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Anti-union propaganda in LA?

You are right. He does have a right to his opinion, as we all do :smilie_132:
 
GI-Joe said:
Lighten up Silvertooth...if you can only spuuuu bad things about our company go away. There are many who care about it and I am one of them. :smilie_132:
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:stupid:

I don't care what you care about! Why don't you go ahead and "spuuu" your positive information, then I can come back and reply, and we can let the viewers of this forum decide for themselves. Its a good thing you care about your company, too bad they couldn't care less about you.....
 
Season's greetings from a non OHFL driver.I log in just to follow this thread.In your ongoing conversation the one thing I haven't seen mentioned is a part of the union philosophy integral to all unions.I agree that non-union shops have a decided advantage in labor costs,it's difficult to prove otherwise;as part of the union belief,the unions have an obligation to organize the competition to help minimize that advantage.
It seems to me that in the 80's the Teamsters chose to give up organizing drivers and focused on clerks,policemen,deputies and other groups.Just my 2cents worth.
 
late cut said:
Season's greetings from a non OHFL driver.I log in just to follow this thread.In your ongoing conversation the one thing I haven't seen mentioned is a part of the union philosophy integral to all unions.I agree that non-union shops have a decided advantage in labor costs,it's difficult to prove otherwise;as part of the union belief,the unions have an obligation to organize the competition to help minimize that advantage.
It seems to me that in the 80's the Teamsters chose to give up organizing drivers and focused on clerks,policemen,deputies and other groups.Just my 2cents worth.
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YYou are absolutely correct, we must organize to survive. We have a poor public image and face a world of very alert, and well-organized corporations. What we have to offer is so simple, I wish someone that works for a non-union carrier and thinks its great, could spend a month working at a NMFA company then they would understand.

The conditions are so much better, not even considering the pay or pension. The work rules; the attention paid to seniority, overtime, and the respect for the elderly employees who have put their time in. It is a good feeling to be treated fairly and to know someday when you get old you wont get fired just cause you can't be as productive as you once were.

This company has no respect for anything but its bottom line. They would love nothing more than to shake the Teamsters forever, this company has a dedicated bunch of employees whom have made great sacrifices for this company. Over the years they have given them concessions in hopes they would grow and profit. Profit and grow they have, but instead of thanking the employees by restoring them to industry leading pay and benefits they once enjoyed, they fight tooth and nail for everything.

They need to open their books to the Teamsters, and until they are willing to do that I see no reason they should not be on a carbon copy of the NMFA. Believe me, if they were broke they would be shoving their balance sheet down our throats.
 
It's not always about the money.That is part of it.But in places like No Cal (OAK,SAC) where
resources (bodies) are at a premium,it sometimes comes down to how you treat people.Union or not.People change jobs but in this climate employee retention can be so critical.And I think that sometime management loses sight of that.Instead of finding ways to fire people look for ways to
keep them.
 
Thanks for the welcome.

I understand a bus will be returning SAC.So, apparently to prevent himself from being thrown under it,the dispatcher has given notice.I guess it's his fault they can't get any business.

I hate how these jacka@$#* treat people.
 
But I swear saw a memo from Ron K. saying how the company "would always treat the non-union employees better than those they have to face across the negotiating table".

Are you saying they treat you all on the non-union as poorly as they treat us evil unionized employees?

(Intense Sarcasm Alert)

I'm... I'm stunned. Stunned...:toxic:
 
Hockey Puck said:
Shifterknob -

I went to the Dark Tower link you posted...kinda creepy! Hope you aren't trying to tell us something.......

OK, so you opened the comparison door with your ABF/CF example, so I'm jumping right in.

No doubt, CF was badly managed, ABF is extremely well run. But take a look at the list of the top 27 LTL carriers in America today based upon annual revenue listed in Transport Topics a couple of weeks ago. Here it goes, with the largest one listed first;

1. YRC World Wide (union)
2. Fed Ex Freight
3. Con-Way Freight
4. UPS Freight
5. ABF (union)
6. Estes
7. Watkins (now Fed Ex too)
8. SCS (Saia)
9. Old Dominion
10. Averitt
11. R and L
12. Southeastern
13. Lyden
14. Transforce Income Fund (Canadian)
15. AAA Cooper
16. CenTra (Central Transport)
17. Central Freight Lines
18. Vitran
19. New England Motor Express (Machinists Union)
20. Roadrunner Dawes
21. Forward Air
22. Pitt Ohio
23. A. Duie Pyle
24. PJAX
25. Milan
26. Wilson
27. Daylight

Gee, only 3 are organized, 2 are Teamster. Now I'm figuring that you have been around for a while, and you obviously are an intellegent guy since you write very well, so I'm sure you can visualize what this list looked like 10 or 15 years ago. I can, and it sure didn't look like this. There were sure alot more Teamster carriers listed then than there are now. In fact, over the last 10-15 years, virtually all of the growth in the LTL game has been by the non-union carriers, while the old line Teamster carriers have gone under, one by one, leaving this list today.

