Should Unions get Credit for High Driver Wages?

[johnc1go]

We all agree that organized labor accounts for 7.4% of the workforce. I've never made the claim that labor unions, particularly the Teamsters brought down their respective industries. I have said that when times get tough, unions should not try to negotiate for better wages and benefits until such time as their company can afford to pay them.

A union member in another thread, claims that unions are what keep wages high for non-unions. He claims that unless companies are afraid of their workforce, they won't pay fair wages. Now I could expand a whole bunch on that statement, but for now will stick to the subject at hand, as I'm looking for an honest debate on substance w/out us flaming each other.

I would argue that since unions aren't a large enough portion of the workforce to cause their companies to go bankrupt, then they can't be a large enough portion of the workforce to have any effect on the wages of their non-union counterparts.

I think you guys who subscribe to the notion that unions are the driving force behind wages and benefits at non-union shops are fooling yourselves. Yes, it's easy to make the correlation between the two because of the recent wage cuts across the trucking industry. One could say that because YRC cut wages and benefits, the other companies followed or will follow. I say not so much. I know from reading the Conway forum that they had a big layoff and wage cut back in December of 2008. It seems they were ahead of the curve on this layoff and wage cut thing and now, they are bouncing back. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't know the date when YRC had their first wage cuts and lay-offs. Anyway, to make my point.

The labor market, like any other market, is affected by the laws of supply and demand. Since late last year there has been a larger supply of workers than jobs for them to fill, causing layoffs. The wage cuts have come about as a result of a price war brought on by shippers producing less freight. Everyone's margins are shrinking right now as trucking companies compete for a larger slice of the pie. I know I must sound condescending to some of you old-timers who understand the cyclical nature of the trucking biz, and for that, I'm sorry, but it seems there are some who need to be educated to the effects the economy has on the trucking business.

We are a group of highly specialized workers, not everyone can drive a big truck for one reason or another. It's been my experience that under ordinary economic times the demand for drivers has always exceeded the amount of freight that had to be moved, having the effect of keeping wages high so as to make truck driving an attractive profession.

As a side note, I think that our wages could fall if illegal aliens could somehow enter into our profession. I guess this is one instance where the govt got it right by regulating our industry, licensing, and endorsement procedures as tightly as it does. We've seen over the years a dramatic decline in wages in other parts of the economy because of the cheap labor the illegals are willing to provide.

[Starkravinloon]

We were not having this discussion 5 years ago.You mentioned YRC's problems.YRC,I will agree with the union guys,their problems, are no their fault. YRC agreed to the contract. They,YRC, should have seen the mismanagement problems coming. It's been going on since they dumped Saia.YRC waited till the bleeding could not be stopped by just a band-aid.You have mismanagement in the corporate world.Some caused by blatant disregard and some on so-called educated guesses.I do feel for these workers.I know they don't want my non-union sympathy,but there is a reason I do.I have family that work there.And it's worth something to them that I feel that way.So that's good enough for me.

[NiKDiesel]

Should Unions get Credit for High Driver Wages?

Absolutely!

The < Bar is Set > Through the Negotiations of Unionized Carriers...

[brigpilgrim]

...................

A union member in another thread, claims that unions are what keep wages high for non-unions. He claims that unless companies are afraid of their workforce, they won't pay fair wages. .........................

I think you guys who subscribe to the notion that unions are the driving force behind wages and benefits at non-union shops are fooling yourselves. ..........................................

Non-Union companies are under pressure to keep the Union out of their operations because they are easier to manage. They can change operations and work around employees anytime they want with out any repercussions. You could argue that this makes them more efficient but it also makes the employee irrelevant, he has no rights. This pressure is leverage on the Company to keep wages and benefits up to keep the Union from knocking on the door. Even though the Union workforce is small, it is the boogeyman in the woods to a lot of companies.

The supply and demand argument for the cost of drivers wages shows the power of Unions on wages. There are plenty of drivers being turned out by "Fred's School of Diesel Driving and Appliance Repair" who are frustrated with the OTR companies that they work for. They would take an LTL job at $20/hour in a heartbeat. Without a Union influence for the workers the companies could force turnover to keep everyone working cheap and scared. Even though driving is a specialized skill, it doesn't take a masters degree.

[BusterNite]

We all agree that organized labor accounts for 7.4% of the workforce. I've never made the claim that labor unions, particularly the Teamsters brought down their respective industries. I have said that when times get tough, unions should not try to negotiate for better wages and benefits until such time as their company can afford to pay them.

A union member in another thread, claims that unions are what keep wages high for non-unions. He claims that unless companies are afraid of their workforce, they won't pay fair wages. Now I could expand a whole bunch on that statement, but for now will stick to the subject at hand, as I'm looking for an honest debate on substance w/out us flaming each other.

I would argue that since unions aren't a large enough portion of the workforce to cause their companies to go bankrupt, then they can't be a large enough portion of the workforce to have any effect on the wages of their non-union counterparts.

I think you guys who subscribe to the notion that unions are the driving force behind wages and benefits at non-union shops are fooling yourselves. Yes, it's easy to make the correlation between the two because of the recent wage cuts across the trucking industry. One could say that because YRC cut wages and benefits, the other companies followed or will follow. I say not so much. I know from reading the Conway forum that they had a big layoff and wage cut back in December of 2008. It seems they were ahead of the curve on this layoff and wage cut thing and now, they are bouncing back. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't know the date when YRC had their first wage cuts and lay-offs. Anyway, to make my point.

The labor market, like any other market, is affected by the laws of supply and demand. Since late last year there has been a larger supply of workers than jobs for them to fill, causing layoffs. The wage cuts have come about as a result of a price war brought on by shippers producing less freight. Everyone's margins are shrinking right now as trucking companies compete for a larger slice of the pie. I know I must sound condescending to some of you old-timers who understand the cyclical nature of the trucking biz, and for that, I'm sorry, but it seems there are some who need to be educated to the effects the economy has on the trucking business.

We are a group of highly specialized workers, not everyone can drive a big truck for one reason or another. It's been my experience that under ordinary economic times the demand for drivers has always exceeded the amount of freight that had to be moved, having the effect of keeping wages high so as to make truck driving an attractive profession.

As a side note, I think that our wages could fall if illegal aliens could somehow enter into our profession. I guess this is one instance where the govt got it right by regulating our industry, licensing, and endorsement procedures as tightly as it does. We've seen over the years a dramatic decline in wages in other parts of the economy because of the cheap labor the illegals are willing to provide.

I can only speak of my experience, Yes our wages and benefits with my 28 years at Overnite were a direct result of union wages. Every time it got hot with union talk/activity the pay scale went up and there was a lot of activity and this went on for my whole career with Overnite.

[222lifer]

Here is another wonderful thread I missed while away on vacation.

Should Unions get Credit for High Driver Wages?

No johnc1go.

Employees that are simply a pleasure to be around should be given the credit for this. Forget all about the men and women who fought for everything we have today. Their sacrifice meant nothing in the scheme of things.