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Saving America's Pension Plans Is A Rare Chance For Bipartisan Accomplishment | Opinion

canaryinthemine said:
I guess, if we're going to point fingers,.......The 113th Congress has to accept a good bit of it...
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Congress and Obama SC nominees have nothing to do with the reduction of benefits process. The first step is the Treasury Department's approval of the application. If Obama's Treasury SEC had approved the application, then it would have proceeded to a vote of eligible plan participants, which decide by majority vote, whether to accept the reduction plan or vote it down. It never got to a vote because Obama's Treasury Sec shot down the application.
This website shows some of the applications for benefit reductions. https://www.treasury.gov/services/Pages/Benefit-Suspensions.aspx
 
canaryinthemine said:
The Treasury Department ruling on Central States Pension Fund application for relief under Kline-Miller Multi-employer Pension reform Act of 2014,...........
....was released on 5/7/2016.

The Kline-Miller Act was part of the Omnibus bill passed in December of 2014,....under threat of a Government shutdown by the Republican-controlled House and Senate.

Mr. Obama couldn't even get his Supreme Court nominee in front of the Senate....for eight months starting March of 2016,.....because of deliberate stonewalling by Mess'rs. McConnell and Ryan.

CSPF had made application to the Treasury department within 9 months of passage of Kline-Miller. They were the first MEPF to do so. It kind of stunned Labor activists to see how fast the Trustees jumped on the Pension Reform Bill relief provisions.

I guess, if we're going to point fingers,.......The 113th Congress has to accept a good bit of it...
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As usual, you put politics before reality. The Treasury had specific guidelines for acceptance. The plan didn't meet the requirements of
A: saving the plan for 20 years
B: being equtable.
Treasury had no choice, if following the law.

Your errant political lectures cost you credibility.
 
Well......the Treasury Department accepted the Western Pennsylvania Teamsters Pension Fund application,..it meeting all the criteria, in their eyes.....

The vote was:
Roughly 9,000 against
Roughly 2,000 for
......and, Roughly....11,000 “non-voting”......which , according to the....peculiar.....rules of the Treasury Department,....were counted as “yes” votes....
You can go on line for the exact figures......

Many of us, though.....had questioned the vote.....It appears that, as the totals came in,....and it appeared that the WPATeamsters might.....overwhelmingly reject....the pension cut....
...somehow, a very vocal group got...”quiet”......to the tune of...11,000 participants....not voting...

Strange......9,000 plus 2,000 is.......11,000.....which, amazingly, is the figure of guys who decided their pensions wasn’t worth voting for....

Very strange.......I went to several of the pension seminars conducted by the retiree representative......and I saw guys I hadn’t seen in decades.......Very vocal.....Very angry...

Hard to believe that,.....all of a sudden......11,000 of them just didn’t care anymore....

(.....It would be terrible to think that as the Treasury people were counting the votes,...and saw it was going to be overwhelmingly “No”........that they decided to....”lose”.....just enough ballots to make sure the application passed....)

This “vote” was decided by.....the people who didn’t vote.....Probably the first time in U.S. history that had happened...

When I contacted the Treasury Department concerning the vote totals,....I was told that I had to file a Freedom of Information Act request,.....to get any specific information....

So,......maybe you guys in CSPF dodged a...bullet.....If your application had been accepted by the Treasury Department.....
.......you might have had a.....similar outcome,....
with, maybe.......300,000 “non-votes”.....

Which would count as ......”yes”.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Well......the Treasury Department accepted the Western Pennsylvania Teamsters Pension Fund application,..it meeting all the criteria, in their eyes.....

The vote was:
Roughly 9,000 against
Roughly 2,000 for
......and, Roughly....11,000 “non-voting”......which , according to the....peculiar.....rules of the Treasury Department,....were counted as “yes” votes....
You can go on line for the exact figures......

Many of us, though.....had questioned the vote.....It appears that, as the totals came in,....and it appeared that the WPATeamsters might.....overwhelmingly reject....the pension cut....
...somehow, a very vocal group got...”quiet”......to the tune of...11,000 participants....not voting...

Strange......9,000 plus 2,000 is.......11,000.....which, amazingly, is the figure of guys who decided their pensions wasn’t worth voting for....

Very strange.......I went to several of the pension seminars conducted by the retiree representative......and I saw guys I hadn’t seen in decades.......Very vocal.....Very angry...