Now, you just can't tell me it is all because of "Bad Management". All of the non-union companies, who have grown over this time period, are the only ones with good management, that made all the good decisions, while all of the Teamster carriers that are now in the graveyard were all universally badly managed. That arguement holds no water with me.

It is time to face facts. Our industry features operating margins like the supermarket industry. Slim and none. Labor expense accounts for 50%-65% of an LTL carrier's total cost. If you have a 5% to 10% cost advantage in labor costs (including benefits, where the real difference lies union vs. nonunion), that is huge. Come on, which one of these LTL carriers pays OT? At best, nonunion guys get it after 45 plus hours a week, not like union carriers with OT after 8 hours.

Comments?
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Hockeypuck,

YRCW is not a trucking company; it is a holding company. Each of the entities that are constituents of YRCW are separately operated. The nature of your list would change if this is taken into account. Yellow Transportation would be a separate listing from Roadway, New Penn, Bestway/Reddaway, Holland and Riemer.
 
I lean more toward a non-union preference.But my point was more about the treatment of people at 1 particular (yes nonunion) facility.And when the issue is pushed with the management of that place someone gets thrown under the bus.
 
Hockey Puck said:
Shifterknob -

I went to the Dark Tower link you posted...kinda creepy! Hope you aren't trying to tell us something.......

OK, so you opened the comparison door with your ABF/CF example, so I'm jumping right in.

No doubt, CF was badly managed, ABF is extremely well run. But take a look at the list of the top 27 LTL carriers in America today based upon annual revenue listed in Transport Topics a couple of weeks ago. Here it goes, with the largest one listed first;

1. YRC World Wide (union)
2. Fed Ex Freight
3. Con-Way Freight
4. UPS Freight
5. ABF (union)
6. Estes
7. Watkins (now Fed Ex too)
8. SCS (Saia)
9. Old Dominion
10. Averitt
11. R and L
12. Southeastern
13. Lyden
14. Transforce Income Fund (Canadian)
15. AAA Cooper
16. CenTra (Central Transport)
17. Central Freight Lines
18. Vitran
19. New England Motor Express (Machinists Union)
20. Roadrunner Dawes
21. Forward Air
22. Pitt Ohio
23. A. Duie Pyle
24. PJAX
25. Milan
26. Wilson
27. Daylight

Gee, only 3 are organized, 2 are Teamster. Now I'm figuring that you have been around for a while, and you obviously are an intellegent guy since you write very well, so I'm sure you can visualize what this list looked like 10 or 15 years ago. I can, and it sure didn't look like this. There were sure alot more Teamster carriers listed then than there are now. In fact, over the last 10-15 years, virtually all of the growth in the LTL game has been by the non-union carriers, while the old line Teamster carriers have gone under, one by one, leaving this list today.

Now, you just can't tell me it is all because of "Bad Management". All of the non-union companies, who have grown over this time period, are the only ones with good management, that made all the good decisions, while all of the Teamster carriers that are now in the graveyard were all universally badly managed. That arguement holds no water with me.

It is time to face facts. Our industry features operating margins like the supermarket industry. Slim and none. Labor expense accounts for 50%-65% of an LTL carrier's total cost. If you have a 5% to 10% cost advantage in labor costs (including benefits, where the real difference lies union vs. nonunion), that is huge. Come on, which one of these LTL carriers pays OT? At best, nonunion guys get it after 45 plus hours a week, not like union carriers with OT after 8 hours.

Comments?
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I think it is important to note the size of these companies, for instance YRC and Fed-Ex are huge companies and saia #8 on that list is very small in comparison, I bet the combined market share of the last 17 carriers on your 27 carrier list are not even equal to that of one of the top four.

Where I live every carrier has to pay OT after 40.

So you have a good point, us Teamster boys can never be as profitable as the non-unions, while some carriers such as Fed-Ex, do take good care of their people others don't. In the surviving union ltl world we have ultra-efficient management which helps we also keep our employees longer. If non-union carriers were to either take better care of their guys, or organize, the playing field would level and every one of us would enjoy better pay and benefits.

The middle class is on a race to the bottom should we lower our standards and accept less just because others do? The list you posted is misleading; in the ltl sector we run about 40% union and that’s the reason we all make decent money, unlike the TL sector.
 
unlike the TL sector.[/QUOTE]

Especially with the Mexican Nationals coming and willing to work for next to nothing.

Btw Silver, we get that you don't like Oak Harbor, howabout replacing that p___ng Calvin with something less offensive?

