ABF | Driver-facing Cameras

[canaryinthemine]

I'm having a problem with the concept that the cameras are illegal because they only focus on one person. The security cameras at banks and convenience stores all have cameras that are focused only on the person standing across the counter from the clerk.

It is true that security cameras can focus on one person at a bank or convenience store. It is also true that each individual has the ability to.....not shop or use that particular facility.
That is not true of an employer changing the rules of employment and requiring a....personal camera attached to your...face, as it were.
Employment-At-Will..(non-Union..) means that the first time you...punch in and ..."accept"...your employer's..."conditions" i.e "cameras"...you have now given them "permission"....to continue viewing you...(...AND owning any video produced....).....
....in spite of NLRB rulings about employers having to ...negotiate...changes in employment conditions.
You've...."accepted"...the camera/condition,...and that negates the law.....

Union contracts spell out and reinforce the NLRB law that requires....negotiations.....BEFORE imposing a new "condition of employment"......
And that is precisely why they haven't turned the cameras on........And,..the companies' ..."argument"..to the Teamsters will be: "Gee,...We've already spent all this massive amount on the technology and installation,....You've GOT to let us use it!"

And,....if the Teamster leadership.......nods it's collective head,...sucks back the drop of drool hanging from it's collective lip,.....and acquiesces to the company pleadings.....and declares: "Negotiations Over! Company Allowed to Play With Their New Toy!"....

That would be an indication to the rank-and-file that the.....Leadership....has lost it's moral foundation, and is beholden to both the trial lawyers, insurance companies, and the employers,......in a sick and incestuous sort of way........

Ooops! I just remembered that the General President of the Teamsters,...is a Lawyer by trade.......

Golly! I hope that doesn't.....influence...him in any way.......

 

[canaryinthemine]

I don't know if anyone saw CBS News this morning,...but they did a piece on facial-recognition cameras,..and the legalities on the intrusion of privacy and civil rights. There are many groups wrestling with the legal (...and MORAL..)...issues of this very fast-moving technology.
Part of the piece was on trucking companies using camera technology to alert sleepy drivers. But then, when they interviewed the trucking company owner,.....he touted the idea that this was ongoing training,......i.e.:discipline......
They said the....."human element" was important,......and discipline would be based on things the camera couldn't see,....like whether the guy was nodding off because he was partying the night before,....or whether he was awake with a sick child the night before.......

Yeah,....Right......."sick child" or not,...you nodded in our truck,....You're fired!

An interesting sidenote was that the interviewer noted that facial recognition and..."eye placement"...could be used on office computer cameras!!.......Lap-Tops and desktops!!......And the CBS news crew and interviewers were.....Horrified!...that their boss could ...Watch Them!......and make sure their eyes were on the...computer screen,...and not gazing out the window,...ON COMPANY TIME!!

Horrors!! How Intrusive!!

Anyway,....the legalities are in deep question,......and the juxtaposition of what China is doing,...400,000,000 cameras on every street and public....and private,......place, so they can identify anyone and where they're at,...instantly,...like jaywalkers or....dissident minority members....
.....was made starkly evident....as in the difference between a free society, and an authoritarian regime....

Stand By on the Driver-facing Camera issue! I predict we'll see a court challenge with a Union trucking company......

....Ohh.....and maybe a grievance or two,.....Hopefully , Ernie and Co. take the privacy issue seriously,...and don't offhandedly give the company permission to.....play with their new toy.....

 

[canaryinthemine]

State of Pennsylvania,.....and other states, are suing Amazon over Alexa devices collecting voice data and violating privacy issues....

Looks like privacy is becoming a hot legal topic all across the board. Hopefully the Teamsters will realize they are at the forefront of this conversation about privacy and the workplace.

 

[retired01776]

There is definitely some fast paced changes going on with this new technology, hard to predict where it is going to go. I took note of an upcoming challenge that has to occur where you mentioned a female driver being observed for hours on end with a camera watching her every move. In any other industry someone would be arrested for doing that?

 

[canaryinthemine]

Been pretty quiet on the Driver-Facing Camera issue for the last couple of weeks...........
Anyone getting the idea that ABF is just biding their time to see if anger and legal questions about this issue.........die down........so that they can just spring it on their workforce some Monday......
....in Hopes that ...most of the guys will shrug,...and accept the intrusive violation of their Right to Privacy?

