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ABF | 2023 Contract Proposals

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
I know I asked this before, but it gets your heart rate up and that's good for your health.
If the work gets done at the 70% rate, why is the senior driver worth 30% more to do the same job?
Why do you think I am proposing it be changed? If I had my way there would be no progression at all. You would start at top rate. But, hopefully we can get the progression pay removed completely over time. It just ain’t going to happen all at once. I see this progression the exact opposite as you. You think that everyone should be paid at the 70% to save the company money. I think that everyone should be paid at 100% and more which is why I will be proposing big raises as well. Especially when the company operated at an 89.9 OR and profited $260 million.
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
Why do you think I am proposing it be changed? If I had my way there would be no progression at all. You would start at top rate. But, hopefully we can get the progression pay removed completely over time. It just ain’t going to happen all at once. I see this progression the exact opposite as you. You think that everyone should be paid at the 70% to save the company money. I think that everyone should be paid at 100% and more which is why I will be proposing big raises as well. Especially when the company operated at an 89.9 OR and profited $260 million.
You are forgetting one thing SOR...the original poster is the one who voted in progression screwing the guys after him since it didnt affect him......
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
You are forgetting one thing SOR...the original poster is the one who voted in progression screwing the guys after him since it didnt affect him......
Oh, it affected me. I went to Yellow in '99. I had 2 million safe driving miles and was triples qualified. Started at 70%.
The membership ratified the contract. I was never king.
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
Oh, it affected me. I went to Yellow in '99. I had 2 million safe driving miles and was triples qualified. Started at 70%.
The membership ratified the contract. I was never king.
I think you know what I was saying... when you voted for that contract when progression was put in place, right? You never thought it would affect you...
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
Yes I'm aware of that.....but only one moron thinks it's because a driver is really only worth that much...
I assume I am the moron of whom you speak.
I believe any employee in any industry is worth as much as it takes to hire a qualified person to do the job well. Today, companies are offering higher wages and bonuses to attract employees because that is what the market demands. Setting an arbitrary number assumes all labor is of equal value, it is not. A dock worker's labor is not worth as much as a CDL delivery driver. The smaller the pool of qualified people, the higher the value of their labor. Architects are paid more than carpenters.
I see the new contract proposals posted by SOR. Typical union labor theory is that the company made a profit, and it belongs to us, it does not. Profits belong to the owners of the company.
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
I assume I am the moron of whom you speak.
I believe any employee in any industry is worth as much as it takes to hire a qualified person to do the job well. Today, companies are offering higher wages and bonuses to attract employees because that is what the market demands. Setting an arbitrary number assumes all labor is of equal value, it is not. A dock worker's labor is not worth as much as a CDL delivery driver. The smaller the pool of qualified people, the higher the value of their labor. Architects are paid more than carpenters.
I see the new contract proposals posted by SOR. Typical union labor theory is that the company made a profit, and it belongs to us, it does not. Profits belong to the owners of the company.
Whatever you say.....when a company loses money it is up to the employees to take cuts....when a company makes money it has nothing to do with the employees....ok got it...
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
I assume I am the moron of whom you speak.
I believe any employee in any industry is worth as much as it takes to hire a qualified person to do the job well. Today, companies are offering higher wages and bonuses to attract employees because that is what the market demands. Setting an arbitrary number assumes all labor is of equal value, it is not. A dock worker's labor is not worth as much as a CDL delivery driver. The smaller the pool of qualified people, the higher the value of their labor. Architects are paid more than carpenters.
I see the new contract proposals posted by SOR. Typical union labor theory is that the company made a profit, and it belongs to us, it does not. Profits belong to the owners of the company.
Apparently, you have not worked on a freight dock (break bulk or larger facility) in a very long time. Most of it is based on cut times for out-bound freight so that it gets to its destination for delivery on time. Nothing is done on a freight bill anymore. It is all entered on a tablet including any OS&D, weight changes, trailer number or dock location, splitting a shipment (A&B bill), creating a no-bill, and the list goes on and on. Just learning all the various functions of the tablet can take months. And chances are good that years later, you will learn a new function of the tablet like adding freight to a Passover load (Out-Bound). Not to mention the new Mobile Platforms that takes a whole new series of steps to enter a loaded shipment. So, before you speak about how the value of a dock employee is not as important as a truck driver with a CDL, maybe you should do your research. And, just so you know, here at the Rock, all of our full time dock employees with the exception of two who are medically disqualified and four others that are scheduled for driving school in June have their CDL’s with all of the required endorsements. Compliments of a grievance filed by myself and the other steward and presented by my butt-kicking business agent back in 2014.
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
Apparently, you have not worked on a freight dock (break bulk or larger facility) in a very long time. Most of it is based on cut times for out-bound freight so that it gets to its destination for delivery on time. Nothing is done on a freight bill anymore. It is all entered on a tablet including any OS&D, weight changes, trailer number or dock location, splitting a shipment (A&B bill), creating a no-bill, and the list goes on and on. Just learning all the various functions of the tablet can take months. And chances are good that years later, you will learn a new function of the tablet like adding freight to a Passover load (Out-Bound). Not to mention the new Mobile Platforms that takes a whole new series of steps to enter a loaded shipment. So, before you speak about how the value of a dock employee is not as important as a truck driver with a CDL, maybe you should do your research. And, just so you know, here at the Rock, all of our full time dock employees with the exception of two who are medically disqualified and four others that are scheduled for driving school in June have their CDL’s with all of the required endorsements. Compliments of a grievance filed by myself and the other steward and presented by my butt-kicking business agent back in 2014.
That whole long dissertation is nonsense. A casual can do the same job as the seniority employee for less money, therefore the job is worth the casual rate. I didn't say it, your union did. The contract says doing the job should pay the casual rate. Therefore, that is what the job is worth!
 

