then ordered downward in a totalitarian way. But I mean if an entire society were based on democratic principles, in the workplace and in the government, the idea would hopefully become so ingrained that the very idea of exerting illegitimate authority or power over other people would be viewed as simply unacceptable. So sure, you can start a business, whatever, but if you intend to run it in a totalitarian way, you won't find anyone to volunteer for that. Why would they, when other places are being run in a seriously democratic fashion?

Businesses aren't democracys because not everyone involved with the business has a financial interest in it. Why don't you allow Stoney and I to come into your house and we'll all get together and form a consensus regarding how we're going to run your household? The problem with your model, is that it fails to respect the right of people to own private property. I would be one of the people who would not volunteer to work in a business that's ran like a democracy, because it would end up failing to a business that was ran like a business, from the top down. You seem to have it all backwards, it's like you would like to see a top-down style government, but you want businesses to be ran in a bottom-up fashion.

[Stoney]

Bubba, Surely you don't believe that everyone who got caught up in the economic crisis of the past four years, where all over extended because they bought to much house. I for didnt but it just so happens that the co. I worked for did. I bought an 80k house back in '01' and got laid off 2mos. after closing due to the sept. 11 attacks. spent almost 9mos. working three jobs just to try and keep roof over my family's head. I did get into a subprime mortgage. I bought the house on a fixed morgage and had very reasonable payments. after came back to work had a pretty good run for about 6 yrs. that was enought time to get my financial situation corrected as much as possible. But we still took a hugh hit on our credit rating. I was just starting to get my credit score back into shape when the housing bubble burst. once again laid off. This time how every there wasn't anywhere to go. I got hired and laid off twice by two different companies before I ever went to work and turned a wheel. for them. Then finally got put on the road as a team driver only to turn about 3k miles a weel and kept out for a month at time. this calculated into nnot making enough money to live on and paybills. made another move as soon as we gcould to another company, same story as before. moved again and came off the rd. still sarved to death but at least I was home every night. My po9int is this same thing has happened to millions of people. the employment figures that we all here about in the news are touted as showing improvement, but what they aren't telling us is, how many of those who are gamefully employed are actually severely under employed. I would be willing to bet millions. This is why we haven't seen an up swing in the housing market and the manufacturing indexes remain low. People were told that sub prime loans where a great way to get into a home. Which if things had worked out would have been true. But when large Corporate intities started hedging on that debt they where drooling all over themselves. It was going to be a win win for them. But oops! what happened. POP!! Millions lost their homes millions lost their jobs(some forever) and millions more lost what was left of their retirements. All because Wall Street got greedy. Tell me something, Why is it that any time a Shiek in Saudi Arabia farts in the wrong direction, does the price of crude oil go up which results in an almost instantanious increase in fuel prices at the pump, But when the price of crude oil goes down the price of fuel at the pump doesn't drop right away? Three words, MANUFACTURED PRICE INFLATION!! There are people in the top 1% of the world population that are running the world from behind closed doors simply by manipulating the economic systems of the world. It's their world and we're just along for the ride!

I repeated it several times. I refuse to go round and round with Rusty.

Now, you said you got a sub-prime mortgage. What kind and why?

And I love how you put all the blame on Wall Street. As if our government holds no responsibility in the housing crisis.
Sub-prime loans would have never existed if not for our government coming up with idea to force banks to give those loans.
You really believe a bank would loan 500k to a man making 50k?
Sure banks had no problem giving out sub-prime loans when the federal government was backing all sub-prime loans. It was a win win for the banks. While the loans were being paid, the banks were making a killing from the high interest loans. If the was defaulted on, the banks loss was covered by our government with Fannie and Freddie.

And as far as your idea about a democracy running a business. I work with some great guys. But I wouldn't trust half of them to balance my checkbook, much less make decisions in the company I work for.


Conservative to the Bone.
R.I.P. Ron Paul 2012. Hahaha!!!