Anyone know if the Teamster ...."leadership".......has opened up a little-used drawer in their office desk,...and found their Testicles?
Are they fighting this on behalf of their Members?........Or, are they being Complicit in the..."Lying Low for A While"....strategy?

Over and above any Contractual issue......that SHOULD be negotiated......
........I still,......if I was working,.......would HIGHLY RECOMMEND that every driver sign, and give to both Employer and Union,.....a letter stating that the Company does NOT have the Right to....View, Use, Store or Sell,....your Personal Image,....without your express Consent,...on a PER INCIDENCE basis.........

I think many Teamsters will find out that the refusal to allow indiscriminate company use of a personal recording device,.....will be a much greater issue with the Courts,......maybe all the way up to the Supreme Court,........
.........in case the ......."leadership".......drops the ball on Driver-Facing Cameras.......
.........as they have done on so many other issues.......pay cuts, pension cuts, vacation cuts, destruction of the NMFA, lack of organizing,........the list goes on and on.........

The ONLY reason,....in My Opinion,.......that they haven't jammed these...ignorant intrusions,....into our lives,......is that the Company Legal department,........is.....ummm....."advising Caution..".......
.....because THEY haven't quite worked out whatever "legal angle" they're going to try and pull.........(....with,...hopefully, in the Companies' eyes,...Teamster "leadership" consent...)......

A "Lie Low and Hit 'Em When They're Lulled Into Complacency" strategy is what's going on now...........
....Monday Morning,....go put yer arm around the shoulder of Yer Ol' Buddy TM,...and let him know you're still upset that the company would even CONTEMPLATE using cameras like that.......

And,.....Oh, by the way,.....Here's a Letter denying you permission to...use that camera on me........


You'll Make His Week!

 

[seabreeze]

Been pretty quiet on the Driver-Facing Camera issue for the last couple of weeks...........
Anyone getting the idea that ABF is just biding their time to see if anger and legal questions about this issue.........die down........so that they can just spring it on their workforce some Monday......
....in Hopes that ...most of the guys will shrug,...and accept the intrusive violation of their Right to Privacy?

Anyone know if the Teamster ...."leadership".......has opened up a little-used drawer in their office desk,...and found their Testicles?
Are they fighting this on behalf of their Members?........Or, are they being Complicit in the..."Lying Low for A While"....strategy?

Over and above any Contractual issue......that SHOULD be negotiated......
........I still,......if I was working,.......would HIGHLY RECOMMEND that every driver sign, and give to both Employer and Union,.....a letter stating that the Company does NOT have the Right to....View, Use, Store or Sell,....your Personal Image,....without your express Consent,...on a PER INCIDENCE basis.........

I think many Teamsters will find out that the refusal to allow indiscriminate company use of a personal recording device,.....will be a much greater issue with the Courts,......maybe all the way up to the Supreme Court,........
.........in case the ......."leadership".......drops the ball on Driver-Facing Cameras.......
.........as they have done on so many other issues.......pay cuts, pension cuts, vacation cuts, destruction of the NMFA, lack of organizing,........the list goes on and on.........

The ONLY reason,....in My Opinion,.......that they haven't jammed these...ignorant intrusions,....into our lives,......is that the Company Legal department,........is.....ummm....."advising Caution..".......
.....because THEY haven't quite worked out whatever "legal angle" they're going to try and pull.........(....with,...hopefully, in the Companies' eyes,...Teamster "leadership" consent...)......

A "Lie Low and Hit 'Em When They're Lulled Into Complacency" strategy is what's going on now...........
....Monday Morning,....go put yer arm around the shoulder of Yer Ol' Buddy TM,...and let him know you're still upset that the company would even CONTEMPLATE using cameras like that.......

And,.....Oh, by the way,.....Here's a Letter denying you permission to...use that camera on me........


You'll Make His Week!

Good advice Canary, don't know if I wouldn't spend a couple of bucks and have that letter certified.
Hang on to your receipt, things have been known to get lost or misplaced, like an entire ballot box.

 

[Homesick]

Been pretty quiet on the Driver-Facing Camera issue for the last couple of weeks...........
Anyone getting the idea that ABF is just biding their time to see if anger and legal questions about this issue.........die down........so that they can just spring it on their workforce some Monday......
....in Hopes that ...most of the guys will shrug,...and accept the intrusive violation of their Right to Privacy?

Anyone know if the Teamster ...."leadership".......has opened up a little-used drawer in their office desk,...and found their Testicles?
Are they fighting this on behalf of their Members?........Or, are they being Complicit in the..."Lying Low for A While"....strategy?

