ABF | Butch Lewis Act

Our Unions fault.. Not the Govt.. Weak Leadership.. Cant pay, Go away!!
I absolutely blame this Union. Just as members support Democrats and Republicans, We can choose to support Current Leadership and its course.. I do Not!!! Common sense has not prevailed, but our Unions strong insistence that we pay into a dying fund is insane and insane to cuckhold a company to do this.. Everyone else has been provided concessions, allowed to withdraw, Not ABF.. What does our Govt have to do with that? Bad on ABF, Bad on our union.. Depended far too long on ABF to bail out the dying funds to which its not possible. I choose to work at a Union carrier, I dont have to agree with this Union.. Just as I dont have to agree with politics.. And the Love it or Leave it quotes are lame.. I earn my pay, my benefits just as you!!
You don’t have to be union if you don’t want to be. You didn’t have a problem being union when you got the bennies of them but when they are taking a beating you sure seem to be a anti union type. Again, the union is only as strong as its members. If you fold, majority of it’s membership, then it folds. Pretty simple.
 
I absolutely blame this Union. Just as members support Democrats and Republicans, We can choose to support Current Leadership and its course.. I do Not!!! Common sense has not prevailed, but our Unions strong insistence that we pay into a dying fund is insane and insane to cuckhold a company to do this.. Everyone else has been provided concessions, allowed to withdraw, Not ABF.. What does our Govt have to do with that? Bad on ABF, Bad on our union.. Depended far too long on ABF to bail out the dying funds to which its not possible. I choose to work at a Union carrier, I dont have to agree with this Union.. Just as I dont have to agree with politics.. And the Love it or Leave it quotes are lame.. I earn my pay, my benefits just as you!!


As I said a few posts ago,......I support the Idea of Unions,.....and sometimes not the temporary “leaders” of such....
But,...I’ve always made sure my words and actions never caused....long-term damage to the Union Idea.

As an intelligent person,..I hope you’re fighting at a Local level, at least,.....to change our Union for the best.

In our Joint Council......UPS is, by far.....the largest contributor to the Fund......ABF is not “carrying the full load” here....

There are many people in politics I don’t care for....but that doesn’t mean that I’ll become one of those “ They’re All Crooked, It Doesn’t Matter....” people.....

Union “strong insistence” that companies fulfill their contractual obligations......puzzles me a bit. Contract is signed and agreed to.....Are you suggesting re-opening the contract and re-negotiating the pension provisions?

And......How was the company......”cuckholded” .......into signing the contract? Did they not know what they were signing?
No research?
 
I absolutely blame this Union. Just as members support Democrats and Republicans, We can choose to support Current Leadership and its course.. I do Not!!! Common sense has not prevailed, but our Unions strong insistence that we pay into a dying fund is insane and insane to cuckhold a company to do this.. Everyone else has been provided concessions, allowed to withdraw, Not ABF.. What does our Govt have to do with that? Bad on ABF, Bad on our union.. Depended far too long on ABF to bail out the dying funds to which its not possible. I choose to work at a Union carrier, I dont have to agree with this Union.. Just as I dont have to agree with politics.. And the Love it or Leave it quotes are lame.. I earn my pay, my benefits just as you!!
Who said ABF was bailing anything out? Did anyone actually think 7500 teamsters was going to make a dent in the failing funds? ABF agreed on a number and pays in each fund. I would bet the guys in the Western fund don’t agree with you at all. Pretty sure they like their fund. I definitely wish I was in it. If it’s the governments fault why is the Western pension fund not failing. Take your time. Going to bet you don’t have an answer for that one.
 
Just south of JC #40 in W. Pa. is the Fairmont W. VA. Local.....not sure of the number,....but one of the guys at my former terminal retired with pension time there and JC#40.....
His portion from W. Va. is not cut. Not sure what Fund they're in, but they are doing rather well......
......and in a depressed area, too. All the glass houses down around there shut down.

He recently commented that he wished his entire pension was out of the W. VA. Fund......because then he wouldn't have any cut out of his pension.
Anybody know what Fund that is? Western Maryland?
 
Truthfully I don’t know. I’m actually one that blames the government for the pension crisis but I can’t figure out how western states is in such good shape.
The Teamsters don’t run the fund. I believe it is run by Prudential.
 
Who said ABF was bailing anything out? Did anyone actually think 7500 teamsters was going to make a dent in the failing funds? ABF agreed on a number and pays in each fund. I would bet the guys in the Western fund don’t agree with you at all. Pretty sure they like their fund. I definitely wish I was in it. If it’s the governments fault why is the Western pension fund not failing. Take your time. Going to bet you don’t have an answer for that one.
The words Bailout are not used..
 
Who said ABF was bailing anything out? Did anyone actually think 7500 teamsters was going to make a dent in the failing funds? ABF agreed on a number and pays in each fund. I would bet the guys in the Western fund don’t agree with you at all. Pretty sure they like their fund. I definitely wish I was in it. If it’s the governments fault why is the Western pension fund not failing. Take your time. Going to bet you don’t have an answer for that one.
Your right, I dont have an answer.. I never blamed the Govt..Furthest from what i said...
 
