some day people may wake up, then again maybe not, after all, its free.

Toby: Personally I dont like either bills, and as a former employer I had a hell of a time dealing with insurance companies, mostly the heath insurance industry, getting coverage for my employees and even myself, as I have genetically high cholesterol and triglyceride levels that I had to pay extra premiums for, even though we don't have heart attacks and strokes in my family history.

Reforms have to made of some sort of in a few years many people will not no able to afford it at all, just like many cannot now.

I understand your concerns about the control aspect of this, but I guess I dont see it as clearly as I live in a highly controlled state (Kookafornia) already where so many things that are legal is most states are not here and we have the cops busting everyone to prove it daily.

I wish this was all a bad dream and "Marcus Welby MD " was still alive but that's just not how it is in this day and age. Medical care without insurance can wipe out a families savings in a few weeks or even days now.

We need to make changes and we cant wait forever to do it either.

The truth is, I just cannot support a bill that is UNDER 1000 pages.

LOL!!! Yeah, me niether, Bubba.

Ranger - I agree reform does need to take place, I have never said that it does not through out this debate now and in the past!

As you might remember we both hit on these points in the past both publicly and in PMs.

I do not believe that the extreme that the Dems are proposing is truly in this nations interest for a plethora of reasons, that being said I am not a drone of the GOP either I am an Independent Conservative first and foremost and I see the difference between the two proposals and if chosen I would chose the GOPs for the fact that it would still allow the high quality of Health Care that we enjoy now to continue and would still leave our freedoms and anonymity from the government to remain.. It is about control and the take over of 1/6th of our economy along with the fact that the 1.4 Trillion and counting price tag will not do as promised to cover all citizens..

Let alone the ACTUAL fact that government run health care really does not work anywhere that it is in place to the quality and availability that we enjoy here.

As a employer I do understand your concerns, I have not been navigating the wheel all my life either...

So in essance I am not a big fan of either myself but in its current form I would chose the GOP version long before The Dems version hands down.

Toby: Yes I remember now. I hope the GOP bill does contain legislation that would allow small companies like mine was ,to have the benefits the big guys do (companies with 50 employees or more) as this eliminates the rescission and pre-existing conditions that most insurance companies hammer us with. I haven't read it yet but I will this weekend.

I can understand them being on top of people who lead unhealthy lifestyles like smoking, drinking to excess and the like, but in my case nothing lowers my cholesterol levels more then ten points, not even a no fat, no meat diet , veggie-only diet. Even the drugs don't lower it much and they have side effects. Its genetic and there is nothing I can do about it that I haven't tried already.

The insurance companies use a playbook that says we should all have such and such levels of this or else we are doing something wrong, which is total nonsense. We are all individuals, not cookie-cutter people that can or have to meet their extreme criteria.

Just look at how they are treating drivers with a BMI over 39 now. That's our future.