Over and above any Contractual issue......that SHOULD be negotiated......
........I still,......if I was working,.......would HIGHLY RECOMMEND that every driver sign, and give to both Employer and Union,.....a letter stating that the Company does NOT have the Right to....View, Use, Store or Sell,....your Personal Image,....without your express Consent,...on a PER INCIDENCE basis.........

I think many Teamsters will find out that the refusal to allow indiscriminate company use of a personal recording device,.....will be a much greater issue with the Courts,......maybe all the way up to the Supreme Court,........
.........in case the ......."leadership".......drops the ball on Driver-Facing Cameras.......
.........as they have done on so many other issues.......pay cuts, pension cuts, vacation cuts, destruction of the NMFA, lack of organizing,........the list goes on and on.........

The ONLY reason,....in My Opinion,.......that they haven't jammed these...ignorant intrusions,....into our lives,......is that the Company Legal department,........is.....ummm....."advising Caution..".......
.....because THEY haven't quite worked out whatever "legal angle" they're going to try and pull.........(....with,...hopefully, in the Companies' eyes,...Teamster "leadership" consent...)......

A "Lie Low and Hit 'Em When They're Lulled Into Complacency" strategy is what's going on now...........
....Monday Morning,....go put yer arm around the shoulder of Yer Ol' Buddy TM,...and let him know you're still upset that the company would even CONTEMPLATE using cameras like that.......

And,.....Oh, by the way,.....Here's a Letter denying you permission to...use that camera on me........


You'll Make His Week!

The company has been scheduling meeting at several terminals to explain to the drivers why the company needs the cameras. I am told the B.A. from 004 filed a grievance that this is illegal because it is negotiating directly with the employees. I have to go, enjoy.

 

[canaryinthemine]

The company has been scheduling meeting at several terminals to explain to the drivers why the company needs the cameras. I am told the B.A. from 004 filed a grievance that this is illegal because it is negotiating directly with the employees. I have to go, enjoy.

Thanks for the update.........
........and,....The company knows very well that they are violating NLRB collective bargaining rules. That grievance will succeed.......

The fact that they are putting on an....."information circus".........is just one more piece of evidence that they realize the Proverbial Can 'O' Worms, as far as legality and potential court challenges goes,.....is a pretty stark possible outcome....
.....if they just do what corporations normally do,......and jam it up employee's backsides, and say: "Live with it,....for We are the Rulers of your Life...."......

So!....Let the Sales Pitch Begin! Cameras are for Our Own Good! They Will Save Your Job! Please!...Please! ...Guys!...(..and Girls!..)....Accept them!...We've spent so much money on this...technology......Hey!...what's a little Individual Surveillance amongst friends?.....so a "few" people may be pulled into the office and have their....livelihood threatened?.....Who Cares? They "probably" deserved it.....Hey! They're....troublemakers!....You know......The Ones that...Speak Up,...and Question Management Motives and Tactics!......Or....Horrors!.....they File...GRIEVANCES!....
....You know.....Troublemakers!

Oh!......how they're pining,..down there in Fort Smith,......for unilateral Employment-At-Will laws ...to supersede Collective Bargaining rules........
....that way, they could just issue Proclamations about What Employees Must Do To Keep Getting Paychecks.........like economic Napoleons.....or Lords of the Financial Universe,.......where individual Rights are to be sneered at......laughed at,....and dismissed out of hand....

You Have No Rights, Once You Punch That Timeclock......Just ask the guys working under "Employment-At-Will"........

They have the...."right"....to...suck-up..to their immediate supervisor, so that he treats them...."fairly".....(..when he feels like it...).....

Now,......I have another Impertinent Question..........How Many Panther Trucks have.....Driver-Facing Cameras in them?
Is there any Company Spy monitoring this thread that can....enlighten us....as to whether ArcBest has imposed Driver-facing cameras on it's Employment-At-Will Fleet?
On "TruckingTruth.com"..........Panther is not listed either way, as far as whether Driver-Facing cameras are used....(...for that matter, neither ABF or YRC is listed either way....so the "list" is in no way comprehensive..I just thought that , as a Truckload Carrier,....Panther might be listed as.."having cameras".....since the Overlords at Ft. Smith seem to be making it a ..Big Issue at ABF...)......

Surely I would imagine the Panther Fleet has.....Driver-Facing cameras.........It would be....Supremely Ironic.......if they didn't.......

