ABF | Butch Lewis Act

[Crystal]

I have attended 2 town hall type meeting with my congressman Tom Rice (R SC). The first time I asked him to co-sponsor the Butch Lewis act he said he didn't know anything about it. He said he would get back to me on it. He never did. The second time I asked him he said that congress was not in the business of bailing out private pension funds. I told him that it wasn't a bailout but a revenue neutral loan. I asked him then why would a prominent republican leader like Pete King of NY co-sponsor the bill. He just ignored me and moved on............................Right now I would be happy to take only a 30% cut. My pension fund is due to default sometime next year. We will then be taken over by the PBGC and take a 65% cut.

 

[canaryinthemine]

I have attended 2 town hall type meeting with my congressman Tom Rice (R SC). The first time I asked him to co-sponsor the Butch Lewis act he said he didn't know anything about it. He said he would get back to me on it. He never did. The second time I asked him he said that congress was not in the business of bailing out private pension funds. I told him that it wasn't a bailout but a revenue neutral loan. I asked him then why would a prominent republican leader like Pete King of NY co-sponsor the bill. He just ignored me and moved on............................Right now I would be happy to take only a 30% cut. My pension fund is due to default sometime next year. We will then be taken over by the PBGC and take a 65% cut.

Man! Bro. Crystal......that's taking a beating......
Unfortunately, the PBGI is due to run out of funds in 2025........our Congresspeople don't seem to have any urgency to fund that, either......

Not in the business to......bail out private pension plans?
But........they can bail out Wall Street in 2008, and farmers in Iowa in 2017....

I guess we just don't have the political clout.....

 

[crazy]

I have attended 2 town hall type meeting with my congressman Tom Rice (R SC). The first time I asked him to co-sponsor the Butch Lewis act he said he didn't know anything about it. He said he would get back to me on it. He never did. The second time I asked him he said that congress was not in the business of bailing out private pension funds. I told him that it wasn't a bailout but a revenue neutral loan. I asked him then why would a prominent republican leader like Pete King of NY co-sponsor the bill. He just ignored me and moved on............................Right now I would be happy to take only a 30% cut. My pension fund is due to default sometime next year. We will then be taken over by the PBGC and take a 65% cut.

You should have explained it was the government's fault for the pensions being in the shape they are in..

 

[DCM_Doc]

You should have explained it was the government's fault for the pensions being in the shape they are in..

Remind him that Central States was put under "Government Oversight' in the 80's because of alleged corruption. The 'Mob' was investing in Las Vegas casinos, real estate & cathouses. I wonder what the real estate that was bought or going to be bought would be worth today.
The quote Ronald Reagan often used to draw attention to big government, "I'm from the government & I am here to help" comes back to me quite often. Government involvement often results in disaster.

 

[52FARMER]

The government as usual created the problem years ago with their oversight which is useless at minimum.The government sheeple that believe of all the oversight by their useless politicians is always the answer.The government creates the problem and then believes they can solve all problems, but only of course it generates votes for them.

 

[canaryinthemine]

The government as usual created the problem years ago with their oversight which is useless at minimum.The government sheeple that believe of all the oversight by their useless politicians is always the answer.The government creates the problem and then believes they can solve all problems, but only of course it generates votes for them.

I think you've mis-identified the problem. The....problem,....as I see it, is businesses with an agenda and Large Wads of Money, buying influence. Let us not forget that Sen. Mitch McConnell(R-Ky) said, on the floor of the Senate: "Spending is Free Speech....."

Which belies the question: "How much Free Speech can you afford?......And how much can your Employer afford?"

Wall Street was ....horrified...at the thought of Union pension funds,...(..with large blocks of stocks, bonds, and securities..)....doing what the Wall Street Journal called, in an editorial.."Social Engineering" with stocks the pension funds OWNED....

So,......they began a 10 year program to......."de-fund" and gradually eliminate any Union-owned "presence" in the financial and stock world.........culminating in the 2008 collapse of the economy,..and consequent collapse of the value of pension funds...(...and 401(k)'s,...)...

