To Be or Not To Be

[Traveler]

I would have to say that the only check against corprate greed in this Country is the labor unions. That is the only defense we have anymore. I have experienced this first hand my Father worked as a Corp. exec for a large american co. for 20 years but when he got close to retirement their thank you to him for all his hard work in bring the co. from #8 in their market to #3 in their market and making the shareholderes lots of money was a pink slip, a severence package, and some lame excuse about how they needed a younger man in his position tho take the co. into the future. He was 55 when that happened. He luckily found a job about 6 mos. later for less pay of course, and had just been demoted again for the same reason at the age of 63. He is wondering if he is going to be able to retire when he had planned at 65. I on the other had feel I have a better chance at being able to retire when I want than he does because of my union. They cannot just tell me they need a younger man in my position. Unions keep the playing field as level as possible for the Co. and the employees. That is how I think they benefit the people. Of Course there are many more reasons, Most of which have already been stated. But I thought you might like to see a little different side of the same argument. Also it has resently been stated that the currently the average salary and benefits for corporate executives of the largest co. in the country are running about 114 times higher than that of the rank and file employees of the same co. What is that they do that makes them so much better than us? I mean after all what's the big deal if they fail the golden parachute of multimillion dollar severance packages will catch them right. These people are just ordinary men and women like us. They have a job to do just like we do. But what happens when we don't perform up to co. standards? you're out, see ya!! don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya ,on the way out. They stand on the shoulders of the people underneath them everyday in order to make things happen and then see no problem with cutting those same people off at the knees for a dollar. Unions may not be able to stop this entirely but they give the average person recourse to deal with these actions.

[Toxic]

Originally Posted by Jeff

This is the debate forum and arguments are welcome

I agree with you Jeff and that is what I did. I argued that his post has no content of relevance and of any importance. And all it was meant to do was to cause more arguments between the union and non-union members of the board. His first question was......

Question 1

Originally Posted by fr8rookie

My biggest question is can someone that holds a card tell me what good has the union done for the public in this country.

The Union has no issues with the public. Ther goal is to help me and other members. The public is not on there agenda list at all.

Question 2

Originally Posted by fr8rookie

Also how does it feel that not only are the people that you work are getting rich the union for which you pay dues are getting rich and playing golf with the owners of your company?

They are not getting rich off of my dues. They deserve a salary just like you and I do. Why did fr8rookie ask me "how does it feel that he thinks the union is getting rich off of my dues"? That is like look at you stupid!! I am not a member and you are and they are stealing you blind and getting rich.

And I know of no officer or agent in my local that has played golf with the owners of Roadway...

There were only them 2 questions the the rest was just BS... Nothing of any relevance at all. This is my adult argument against his origonal post

[Toxic]

Originally Posted by Docksteward

Hey fr8rookie.........if you are anti union then why do you care what the unions have done for the workers?? You benifit every day from what unions have done for workers. They are why there is a middle class in America. Unions created the 40 hour work week and paid vacation. And you get the benifits. I doubt your reason for starting this thread as "solid answer for my questions"......why should you care, whatever responses you get here you either don't believe or have ridicule for them. DS.

I agree with you DS!!! Like I said in my 2 posts in this thread.


also fr8rookie started out his thread by ridiculeing us by asking how does it feel to get stolen from by our union and also while the union was playing golf with my company.... What BS!!!

[BusterNite]

Originally Posted by Dirtball

fr8rookie Let me ask you to please explain the failures of pensions of non union companys and why the courts are so eager to please big business when they cry for reliefe of their pension plans. I am now a retired teamster of 30 years and I walked away with about 1/4 million dollars that I couldn't save on my own.(and the reason I couldn't save that kind of money is because I haven't got the will power to do it)(my fault,nobody elses) Good luck if you have that kind of saving power.Like was said earlier the Union has done a lot as far as getting laws changed that benefited us.Are they perfect.No Way and I don't believe you will find anyone who will say they are but they do help..And by the way just because a teamster gets a pay raise doesn't mean everything in the country gos up in price. What about other people getting raises? Do they cause the price index of everything to also rise or is it just the teamster raises...?

Even the government new americans could not save money for their retirement. That was the whole Idea behind social security. Then we found out that the govenrment could not save retirement money for us. So they passed it on to the company's. We found out that they could save us retirement money. But they found out that they could spend it for us.

[Toxic]

Originally Posted by fr8rookie

Mr Spicoli thats why I ask the questions I am anti- union as you call it but please tell me If i hadn't ask the question on this forum would you have ever expressed it in that way. Most of the arguement is about people taking cheap shots at one another. I am not looking to sling mud but to get a solid answer for my questions. And try to answer anyone elses here. I have good friends that are Union members most are IBEW members. There needs to be more answers like your on this forum

Your first post started off with just what you say you don't want. Taking cheap shots and slinging mud. See your quote below. What kind of "solid answer" do you think you will get with that?

Originally Posted by fr8rookie

Also how does it feel that not only are the people that you work are getting rich the union for which you pay dues are getting rich and playing golf with the owners of your company?

I read you first post several times and in the whole paragraph there is only 2 questions. All the rest is just talk. You have no legitimate questions for union members as far as I am concerned. You just wanted to do what you now say you don't want going on.

Originally Posted by fr8rookie

Most of the arguement is about people taking cheap shots at one another. I am not looking to sling mud but to get a solid answer for my questions.

[fr8rookie]

Well for the most part I got what I thought I would get. Ok I well say I added a few barbs in my questions. The history of Unions is well known, just like the Industial Revolution. Both of them brought the US to become a leader in Industry. However, the history lesson was not what I needed or wanted. Just as some dismissed my comments with words like ridicule, if your not with us your anti-union,and the union has no issues with the public,the goal is to helpme and the others. the public is not on the agenda list at all. That tells me that they are living and basking in the spotlight of yesterdays,unfortunately the present day problems are more difficult to deal with.
Today is not about growing Industry its about tring to keep it. Industry trends have evolved the influx of forgein investers buying American Corps. The struggle of the Big Three to continue. American Corps closings plants here and opening up in other countries. The Airlines are barely making it.The Textile Industry is gone. About the only thing that is growing is Imports of things we use to make ourselves. There is something wrong when you read designed in the USA built and Imported from China. This has to do with the PUBLIC, this is about all of us.The middle class as strong as it may be is losing in the future. The past is history the future is where we are goin. You can close the gap between Management and Operations and feel your being heard but in the end Management will do as they please one way or the other. Okay don't believe it but where are the jobs and I mean good paying jobs goin, to those new plants in China and Mexico to name a few. The list goes on but I hope I made a point.

The Unions helped form this country to be what it is today but it also needs to change and adapt to see the future. I know that will set someone off but Its the truth. I am not anti-union I am a Independant doing what i believe just as your doin at what you believe. Organized Labor must take a pro-active view today just like they did yesterday. I don't know if I would ever be a card carrier but how do you expect to expand without looking forward.

OK let me have it again.