UPS does not contribute to our fund. The IBT let them buyout at way to liitle of cost.. Thus a recent proposal that included them to help make it right.. Important to remember, Each fund operates independently. So western may be great, But others are or will be insolvent.. I challenge you to look up the companies that have withdrawn, so numerous, at least in Central States.. I have never said ABF and its 7500 Teamsters should bail this out.. Furthest from the truth. I have said the opposite.. ABF contributes fully, no concessions, many other companies leave and its fmr employees still draw? There is no equation possible to come up with how much withdrawing is worth.. All orphans, and YRC people, companies that withdrew, pay less, should be kicked to the corner as we will be.. After our employer follows contracts, rules.. Something wrong here!!
 
There are 5 people donating more money than all of the Labor Unions combined. ...And in 2017 ,Rich people donated $757 million to politicians through SuperPACs,.....More than 6 times the amount spent by Labor Unions.......

And, yes.......They donate to both sides........

But,...for some reason,....wealthy people want to spend their money on....politicians........."Return on Investment"?

So there is a ........small minority of wealthy people,....who rule our lives through money......

Are they for the......"Common Good"?
Funny that you believe when someone donates money to politicians (or other organizations) they believe they are in "a ........small minority of wealthy people,....who rule our lives through money......" (LOL). This is why I enjoy your posts so much.
 
Funds that were in danger of completely losing company funding,....because they were temporarily 100% funded,.....had to come up with a....."creative solution"......because ERISA rules did NOT allow them to....hold money in reserve,...A "rainy day" savings fund, if you will......
These rules were argued about for....decades.....that I know of.....
Brother, this part sounds like the pension funds where gaming the system? Somewhat like people who game the welfare system or people game social security disability insurance in order to get around the rules. I'm not sure how ethical that is?
 
Truthfully I don’t know. I’m actually one that blames the government for the pension crisis but I can’t figure out how western states is in such good shape.
I agree with Sacs except for the blaming the government. I'm not sure who is at fault but my logic says that government rules apply to all so all pension funds should be failing if it was the governmental rules that caused the failure. But I leave open the possibility that Sacs is correct simply because I don't know exactly how so many pensions got in failure statuses.
 
I agree with Sacs except for the blaming the government. I'm not sure who is at fault but my logic says that government rules apply to all so all pension funds should be failing if it was the governmental rules that caused the failure. But I leave open the possibility that Sacs is correct simply because I don't know exactly how so many pensions got in failure statuses.
I personally blame "The Russians" ! Why not? The Dems did...
 
I have a question.....What happens in a few years when the Butch Lewis Act gets passed? Union-held defined-benefit pensions get restored back to the ...premier retirement vehicle the used to be,.....

Can they be used,..once again,..as a "recruitment tool" for organizing non-Unions? Will defined-contribution 401(K)'s,....having gone through several up and down cycles,..which are endemic to those type of ..."investments"....pale in comparison to...defined- benefit funds?
Will working people start to....clamor,....for the same type of pension that Congress, the Public Employee sector,...teachers,....Municipal and State employees ...have?

Having watched their....."portfolio".....yo-yo up and down,.....and all the Solons and Sages can say is: "Don't Panic!"......do you think that....once defined-benefit, Union-managed MEPFs are....stabilized, through the Butch Lewis Act,.....private employees will,.....once again,....start to hunger for a pension that offers stability and longevity,.....as opposed to the vagaries of the stock market?

A "Time and Longevity" based pension,....instead of trying to...."time"....the stock market?
Brother, this part sounds like the pension funds where gaming the system? Somewhat like people who game the welfare system or people game social security disability insurance in order to get around the rules. I'm not sure how ethical that is?


"Gaming" the system....is breaking the Rules......like those examples you gave.....People who try to "game" welfare or disability,...are Breaking the Law...

The ERISA rules were WRITTEN and DESIGNED to force Union-held Funds to come up with "solutions" to keep from being ...penalized. It was completely O.K. with Congress and Wall Street Lobbyists, if Union Funds spent money they ...would've held for emergencies.....
In fact,....THAT was the outcome that was....EXPECTED...
They DID NOT want MEPFs to have a......."reserve"...in case of an economic recession......Originally ,...That was why they created PBGI....an "insurance" fund...Government-backed,....so that MEPFs did NOT have to keep money in reserve....

Once those..."rules"...are in place,.....and once you DE-FUND the insurance plan that would BACK UP any Fund failure......

......all you need to do,...is engineer an economic collapse,...like 2008,.....to put funds into Dire Straits...
to create that..."perfect storm"...for MEPFs

Starting to....."smell a Rat?"......

Think Congress will.....vote to fully fund Pension Benefit Guarantee Insurance?
 
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Pretty sure those are your words!!! Bail out.
I dont believe ABF should bailout the funds, However I do believe that is the position of our Union.. Thus the lawsuit, the buddy buddy contract after the lawsuit dropped, No negotiating around ABFs contributions.. Stuck stuck and stuck.. ABF has been trying to relay that paying into a dead fund is bad business. Thus I say our union forces ABF,, But lets everyone else have relief..So the word bailout was used, but not the way you referenced.
 
I dont believe ABF should bailout the funds, However I do believe that is the position of our Union.. Thus the lawsuit, the buddy buddy contract after the lawsuit dropped, No negotiating around ABFs contributions.. Stuck stuck and stuck.. ABF has been trying to relay that paying into a dead fund is bad business. Thus I say our union forces ABF,, But lets everyone else have relief..So the word bailout was used, but not the way you referenced.
You said u didn’t say it. That was a lie. That’s what I said.
 
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