Congress' job,...in the 21st Century, should be,....like it was back in 1929-1941,....to protect the citizenry from rapacious Big Business......you know,...the ones with no morals, or patriotism, or loyalty,.....except to a Dollar,....or Yuan,...or Deutschemark,....

It is in Big Business' interests to....deflect blame AWAY from themselves,...and onto our elected officials.....who are OUR responsibility...

Everyone blames The Gub'mint.....no one blames the selfish money-flasher with a personal agenda, buying access to Gub'mint......

What do you think, Brother?

 

[Crystal]

I just got a nice call from the Teamsters rallying support for the house vote tomorrow. It's good to see them working for our pension

 

[Homesick]

As of last night the Treasury Department announced the results of the vote for the Western Pennsylvania Teamsters Pension fund,.....and 34% voted no,......the remainder of the....participants were counted as "yes" votes,...whether they voted or not.

The proposal in Congress to only count the votes that are received,.....did not get out of the "talking" stage...

Looks like we take a cut....about 30%.......starting August 1st.

There is a....small...chance that, if the Butch Lewis Act,...H.R.397,....gets passed, they may retroactively restore our pensions.....
....the ones we were promised.....

In my case,...the one I worked 41 years of 12 hour days,..to get a 30 year pension based on 8 hour days........

But,...as I stated,.......H.R.397 must get through Congress(probably),........and then through the Senate(possibly)......and then President Trump must sign it into law(doubtful)......

Might be years.......if ever......

Oh,well..........The Meek shall inherit the Earth,........"Meek" must mean disenfranchised working people,......In this case, I feel as if I've been sold the...Brooklyn Bridge.....

Brother, I think the meek of this earth are the people who don't even receive a pension; which is the majority of U.S. citizens. My parents (long dead but not forgotten, God rest their souls) always said people like us, teachers, federal workers, etc where the elite of society. Because we are, or will be, receiving something the majority of Americans do not. I'm not putting us down (we earned our pension) just voicing the opinion of my parents.

 

[52FARMER]

I think you've mis-identified the problem. The....problem,....as I see it, is businesses with an agenda and Large Wads of Money, buying influence. Let us not forget that Sen. Mitch McConnell(R-Ky) said, on the floor of the Senate: "Spending is Free Speech....."

Which belies the question: "How much Free Speech can you afford?......And how much can your Employer afford?"

Wall Street was ....horrified...at the thought of Union pension funds,...(..with large blocks of stocks, bonds, and securities..)....doing what the Wall Street Journal called, in an editorial.."Social Engineering" with stocks the pension funds OWNED....

So,......they began a 10 year program to......."de-fund" and gradually eliminate any Union-owned "presence" in the financial and stock world.........culminating in the 2008 collapse of the economy,..and consequent collapse of the value of pension funds...(...and 401(k)'s,...)...

Congress' job,...in the 21st Century, should be,....like it was back in 1929-1941,....to protect the citizenry from rapacious Big Business......you know,...the ones with no morals, or patriotism, or loyalty,.....except to a Dollar,....or Yuan,...or Deutschemark,....

It is in Big Business' interests to....deflect blame AWAY from themselves,...and onto our elected officials.....who are OUR responsibility...

Everyone blames The Gub'mint.....no one blames the selfish money-flasher with a personal agenda, buying access to Gub'mint......

What do you think, Brother?

I think you've mis-identified the problem. The....problem,....as I see it, is businesses with an agenda and Large Wads of Money, buying influence. Let us not forget that Sen. Mitch McConnell(R-Ky) said, on the floor of the Senate: "Spending is Free Speech....."

Which belies the question: "How much Free Speech can you afford?......And how much can your Employer afford?"

Wall Street was ....horrified...at the thought of Union pension funds,...(..with large blocks of stocks, bonds, and securities..)....doing what the Wall Street Journal called, in an editorial.."Social Engineering" with stocks the pension funds OWNED....

So,......they began a 10 year program to......."de-fund" and gradually eliminate any Union-owned "presence" in the financial and stock world.........culminating in the 2008 collapse of the economy,..and consequent collapse of the value of pension funds...(...and 401(k)'s,...)...

