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New Penn | Where does the loyalty lie at this point ??

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Friend of the frog

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Speaking with a NPME driver today and came across this question.

If NPME could be sold under the condition that the labor needed to decertify would you do it ??

Obviously a crazy question, but it hit a nerve with me. I am curious after all the BS from YRCW and the IBT, would you walk away from the union if it meant that NPME would stay in business and remain profitable for years to come.

No bashing please, trying to have an intelligent debate here.
 
Friend of the frog said:
Speaking with a NPME driver today and came across this question.

If NPME could be sold under the condition that the labor needed to decertify would you do it ??

Obviously a crazy question, but it hit a nerve with me. I am curious after all the BS from YRCW and the IBT, would you walk away from the union if it meant that NPME would stay in business and remain profitable for years to come.

No bashing please, trying to have an intelligent debate here.
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you and i have gone at pretty good in the past but you posed a good question so you wont get any bashing from me.

i think most people should know by now that there is no loyalty to the workers in big business. i also feel that there is no "Brotherhood" in the IBT. however, decertifying is a very dangerous proposition that i'm not sure most would even consider. you made the comment about profitability without a union, however, being non-union doesn't guarantee you financial stability. over the last couple of years Jevic & G.O.D have gone out of biz. Conway, AAA Cooper, SEFL, Pitt-Ohio, Ward Trucking, New Century, etc., etc., all have been having financial problems for quite some but the YRC mess has shadowed all of them.

I'm as pissed off as the next guy with our local's (707) decisions but I personally would not decertify. though the IBT isn't innocent, mis-management is the primary cause of YRC's problems. while i understand that having a union workforce may cost NPME more on their bottom line, they have always weathered the storm and remained profitable. they also have little to no labor problems. will it continue ? i'm not sure but decertifying isn't the answer here.
 
A big no here! Althought I am fed up with how the IBT handled this whole thing and our local did whatever they were told and never stood up for us.
With that said.. if this all falls apart , I would not turn down a job I wanted just because they were not union
 
And for the record - I dont feel that the union is at fault here. Not in the slightest.

I do feel that part of the problem in getting NPME sold off is that no one is willing to buy a union carrier, part because of the work rules, but mostly because of the unfunded liability.

It is my honest opinion that is NPME was not union, they would have been sold off a year ago.
 
When the first give back of 10 percent came along we had a meeting with 3 New Penn Vice Presidents at our barn, Who told us that they looked into trying to buy New Penn and even spoke to Arnold about buying it back But the unfunded liability made it undoable. I don't think Union labor is the problem, New Penn has always made money and has always had a top O.R. With that said I personally would not even consider deregulation, But would vote for anyone who ran against our Union Officials from the local level all the way up to the IBT. Also keep in mind that there is a new pension law in congress now that is expected to pass which removes the Orphans and releives some of the more strenuos rules the fund has to follow.
 
What about unfunded pension liability? Decertifying wont make that go away. Better scenario is that NP is spun off as a separate entity and put up for sale. I think this is a more realistic version of your question.
 
New penn has shown that even in these economic times and even with everything being under YRC has done to the company it can still make a profit, We are better than any Union or Non Union company out there dollar for dollar. The pension liability is the only reason it has not been purchashed. Fix the liability and someone can buy a top of the line company that will be viable for a long time to come very cheap.
 
keepingon said:
New penn has shown that even in these economic times and even with everything being under YRC has done to the company it can still make a profit, We are better than any Union or Non Union company out there dollar for dollar. The pension liability is the only reason it has not been purchashed. Fix the liability and someone can buy a top of the line company that will be viable for a long time to come very cheap.
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why would anyone want to buy new penn? they are a good company, but no one needs them. when yrc goes under next week every company out there will be flooded with freight. mostly non union companies, that want to see the union go away.
 
freightpimp said:
why would anyone want to buy new penn? they are a good company, but no one needs them. when yrc goes under next week every company out there will be flooded with freight. mostly non union companies, that want to see the union go away.
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What makes you think that they will fold Newpenn even if YRC goes chapter 11 or Reddaway or even Holland The regional's ARE making money.Here is one good reason YRC does not want to sell them ...:Flame-On:They would not be able to compete with them period.

As far as Frog's question goes,I would say no,to decertify would be like taking more steps backwards,I also do not like what is going on with the IBT and how they are doing things maybe if they told the truth a little more often it would help but stop with the threats already...
 