"Discriminatory".....maybe,....in several senses of the word......

Maybe a Panther Driver could come forth and ....enlighten us.......

 

[6PakAbs]

Thanks for the update.........
........and,....The company knows very well that they are violating NLRB collective bargaining rules. That grievance will succeed.......

The fact that they are putting on an....."information circus".........is just one more piece of evidence that they realize the Proverbial Can 'O' Worms, as far as legality and potential court challenges goes,.....is a pretty stark possible outcome....
.....if they just do what corporations normally do,......and jam it up employee's backsides, and say: "Live with it,....for We are the Rulers of your Life...."......

So!....Let the Sales Pitch Begin! Cameras are for Our Own Good! They Will Save Your Job! Please!...Please! ...Guys!...(..and Girls!..)....Accept them!...We've spent so much money on this...technology......Hey!...what's a little Individual Surveillance amongst friends?.....so a "few" people may be pulled into the office and have their....livelihood threatened?.....Who Cares? They "probably" deserved it.....Hey! They're....troublemakers!....You know......The Ones that...Speak Up,...and Question Management Motives and Tactics!......Or....Horrors!.....they File...GRIEVANCES!....
....You know.....Troublemakers!

Oh!......how they're pining,..down there in Fort Smith,......for unilateral Employment-At-Will laws ...to supersede Collective Bargaining rules........
....that way, they could just issue Proclamations about What Employees Must Do To Keep Getting Paychecks.........like economic Napoleons.....or Lords of the Financial Universe,.......where individual Rights are to be sneered at......laughed at,....and dismissed out of hand....

You Have No Rights, Once You Punch That Timeclock......Just ask the guys working under "Employment-At-Will"........

They have the...."right"....to...suck-up..to their immediate supervisor, so that he treats them...."fairly".....(..when he feels like it...).....

Now,......I have another Impertinent Question..........How Many Panther Trucks have.....Driver-Facing Cameras in them?
Is there any Company Spy monitoring this thread that can....enlighten us....as to whether ArcBest has imposed Driver-facing cameras on it's Employment-At-Will Fleet?
On "TruckingTruth.com"..........Panther is not listed either way, as far as whether Driver-Facing cameras are used....(...for that matter, neither ABF or YRC is listed either way....so the "list" is in no way comprehensive..I just thought that , as a Truckload Carrier,....Panther might be listed as.."having cameras".....since the Overlords at Ft. Smith seem to be making it a ..Big Issue at ABF...)......

Surely I would imagine the Panther Fleet has.....Driver-Facing cameras.........It would be....Supremely Ironic.......if they didn't.......

"Discriminatory".....maybe,....in several senses of the word......

Maybe a Panther Driver could come forth and ....enlighten us.......

where is ol' Bubba Gump (Judy's Boy==company spy) ...when you need him? My bad, he was banned..I know he is reading though...too bad you can't give us insight from Fart Smith...3rd floor...

 

[iam4us]

The company has been scheduling meeting at several terminals to explain to the drivers why the company needs the cameras. I am told the B.A. from 004 filed a grievance that this is illegal because it is negotiating directly with the employees. I have to go, enjoy.

Didnt they violate the "cant negotiate with employees directly" thing back on our previous contract for concessions? You know the one, where they had meetings, must attend, David Evans? You know the one where our Union Leaders sat in attendance and agreed we needed concessions??? Puke of a Union we have.. Think I am going to set a serious precedent and stop dues and file misrepresentation chgs with NLRB.. By the way, If you Union Local President is in his 80's, vote them out.. New more progressive leadership is needed.

 

[canaryinthemine]

Once again,.....anyone know if Panther trucks have cameras?

If they don't,..........I would think the Teamsters could file some sort of discriminatory charge with the NLRB.....

And......if they hurry up and ....install or require cameras in Panther trucks.......I'll bet Dollars to Doughnuts...ArcBest will suddenly have an "employment" problem at Panther.......

Didnt they violate the "cant negotiate with employees directly" thing back on our previous contract for concessions? You know the one, where they had meetings, must attend, David Evans? You know the one where our Union Leaders sat in attendance and agreed we needed concessions??? Puke of a Union we have.. Think I am going to set a serious precedent and stop dues and file misrepresentation chgs with NLRB.. By the way, If you Union Local President is in his 80's, vote them out.. New more progressive leadership is needed.