Hard to believe that,.....all of a sudden......11,000 of them just didn’t care anymore....

(.....It would be terrible to think that as the Treasury people were counting the votes,...and saw it was going to be overwhelmingly “No”........that they decided to....”lose”.....just enough ballots to make sure the application passed....)

This “vote” was decided by.....the people who didn’t vote.....Probably the first time in U.S. history that had happened...

When I contacted the Treasury Department concerning the vote totals,....I was told that I had to file a Freedom of Information Act request,.....to get any specific information....

So,......maybe you guys in CSPF dodged a...bullet.....If your application had been accepted by the Treasury Department.....
.......you might have had a.....similar outcome,....
with, maybe.......300,000 “non-votes”.....

Which would count as ......”yes”.
Click to expand...
In other words- yours met the requirements, and our didn't.

By the way, Treasury can override the vote, even if it was 999999-1. That's in the law.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Well......the Treasury Department accepted the Western Pennsylvania Teamsters Pension Fund application,..it meeting all the criteria, in their eyes.....

The vote was:
Roughly 9,000 against
Roughly 2,000 for
......and, Roughly....11,000 “non-voting”......which , according to the....peculiar.....rules of the Treasury Department,....were counted as “yes” votes....
You can go on line for the exact figures......

Many of us, though.....had questioned the vote.....It appears that, as the totals came in,....and it appeared that the WPATeamsters might.....overwhelmingly reject....the pension cut....
...somehow, a very vocal group got...”quiet”......to the tune of...11,000 participants....not voting...

Strange......9,000 plus 2,000 is.......11,000.....which, amazingly, is the figure of guys who decided their pensions wasn’t worth voting for....

Very strange.......I went to several of the pension seminars conducted by the retiree representative......and I saw guys I hadn’t seen in decades.......Very vocal.....Very angry...

Hard to believe that,.....all of a sudden......11,000 of them just didn’t care anymore....

(.....It would be terrible to think that as the Treasury people were counting the votes,...and saw it was going to be overwhelmingly “No”........that they decided to....”lose”.....just enough ballots to make sure the application passed....)

This “vote” was decided by.....the people who didn’t vote.....Probably the first time in U.S. history that had happened...

When I contacted the Treasury Department concerning the vote totals,....I was told that I had to file a Freedom of Information Act request,.....to get any specific information....

So,......maybe you guys in CSPF dodged a...bullet.....If your application had been accepted by the Treasury Department.....
.......you might have had a.....similar outcome,....
with, maybe.......300,000 “non-votes”.....

Which would count as ......”yes”.
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Dude you don’t trust anyone.
 
I guess,....judging from most of the responses here,....we should all just bow our heads, and accept the inevitable.....
Looks like there can be no "bipartisan" solution......

Heck,....we're all in the proverbial "same boat" on here,.....and we can't get a consensus other than..."Don't bother to fight,......"


dokman said:
Dude you don’t trust anyone.
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After the last couple of freight contracts before I retired,....I certainly don't trust a lot of institutions.......

Would you think I had a reason?

I am convinced there is a massive effort to..."sell"...defined-contribution 401(k)'s to working people,....and part of that "selling"...is a concerted effort to....ruin defined-benefit pensions.......


jimmy g said:
In other words- yours met the requirements, and our didn't.

By the way, Treasury can override the vote, even if it was 999999-1. That's in the law.
Click to expand...

And,....Absolutely,......So,..Why even bother to go through the motions of a "vote"? To give the illusion that it's a "democratic" process?....To have the ability a few years from now, when everyone forgets the "vote" totals,..to say: "Hey! You guys voted for your pension cut!"..?
11,000 "non-votes".....is a farce.......The gentleman that ran W. Pa's retiree representative position had about 7 seminars all across the tri-state area....Thousands of retirees turned out,........It was made VERY CLEAR that if you don't vote,....it counts as a "yes"....

And then we see amongst the people who "did vote"......it was overwhelmingly against the pension cut....9,000 to 2,000....

You can't tell me with a straight face,......that "11,000" people decided not to return the ballot that was sent to their house......

It was a bald-faced alteration of the outcome,....And I'm supposed to...."trust"....these mountebanks in the Treasury Department?
Especially when they had the ...legal means to just declare a pension cut.....without a vote?