Mucho Appreciato..
 
apesadumbrado no algo

I think my avatar accurately expresses my frustrations with OHFL, and I don't really see it as offensive from a visual standpoint. I have seen avatars on Truckingboards that map out sex positions with a “help wanted” sign; I can see how one could consider that to be offensive. I feel the only offence one could derive from my avatar would be based on a difference of opinion, and without difference of opinion these boards would have no reason to exist.

That said if a moderator or several others feel differently, I will gladly censor (blurr)
the buttocks of Calvin, or change my avatar. It’s a shame they don’t make one of Calvin defecating, because that would more precisely express my feelings toward OHFL. Furthermore you only have five short posts, for all I know you could be an OHFL supervisor.
 
silvertooth said:
I think my avatar accurately expresses my frustrations with OHFL, and I don't really see it as offensive from a visual standpoint. I have seen avatars on Truckingboards that map out sex positions with a “help wanted” sign; I can see how one could consider that to be offensive. I feel the only offence one could derive from my avatar would be based on a difference of opinion, and without difference of opinion these boards would have no reason to exist.

That said if a moderator or several others feel differently, I will gladly censor (blurr)
the buttocks of Calvin, or change my avatar. It’s a shame they don’t make one of Calvin defecating, because that would more precisely express my feelings toward OHFL. Furthermore you only have five short posts, for all I know you could be an OHFL supervisor.
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You mean like this one? I thought this avatar to be funny, if anybody at all has a problem with this avatar please feel free to PM me and I will get rid of it, no problem, I think the gentalman questioning your taste in the avatar works for the same company as you, and is problematic with it. Not necessarily your opinion. After all some do have pride in whom they work for...
 
Accelerator said:
You mean like this one? I thought this avatar to be funny, if anybody at all has a problem with this avatar please feel free to PM me and I will get rid of it, no problem, I think the gentalman questioning your taste in the avatar works for the same company as you, and is problematic with it. Not necessarily your opinion. After all some do have pride in whom they work for...
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So his opinion is that he works for a good company, and he is proud of that. My opinion is that his company is a greedy anti-union company. So a difference of opinion does exist, as you can see. And my avatar is an expression of that difference of opinion. Nothing more, the only way it could be considered offensive not based on opinions regarding Oak Harbor is if the offence is taken strictly in the imagery such as Calvin’s naked butt.

So you have made no point here. BTW I do not work for this company.
 
silvertooth said:
So his opinion is that he works for a good company, and he is proud of that. My opinion is that his company is a greedy anti-union company. So a difference of opinion does exist, as you can see. And my avatar is an expression of that difference of opinion. Nothing more, the only way it could be considered offensive not based on opinions regarding Oak Harbor is if the offence is taken strictly in the imagery such as Calvin’s naked butt.

So you have made no point here. BTW I do not work for this company.
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Seems like you would have better things to discuss here other than Calvins naked bottom!
 
silvertooth said:
I think it is important to note the size of these companies, for instance YRC and Fed-Ex are huge companies and saia #8 on that list is very small in comparison, I bet the combined market share of the last 17 carriers on your 27 carrier list are not even equal to that of one of the top four.

Where I live every carrier has to pay OT after 40.

So you have a good point, us Teamster boys can never be as profitable as the non-unions, while some carriers such as Fed-Ex, do take good care of their people others don't. In the surviving union ltl world we have ultra-efficient management which helps we also keep our employees longer. If non-union carriers were to either take better care of their guys, or organize, the playing field would level and every one of us would enjoy better pay and benefits.

The middle class is on a race to the bottom should we lower our standards and accept less just because others do? The list you posted is misleading; in the ltl sector we run about 40% union and that’s the reason we all make decent money, unlike the TL sector.
Click to expand...

I do have too say this, most of what happened to this list in referrance too union , is the end result of deregulation.

The same happened recently with the airline industry.

Anyone who thinks deregulation did not kill the trucking industry is only fooling themselves.

Although the reason for deregulation was too widen the market for competition,and add more jobs, and was never intended too kill the system, someone wanted too make more monies, on labor laws formed in the 1940's which had little too know regulation on health and welfare ,nevermind pay structure.

Well I must admit,silvertooth is rite when he states it is hard too play on an uneven playing field ,which inpart plays a leading role into the demise of these companies.

In order for companies already unionized too compete after deregulation , new policies and a reorganizational structure needed to be put in place, or they lingered on brand. With a stranglehold on price considering size.

Now there is nonunion entities just as big
as union entities, and the benefit & pay structure is similar, if not Identical in most cases.

So what is the problem now?, what do we blame it on?

Mgnt. consideres it too be flexibility. What will it be next? This is nothing more then an irresponsible rant from company officials who lack in self control, and the laws that be allow them too railroad the american trucking work force. Mexicans will be able too bleed in the trucking system soon, watchout non union entaties, you make more then they do, they are lucky they even get paid...

CCX AND FEDX FRT. Are infact 2 well managed companies, this is how they were around for so long and able to grow.
 
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