Congress' job,...in the 21st Century, should be,....like it was back in 1929-1941,....to protect the citizenry from rapacious Big Business......you know,...the ones with no morals, or patriotism, or loyalty,.....except to a Dollar,....or Yuan,...or Deutschemark,....

It is in Big Business' interests to....deflect blame AWAY from themselves,...and onto our elected officials.....who are OUR responsibility...

Everyone blames The Gub'mint.....no one blames the selfish money-flasher with a personal agenda, buying access to Gub'mint......

What do you think, Brother?

The govt. has the Last Say,after big business and their money grubbers have paid their loyal politicians,to fulfill their wishes.

 

[Puff Driver]

I think you've mis-identified the problem. The....problem,....as I see it, is businesses with an agenda and Large Wads of Money, buying influence. Let us not forget that Sen. Mitch McConnell(R-Ky) said, on the floor of the Senate: "Spending is Free Speech....."

Which belies the question: "How much Free Speech can you afford?......And how much can your Employer afford?"

Wall Street was ....horrified...at the thought of Union pension funds,...(..with large blocks of stocks, bonds, and securities..)....doing what the Wall Street Journal called, in an editorial.."Social Engineering" with stocks the pension funds OWNED....

So,......they began a 10 year program to......."de-fund" and gradually eliminate any Union-owned "presence" in the financial and stock world.........culminating in the 2008 collapse of the economy,..and consequent collapse of the value of pension funds...(...and 401(k)'s,...)...

Congress' job,...in the 21st Century, should be,....like it was back in 1929-1941,....to protect the citizenry from rapacious Big Business......you know,...the ones with no morals, or patriotism, or loyalty,.....except to a Dollar,....or Yuan,...or Deutschemark,....

It is in Big Business' interests to....deflect blame AWAY from themselves,...and onto our elected officials.....who are OUR responsibility...

Everyone blames The Gub'mint.....no one blames the selfish money-flasher with a personal agenda, buying access to Gub'mint......

What do you think, Brother?

Multi Employer Pensions are Ponzi schemes. As long as you are one of the people who have lots of other contributing you have no issue.
Once the amount of contributors begins to soften and there are more collecting from the fund vs. contributing to the fund, the Ponzi Scheme dies. Just ask Bernie Madoff investors. It was great when lots of new folks were buying into it....
The teamsters sat and watched their pensions dry up. They never having a good offer to make others to join in their union. They have not organized a major LTL carrier in the Deregulated Era. They only watched the teamster carriers die off one at a time with no new teamsters to replace the displaced workers.
Any fool could have predicted this disaster, yet they did nothing...
This is not the taxpayers issue. I will get hurt by the pension going insolvent but if the Feds start bailing out pensions the Chicago Teachers will line up for their Billions of $$$$. As will other failing pensions. It will go on forever.
You can only blame the failure on the teamsters.. Good news is union boss's still collect multiple pensions....

 

[canaryinthemine]

Multi Employer Pensions are Ponzi schemes. As long as you are one of the people who have lots of other contributing you have no issue.
Once the amount of contributors begins to soften and there are more collecting from the fund vs. contributing to the fund, the Ponzi Scheme dies. Just ask Bernie Madoff investors. It was great when lots of new folks were buying into it....
The teamsters sat and watched their pensions dry up. They never having a good offer to make others to join in their union. They have not organized a major LTL carrier in the Deregulated Era. They only watched the teamster carriers die off one at a time with no new teamsters to replace the displaced workers.
Any fool could have predicted this disaster, yet they did nothing...
This is not the taxpayers issue. I will get hurt by the pension going insolvent but if the Feds start bailing out pensions the Chicago Teachers will line up for their Billions of $$$$. As will other failing pensions. It will go on forever.
You can only blame the failure on the teamsters.. Good news is union boss's still collect multiple pensions....

Although I am a staunch believer in the idea of Unionism and collective bargaining,.......there are some things you state that I have to agree with......