mud

Wonderin'
Premium
That whole long dissertation is nonsense. A casual can do the same job as the seniority employee for less money, therefore the job is worth the casual rate. I didn't say it, your union did. The contract says doing the job should pay the casual rate. Therefore, that is what the job is worth!
The new casual learns how to do the job from the teaching of the seniority
employee, as do the new supervisors.
The sign of a good new supervisor is, the one who realizes who the enemy really is.
 

vongrimmenstein

I stand for our flag, & kneel for the fallen
Apparently, you have not worked on a freight dock (break bulk or larger facility) in a very long time. Most of it is based on cut times for out-bound freight so that it gets to its destination for delivery on time. Nothing is done on a freight bill anymore. It is all entered on a tablet including any OS&D, weight changes, trailer number or dock location, splitting a shipment (A&B bill), creating a no-bill, and the list goes on and on. Just learning all the various functions of the tablet can take months. And chances are good that years later, you will learn a new function of the tablet like adding freight to a Passover load (Out-Bound). Not to mention the new Mobile Platforms that takes a whole new series of steps to enter a loaded shipment. So, before you speak about how the value of a dock employee is not as important as a truck driver with a CDL, maybe you should do your research. And, just so you know, here at the Rock, all of our full time dock employees with the exception of two who are medically disqualified and four others that are scheduled for driving school in June have their CDL’s with all of the required endorsements. Compliments of a grievance filed by myself and the other steward and presented by my butt-kicking business agent back in 2014.
I have been retired 6 years now. And in that time frame a whole slew of new rules, electronics, policies, equipment, & so forth would be a new world to me. Yea you never forget how to drive a fork lift, but loading a sled with freight then shoving it in a trailer, would be a whole new experience. Things are changing constantly. A CDL delivery or dock job requires you to learn new things & how to adapt to the changes. They may be different, but it is still a constant learning curve. von.
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
That whole long dissertation is nonsense. A casual can do the same job as the seniority employee for less money, therefore the job is worth the casual rate. I didn't say it, your union did. The contract says doing the job should pay the casual rate. Therefore, that is what the job is worth!
Casuals drive in the city too genius. Do you even think before you spout off your anti-union BS? The job is worth whatever is negotiated between the company and the union. We then vote either to accept it or not. And you used to call yourself a union man. You are more pro company than most of the people I know in management. What a disgrace you are.
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
Casuals drive in the city too genius. Do you even think before you spout off your anti-union BS? The job is worth whatever is negotiated between the company and the union. We then vote either to accept it or not. And you used to call yourself a union man. You are more pro company than most of the people I know in management. What a disgrace you are.
I never met a "union man" above the steward level that was not pro company. The company writes the checks. It's the company that provides the jobs and benefits. When the company fails, watch how fast the union cancels your insurance.
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
Whatever you say.....when a company loses money it is up to the employees to take cuts....when a company makes money it has nothing to do with the employees....ok got it...
Companies lose or make money because of resource management. Your hero SOR refuses to admit that. He doesn't believe that ABF has prospered while other companies failed because of excellent management.
Trucking has no product. They own nothing on the truck. The only controllable cost is labor. So, unfortunately, when management fails to properly manage resources, the only significant savings must come from labor. That requires a labor force that is cooperative and willing to compromise to save jobs. The easiest place to find cost savings is in work rules not wages. The companies that do more with less are the most profitable.
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
I never met a "union man" above the steward level that was not pro company. The company writes the checks. It's the company that provides the jobs and benefits. When the company fails, watch how fast the union cancels your insurance.
So you are saying that when a non-union company fails that the employee still has insurance coverage with the failed company? Our contract clearly states what is required for us to have healthcare coverage. Here in the Southern Region, you must have three contributions or tours on your behalf to have health care coverage for that week. Again, try thinking before you spout off and show your true colors.
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
Companies lose or make money because of resource management. Your hero SOR refuses to admit that. He doesn't believe that ABF has prospered while other companies failed because of excellent management.
Oh now that’s a good idea. Take a shot at a moderator to try and prove your point. I bet that gets your point across to everyone. When or where have I ever said that ABF has poor management or excellent management? Not saying I haven’t made a statement one way or the other, I just don’t recall doing so. I have stated that ABF is very innovative and not afraid to try new ideas like U-Pack, ReloCube, and Mobile Platforms. If you ain’t Bubba Gump, you are most certainly his identical twin.

Trucking has no product. They own nothing on the truck. The only controllable cost is labor. So, unfortunately, when management fails to properly manage resources, the only significant savings must come from labor. That requires a labor force that is cooperative and willing to compromise to save jobs. The easiest place to find cost savings is in work rules not wages. The companies that do more with less are the most profitable.
No different than any other company or business that sells service. They own the equipment used for the service but not the service itself. And you said that my comments in post #90 was nonsense. Any other brilliant points you want to share with us old dumb drivers and laborers there genius!
 
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ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
What's interesting about this back and forth is RB talks about favoring management, while making statements that even a 2nd grader would know....such as a company must be profitable...we all know this RB...you talk about work rules and I will tell you they have changed since you last worked....as far as the hero comment, I would say respected friend as I believe SOR isn't a big sissy who waits until "his retirement papers are in" to correct someone in a safety meeting...
 
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