You guys are right,....we should just give up and..."trust" 'em.....Resistance is Futile,...right?
 
canaryinthemine said:
I guess,....judging from most of the responses here,....we should all just bow our heads, and accept the inevitable.....
Looks like there can be no "bipartisan" solution......

Heck,....we're all in the proverbial "same boat" on here,.....and we can't get a consensus other than..."Don't bother to fight,......"




After the last couple of freight contracts before I retired,....I certainly don't trust a lot of institutions.......

Would you think I had a reason?

I am convinced there is a massive effort to..."sell"...defined-contribution 401(k)'s to working people,....and part of that "selling"...is a concerted effort to....ruin defined-benefit pensions.......




And,....Absolutely,......So,..Why even bother to go through the motions of a "vote"? To give the illusion that it's a "democratic" process?....To have the ability a few years from now, when everyone forgets the "vote" totals,..to say: "Hey! You guys voted for your pension cut!"..?
11,000 "non-votes".....is a farce.......The gentleman that ran W. Pa's retiree representative position had about 7 seminars all across the tri-state area....Thousands of retirees turned out,........It was made VERY CLEAR that if you don't vote,....it counts as a "yes"....

And then we see amongst the people who "did vote"......it was overwhelmingly against the pension cut....9,000 to 2,000....

You can't tell me with a straight face,......that "11,000" people decided not to return the ballot that was sent to their house......

It was a bald-faced alteration of the outcome,....And I'm supposed to...."trust"....these mountebanks in the Treasury Department?
Especially when they had the ...legal means to just declare a pension cut.....without a vote?

You guys are right,....we should just give up and..."trust" 'em.....Resistance is Futile,...right?
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You're not a college professor- Stop the political wannabe lectures, and research the rules of the Treasury cuts.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Well, Professor,....do you think the rules are fair,....if the non-votes are more important than the votes?
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Opinion Doesn't matter. They're the rules. Treasury and Congress set them. Write to your Congressman. And I'm not a Professor either.

Just like IF the Butch Lewis Act passes. In its current form, Only CSPF qualifies for bailout. Your WestPa would Not be, per Karen Friedman writings.
 
dokman said:
Dude you don’t trust anyone.
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I'm going to throw in, that it's not trust- but using an organizing tactic of identifying a scapegoat in his Long posts. Straight out of a class by Professor Saul Alinsky (Professor/Communist/ Author/Organizer).

Tweetybird's lectures all share the same theme:
1: the first couple paragraphs set the scenario
2: the next paragraph or two sets how the members were screwed.
3: the end paragraph sets the scapegoat/the offending party.

In a past life, he could have been a sergeant in the trenches, ordering "set bayonets, Boys- we're about to go Over the Top, and kill the Hun!"

It is a good, common tactic if we were organizing against a mean employer. Unfortunately, we're fighting Math. There simply isnt enough money for the promises we were given.
 
jimmy g said:
I'm going to throw in, that it's not trust- but using an organizing tactic of identifying a scapegoat in his Long posts. Straight out of a class by Professor Saul Alinsky (Professor/Communist/ Author/Organizer).

Tweetybird's lectures all share the same theme:
1: the first couple paragraphs set the scenario
2: the next paragraph or two sets how the members were screwed.
3: the end paragraph sets the scapegoat/the offending party.

In a past life, he could have been a sergeant in the trenches, ordering "set bayonets, Boys- we're about to go Over the Top, and kill the Hun!"

It is a good, common tactic if we were organizing against a mean employer. Unfortunately, we're fighting Math. There simply isnt enough money for the promises we were given.
Click to expand...
And you get an A+ post for the day well said.
It is all math.

Mr Chairman I yield back.
 
jimmy g said:
I'm going to throw in, that it's not trust- but using an organizing tactic of identifying a scapegoat in his Long posts. Straight out of a class by Professor Saul Alinsky (Professor/Communist/ Author/Organizer).

Tweetybird's lectures all share the same theme:
1: the first couple paragraphs set the scenario
2: the next paragraph or two sets how the members were screwed.
3: the end paragraph sets the scapegoat/the offending party.

In a past life, he could have been a sergeant in the trenches, ordering "set bayonets, Boys- we're about to go Over the Top, and kill the Hun!"

It is a good, common tactic if we were organizing against a mean employer. Unfortunately, we're fighting Math. There simply isnt enough money for the promises we were given.
Click to expand...