I'll agree with you about younger progressive leaders,......Under Fair Share, I think....(not sure..).....that you can deny the portion of your dues that go to the International.
Don't de-fund your Local......Many Locals ...especially in the South,....are suffering because many members can save the cost of a case of beer, by not paying their dues under Beck laws, and RTW laws.....

From what I understand, many Locals do not have the funds to push a grievance to arbitration,....or to even afford the cost of losing a grievance.
Due to that lack of....dues money,.....grievances don't get processed, arbitration doesn't go forward.....

Our problems start at the top,......Don't cut the Union off at it's knees........Give it a..."haircut"...at the top......

 

[SAC75]

Once again,.....anyone know if Panther trucks have cameras?

If they don't,..........I would think the Teamsters could file some sort of discriminatory charge with the NLRB.....

And......if they hurry up and ....install or require cameras in Panther trucks.......I'll bet Dollars to Doughnuts...ArcBest will suddenly have an "employment" problem at Panther.......

I might be wrong but I think panther is all owner operator/lease drivers. These fleet owners/owner operators can buy their insurance from whoever they want. So panther doesn’t necessarily benefit by having cameras with these drivers.

 

[joes bar and grill]

I might be wrong but I think panther is all owner operator/lease drivers. These fleet owners/owner operators can buy their insurance from whoever they want. So panther doesn’t necessarily benefit by having cameras with these drivers.

Trucking liability is the carriers (Panther) responsibility.

 

[SAC75]

Trucking liability is the carriers (Panther) responsibility.

That might be but you cannot force another company to put equipment into their truck. Many of which have their own authority and don’t use fedex’s logs. Our own paid transportation are not regulated by ABF for example.
Edit
Sorry, was using FedEx ground as an example. We don’t have a whole lot of panther in our area so I really don’t know.

 

[iam4us]

Once again,.....anyone know if Panther trucks have cameras?

If they don't,..........I would think the Teamsters could file some sort of discriminatory charge with the NLRB.....

And......if they hurry up and ....install or require cameras in Panther trucks.......I'll bet Dollars to Doughnuts...ArcBest will suddenly have an "employment" problem at Panther.......




I'll agree with you about younger progressive leaders,......Under Fair Share, I think....(not sure..).....that you can deny the portion of your dues that go to the International.
Don't de-fund your Local......Many Locals ...especially in the South,....are suffering because many members can save the cost of a case of beer, by not paying their dues under Beck laws, and RTW laws.....

From what I understand, many Locals do not have the funds to push a grievance to arbitration,....or to even afford the cost of losing a grievance.
Due to that lack of....dues money,.....grievances don't get processed, arbitration doesn't go forward.....

Our problems start at the top,......Don't cut the Union off at it's knees........Give it a..."haircut"...at the top......

excellent reply. im just blowing off steam, appreciate our stand, rights, etc.. but man we need change..I fully believe we send message from the locals on up. accountability starts at home.

 

[joes bar and grill]

That might be but you cannot force another company to put equipment into their truck. Many of which have their own authority and don’t use fedex’s logs. Our own paid transportation are not regulated by ABF for example.
Edit
Sorry, was using FedEx ground as an example. We don’t have a whole lot of panther in our area so I really don’t know.

Sure you can Schneider has a clause in their lease that you have to have a certain model CMI system installed to lease on, if operating under your own authority the customer just has to make it part of the agreement, much like real time tracking.

 

[SAC75]

Sure you can Schneider has a clause in their lease that you have to have a certain model CMI system installed to lease on, if operating under your own authority the customer just has to make it part of the agreement, much like real time tracking.

Well to add to your point you have to have a white truck to work for FedEx ground too so ya, you’re probably rite.

 

[slopway]

The union should demand that if cameras are in trucks every dispatcher up through management all the way to president must have cam and mics on in their offices and company cars 24 hours a day . I mean they say it's nothing to worry about. So why would they disagree with doing it. Drivers should not be singled out.

 

[joes bar and grill]

D

The union should demand that if cameras are in trucks every dispatcher up through management all the way to president must have cam and mics on in their offices and company cars 24 hours a day . I mean they say it's nothing to worry about. So why would they disagree with doing it. Drivers should not be singled out.

don't a lot of the offices already have security cameras?

 

[slopway]

A camera facing a whole room of office workers is different than each office having a camera in managements face and recording them. You don't feel violated if its just facing a room full of people. Facing directly to you all day that anyone can watch the manager and listen what he says is different. Like his calls to wife or talking bad about other employees. Or seeing him play solitaire