Mr. Hoffa’s “power grab” ....in my opinion,.....where he had outside help in getting Ron Carey not only removed as Teamster leader,.....but “gagged” by court order.....was the start of a slow, steady decline......

We had a chance with Ron Carey, to reverse some of the effects of deregulation........With Hoffa,.....there was no effort to fight what the big banks and large corporations wanted.....

In fact,......with his disastrous organizing results,......his political infighting, his dismissive attitude about core(freight) industries.....
......his incredible decision to allow UPS to walk out of the CSPF,......his initial support for pension cuts across the board,.....and, when the rank-and-file protested in the strongest terms.......he “reversed” his position, and now offers a tepid support for pension legislation........like he’s sleepwalking.......

The years he had Fric and Frac.......Sweeton and Johnson.........decimate and tear up the NMFA........his fathers’ life’s work......seemed, to me,.....the actions of a man trying to destroy a legacy.......

And then there’s the car hauling contract,......the other national contract.........What a comedy of errors until carhaulers stubbornly resisted the Union .......”leaders”.......increasingly desperate pleas and threats to.......accept a cut-rate contract.....

And the UPS contract......where Mr. Hoffa changed the IBT Constitution,......to allow the Executive board to accept any contract offered by the employer.....REGARDLESS OF THE VOTE.........if they thought it was in the “best interests”......of the rank-and-file......

Where would our Union be today........Where would our PENSIONS be today.........if we had strong....MEMBER ORIENTED leadership for the last 20 years,.........

.........instead of the corporate suck-ups and Wall Street toadies that seem to infest the Marble Palace down in Washington?

You can ......”say”.......you’re For The Working Man...........
........but it is your resultant ACTIONS........that are the PROOF...as to whether you are,........or just lying through that dishonest smile while jamming it up our collective backsides......

I will always believe in the.......Potential......of the Teamsters.....

And pray that someday soon, the rank-and-file get the proper representation they deserve.........

 

[iam4us]

I dont blame our Government, I Blame our Leadership and our members for continuing to vote on contracts that pay into these plans, The Members? Yes, How many times at contract time do you hear guys say, we have to vote to protect our pension, I gotta have that pension.. BullShit!!! There are not enough votes to save these funds.. We voted for our old and out to pasture leaders to be fortunate enough to withdraw a lump sum from our funds.. This fund was doomed from the 80s when i started, Constantly heard it would not survive.. Why cuckhold our employer to pay into a fund on our behalf that will die before most of us get it? That my friends is disgusting business, and equally disgusting we expect our employer to pay into dead fund... Thats on us!!!
I have invested privately, Im good.. But think back where we fought for increases and this pension.. Now kick yourself.. Our negotiators, trustes, etc work for us..Wake up, Hoffa is not an answer he is problem..

 

[Jaloc]

If they can give Iran $150 Billion for a bogus nuclear deal like its nothing they can bailout pensions tell that to your congressmen!

 

[Jaloc]

I dont blame our Government, I Blame our Leadership and our members for continuing to vote on contracts that pay into these plans, The Members? Yes, How many times at contract time do you hear guys say, we have to vote to protect our pension, I gotta have that pension.. !!! There are not enough votes to save these funds.. We voted for our old and out to pasture leaders to be fortunate enough to withdraw a lump sum from our funds.. This fund was doomed from the 80s when i started, Constantly heard it would not survive.. Why cuckhold our employer to pay into a fund on our behalf that will die before most of us get it? That my friends is disgusting business, and equally disgusting we expect our employer to pay into dead fund... Thats on us!!!
I have invested privately, Im good.. But think back where we fought for increases and this pension.. Now kick yourself.. Our negotiators, trustes, etc work for us..Wake up, Hoffa is not an answer he is problem..

Hoffa should not have let UPS leave Central States what happened to that 6 Billion why was it gambled in the stock market casino instead of fixed income?

 

[seabreeze]

Hoffa should not have let UPS leave Central States what happened to that 6 Billion why was it gambled in the stock market casino instead of fixed income?

I hear they bought stock in YRC, with your 6 billion.