Hah!.......You're absolutely terrified of my...opinions, aren't you? So you try to paint me as some sort of incendiary acolyte of......Saul Alinsky?

You give me too much credit......I barely got through 10th grade,...and my GED is from the military.......

If you don't like my posts.......Ignore them,....hell ...Ignore me.......

But if you think I'm going to quit posting because you've declared me "Guilty"....in the Rush Limbaugh School of Identifying Subversives.........

Har......I guess everyone needs a Bogeyman,....I'll be your Bogeyman.....
 
Tweety bird in the cage:

If I post a crazy idea, I'm just an ignorant dumbazz kooky driver. But YOU let everyone know that YOU were once a 16 year Proud Steward!!!!

Stewards have the duty and responsibility to know the contracts, regulations, laws, and past practices before opening their mouths like you did stirring the pot with conspiracy theories that the Treasury fixed the numbers. That was not only irresponsible, - but, if some of today's crazy people start an action because they believe a steward told them to revolt- you could be sued or even be criminally liable. That's why no one wants to be a representative these days.

Then, after it was pointed out that Treasury had the Right and Duty to overrule a vote- you wanted to ask people's opinions. Opinions don't matter- only the law and the math matter.

I DO hope that you better represented your fellow Teamsters as a Steward better than the ignorance of the situation you posted about here...
 
jimmy g said:
Tweety bird in the cage:

If I post a crazy idea, I'm just an ignorant dumbazz kooky driver. But YOU let everyone know that YOU were once a 16 year Proud Steward!!!!

Stewards have the duty and responsibility to know the contracts, regulations, laws, and past practices before opening their mouths like you did stirring the pot with conspiracy theories that the Treasury fixed the numbers. That was not only irresponsible, - but, if some of today's crazy people start an action because they believe a steward told them to revolt- you could be sued or even be criminally liable. That's why no one wants to be a representative these days.

Then, after it was pointed out that Treasury had the Right and Duty to overrule a vote- you wanted to ask people's opinions. Opinions don't matter- only the law and the math matter.

I DO hope that you better represented your fellow Teamsters as a Steward better than the ignorance of the situation you posted about here...
Click to expand...



Hey there , Jiminy Cricket!.........You're slipping a bit.......You forgot to mention "Saul Alinsky"....and lay out a powerpoint presentation of....how my Opinions are ruining the country.

To answer your last postulation,......all I can say is that,....I was re-elected several times.....

Hmm,...I guess, in your eyes,....my "silver tongue" has infected the intelligence of those around me! You'd better get cracking and fire off some more Dire Warnings about my sly campaign to defenestrate the Constitution!

Yup!.......Listening to my Opinions will,....like in a Steven King movie,....Drive you Crazy!

You got to Warn Everyone!.... I'm dangerous to listen to!....Your I.Q. will drop!

If my Opinions bother you so much, little Buddy,.......Hit the "ignore" button.......Really, you don't need to play to an "audience" .....
When I get a couple hundred people tell me I'm an idiot,.....Maybe,...just maybe,...I might change my way of thinking...

We are all suffering, when you pompously proclaim: "I don't suffer fools and blowhards well..."..(..hint: Ignore button...).
Repeat that phrase when you go to look in the shaving mirror this morning........

But, apparently,...that don't seem to be the case, does it?
 
Jaloc said:
Hey Feds can pump $75 Billion a day into the banking system but can't bailout pensions! What's going to happen to your economy when those retired stop buying stuff cause their pension is cut?
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I like to use the immediate "solution" the Government is using to counteract the negative effects of tariffs on soybean farmers in the Midwest.........
Apparently,....the government has 16 billion laying around that they can "grant" farmers,...for soybeans they can no longer sell to China......
 
canaryinthemine said:
Hah!.......You're absolutely terrified of my...opinions, aren't you? So you try to paint me as some sort of incendiary acolyte of......Saul Alinsky?

You give me too much credit......I barely got through 10th grade,...and my GED is from the military.......

If you don't like my posts.......Ignore them,....hell ...Ignore me.......

But if you think I'm going to quit posting because you've declared me "Guilty"....in the Rush Limbaugh School of Identifying Subversives.........

Har......I guess everyone needs a Bogeyman,....I'll be your Bogeyman.....
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:438:
 
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