Crazy - Not sure what you mean about them not folding NPME. There are really only 2 options. They file chapter 11 (reorganization) and the banks make them sell it to raise cash. Very simple.

Finding a buyer, who would like to buy a profitable union carrier with hundreds of millions of dollars in unfunded pension liability, not quite as simple.

This has not been discussed, but say NPME gets sold and YRC goes down, the full pension liability falls on the shoulders of ABF and NPME, hows that for paying the price of success.

Option number 2 shut the whole thing down.


I am not sure what decrtifying really means and what it entails, but to look at this objectively, YRC is not getting out of this, which make ABF the next stop along the route. How many drivers can they take ?? Most guys will be working non union anyway.

Would you rather stay with a non union NPME or Conway, Estes, FedEx, etc........????

I know its a tough question
 
If it works, don't fix it. Zollars should've done that and any new owners should follow the same philosophy. It's living proof that a company can still profit and be the best even if they employ Teamsters under the NMFA..And should we go down, it will be an undisputable argument for that exact point,forever. Never to be able to be changed. You don't have to take rights from the employees to profit. I was told that last year was the first year they ever laid off at our terminal. Good management. Good union crew. Good system. If it works there is absolutely no need to fix what isn't broken. And anybody who thinks they must would probably screw it up as bad as YRC has.
 
Friend of the frog said:
Speaking with a NPME driver today and came across this question.

If NPME could be sold under the condition that the labor needed to decertify would you do it ??

Obviously a crazy question, but it hit a nerve with me. I am curious after all the BS from YRCW and the IBT, would you walk away from the union if it meant that NPME would stay in business and remain profitable for years to come.

No bashing please, trying to have an intelligent debate here.
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No way they would walk all over the employees without the union do whatever they want .Most of the men in my barn have over 20 years in the pension and teamsters union.Now am i happy with yrc and the ibt hell no, but you would never see us decerify. Newpenn has been profitable with paying all the union bennies and pension i believe we will stay in business and stay union for shure.
 
freightpimp said:
why would anyone want to buy new penn? they are a good company, but no one needs them. when yrc goes under next week every company out there will be flooded with freight. mostly non union companies, that want to see the union go away.
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If yrc files chapter 11 or 7 they will still be able to operate thats what i dont think you understand. This will just wipe their debt out they wont need the bondholders to agree no more dead lines.Its just like when a person files for it they get new credit cards and start over.
 
scottman920 said:
If yrc files chapter 11 or 7 they will still be able to operate thats what i dont think you understand. This will just wipe their debt out they wont need the bondholders to agree no more dead lines.Its just like when a person files for it they get new credit cards and start over.
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Chapter 11 they may stay in business:clap:

Chapter 7 it's over:nutkick::nutkick:
 
scottman920 said:
If yrc files chapter 11 or 7 they will still be able to operate thats what i dont think you understand. This will just wipe their debt out they wont need the bondholders to agree no more dead lines.Its just like when a person files for it they get new credit cards and start over.
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i dont know if you ever worked for a company that filed chapter 11. when that happens, no one will give you freight and thats when you go out of business.
 
Friend of the frog said:
And for the record - I dont feel that the union is at fault here. Not in the slightest.

I do feel that part of the problem in getting NPME sold off is that no one is willing to buy a union carrier, part because of the work rules, but mostly because of the unfunded liability.

It is my honest opinion that is NPME was not union, they would have been sold off a year ago.
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why decertification?
not an option nor answer
company at that point would follow the same route conway & fed ex --- arbitrary cuts with no employee input:nutkick:

this is probably the only time i will agree with you as the union is definitely not at fault
corporate is alone at fault

the only potential buyer that makes any sense for new penn is abf
new penn's 1-2 day operation would fit in seamlessly with abf as abf has the utility operation in full swing and both have same work rules

in addition the labor agreement is identical to abf's along with the pension system
if ups is interested that deal would be much to complicated to pull off especially with them not wishing to be part of a multi employer system not to mention the different contract

in abf's case since they are already in such a system it would be easier to do
sure the liability would rise some but it is only a real liability if the company withdraws

the potential bennies corporate-wise outweighs the risks

hell they wouldn't even have to paint the tractors

and most importantly in abf's mind, the price will be right
 
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