 

[Songremainsthesame]

As of last night the Treasury Department announced the results of the vote for the Western Pennsylvania Teamsters Pension fund,.....and 34% voted no,......the remainder of the....participants were counted as "yes" votes,...whether they voted or not.

The proposal in Congress to only count the votes that are received,.....did not get out of the "talking" stage...

Looks like we take a cut....about 30%.......starting August 1st.

There is a....small...chance that, if the Butch Lewis Act,...H.R.397,....gets passed, they may retroactively restore our pensions.....
....the ones we were promised.....

In my case,...the one I worked 41 years of 12 hour days,..to get a 30 year pension based on 8 hour days........

But,...as I stated,.......H.R.397 must get through Congress(probably),........and then through the Senate(possibly)......and then President Trump must sign it into law(doubtful)......

Might be years.......if ever......

Oh,well..........The Meek shall inherit the Earth,........"Meek" must mean disenfranchised working people,......In this case, I feel as if I've been sold the...Brooklyn Bridge.....

Just imagine how the poor CSPF guys feel...

 

[canaryinthemine]

Just imagine how the poor CSPF guys feel...

Yeah........"red-headed stepchildren" comes to mind.......
And the size of their fund dwarfs ours.........we only have about 26,000 people involved......20,000 retirees and beneficiaries,...and 6,000 contributing participants.......

At least we still have UPS as a contributing employer......(..their full-time employees only..).....

and ABF....(..reluctantly...).....

Several smaller employers have pulled out,...paying the Withdrawal Liability penalty.......and shafting their employees by offering to match a 401(K) up to 5%.........which, as it turns out,.......is usually about $150-$200 less a week than what was negotiated for years for the pension fund contribution.......Companies "match" about $50 a week,......and then can pocket the other $150-$200 they USED to pay into the Fund....

Don't forget!! You'll Be A Millionaire With Your 401(K)!!
......(....and,...umm.....Thanks for the extra company profits we no longer have to pay to you stinky workers!!....)........

 

[Jaloc]

Yeah........"red-headed stepchildren" comes to mind.......
And the size of their fund dwarfs ours.........we only have about 26,000 people involved......20,000 retirees and beneficiaries,...and 6,000 contributing participants.......

At least we still have UPS as a contributing employer......(..their full-time employees only..).....

and ABF....(..reluctantly...).....

Several smaller employers have pulled out,...paying the Withdrawal Liability penalty.......and shafting their employees by offering to match a 401(K) up to 5%.........which, as it turns out,.......is usually about $150-$200 less a week than what was negotiated for years for the pension fund contribution.......Companies "match" about $50 a week,......and then can pocket the other $150-$200 they USED to pay into the Fund....

Don't forget!! You'll Be A Millionaire With Your 401(K)!!
......(....and,...umm.....Thanks for the extra company profits we no longer have to pay to you stinky workers!!....)........

401k is the biggest scam around when everyone used to have pensions

The worst part is the withdrawal liability payment is only like 7yrs of full pensions payments UPS got the deal of a lifetime it's a shame the union sells out it's members like that while the Union Officers still get full pension opt out or go fair share.

 

[canaryinthemine]

401k is the biggest scam around when everyone used to have pensions

The worst part is the withdrawal liability payment is only like 7yrs of full pensions payments UPS got the deal of a lifetime it's a shame the union sells out it's members like that while the Union Officers still get full pension opt out or go fair share.

Yup....And we're right back to where.....Most, if not All,...of the ills suffered by Union members,....
....are the direct result of....so-called Union "leaders".....having conflicted agendas...
....as far as their...motives go, for dealing honestly,...with management...

We all know that management has "honest" motives.....their stated goals are to: "pay as little as possible, to the fewest employees possible, with the least benefits as possible,....And,...if possible,....break the collective bargaining agreement"......

If only our.......Teamster "leaders".......would state their REAL goals so clearly.........

 

[Jaloc]

How many pension funds could have been bailed out with the $150 Billion they gave to Iran? Make sure to call your congressmen they can pass bill to fund illegal alien assistance but not earned pensions.