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ABF | First paragraph tells you how bad it is. 87 year old as a "new" employee!

Triplex said:
Seventy may be the new sixty, eighty may be the new seventy, but 85 is still pretty old to work in America. Yet, in some ways, it is the era of the very-old-worker in America.

America’s trucker shortage could undermine economy
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That is what the June's job report says. America had an increase of 213,000 jobs in June with Transportation/warehousing adding the least jobs except for retail which lost jobs. More older Americans are going back to work (speculating) because of wage increases.
 
canaryinthemine said:
You CAN outlive your 401(k)!

And this is the.....filthy, lousy "choice" that's left to this guy............

Special place in Hell for the corporate 401(k) "salesman" who told you that you'll be a..."millionaire".....
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401(k)s work, but you have to put money into them while you're working. I rolled mine over into an IRA when I retired. My money manager estimates I have enough to last 'til I'm 98 years old.
 
snaildriver said:
401(k)s work, but you have to put money into them while you're working. I rolled mine over into an IRA when I retired. My money manager estimates I have enough to last 'til I'm 98 years old.
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Smart move!!! An IRA is much better than a 401k. You have more control and the fees (on most) 401k are higher
 
snaildriver said:
401(k)s work, but you have to put money into them while you're working. I rolled mine over into an IRA when I retired. My money manager estimates I have enough to last 'til I'm 98 years old.
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And I fervently hope you do, Brother.


But, if you look at the demographics.........anybody’s demographics.........most people do not have near enough saved.......

Poor planning? Or, good sales pitch ?
 
Homesick said:
Smart move!!! An IRA is much better than a 401k. You have more control and the fees (on most) 401k are higher
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Not necessarily true. If the company/organization offering the 401k offers a match that's "free money" not available in an IRA. In addition, it depends on the available investment options available to you in any particular 401k and the same thing where ever you have your IRA. No easy answer, it all depends on the particular options available in each.
 
snaildriver said:
401(k)s work, but you have to put money into them while you're working. I rolled mine over into an IRA when I retired. My money manager estimates I have enough to last 'til I'm 98 years old.
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Absolutely 401k's work. Like anything else you have to do your homework when investing. I maxed out my 401k contributions when I worked at places that offered them and also usually got "free money" when my contributions were matched.
 
Triplex said:
Not necessarily true. If the company/organization offering the 401k offers a match that's "free money" not available in an IRA. In addition, it depends on the available investment options available to you in any particular 401k and the same thing where ever you have your IRA. No easy answer, it all depends on the particular options available in each.
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Triplex you are absolutely, 100% correct. But I made the assumption that when snail said he retired and rolled his 401k into an IRA he was no longer getting free money (matching) from the company........gotcha brother LOL (1st beer is on you)
 
snaildriver said:
401(k)s work, but you have to put money into them while you're working. I rolled mine over into an IRA when I retired. My money manager estimates I have enough to last 'til I'm 98 years old.
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Snail, I'm curious and asking an extremely person question (for personal and to help other people) in round, nonspecific numbers, approximately how much do you have and what is your money management estimated rate of return?
 
Homesick said:
Snail, I'm curious and asking an extremely person question (for personal and to help other people) in round, nonspecific numbers, approximately how much do you have and what is your money management estimated rate of return?
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You forgot the most important question. Because if he's 97, this is not impressive at all. Haha
 
Triplex said:
Not necessarily true. If the company/organization offering the 401k offers a match that's "free money" not available in an IRA. In addition, it depends on the available investment options available to you in any particular 401k and the same thing where ever you have your IRA. No easy answer, it all depends on the particular options available in each.
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Also the yearly amount you can put in is vastly different between 401k and Roth or standard
IRA. For Roth and standard IRA in 2018 $5,500 if under 50 years old and $6,500 if over 50

For 401k $18,500 and $24,500 if you're over 50.
 
icuicp said:
Also the yearly amount you can put in is vastly different between 401k and Roth or standard
IRA. For Roth and standard IRA in 2018 $5,500 if under 50 years old and $6,500 if over 50

For 401k $18,500 and $24,500 if you're over 50.
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That is very true but it is an extraordinary truck driver whose salary is high enough to afford to put $18,500 (under 50) and $24,500 (after 50) into any type of retirement.
 
The problem with 401(k)'s as a sole retirement vehicle is the historical cyclical up and down of the market.
And the fact that most young families are more worried about paying the bills as opposed to maxing out their contributions.
Defined-benefit pensions were the way to go....until Wall Street declared war on them.

There's going to be a whole generation coming up whose main worry will be running out of money before both spouses die.

Hopefully the next Congress will decide it's critically important to fund Social Security, instead of privatizing it. It might be the only thing left for many people.
 
canaryinthemine said:
The problem with 401(k)'s as a sole retirement vehicle is the historical cyclical up and down of the market.
And the fact that most young families are more worried about paying the bills as opposed to maxing out their contributions.
Defined-benefit pensions were the way to go....until Wall Street declared war on them.

There's going to be a whole generation coming up whose main worry will be running out of money before both spouses die.

Hopefully the next Congress will decide it's critically important to fund Social Security, instead of privatizing it. It might be the only thing left for many people.
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Canary, where do you think pension funds invest their money? They are in the market as well. Over the long term investing in the market, even in an index fund, has outperformed most all other venues.

Defined benefit retirement accounts were great till the chickens came home to roost with so many of them. Cash in hand - in a 401k for instance - can be better than a promise which can be broken wouldn't you say?
 
Triplex said:
Canary, where do you think pension funds invest their money? They are in the market as well. Over the long term investing in the market, even in an index fund, has outperformed most all other venues.

Defined benefit retirement accounts were great till the chickens came home to roost with so many of them. Cash in hand - in a 401k for instance - can be better than a promise which can be broken wouldn't you say?
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Also , inside of 401k plans and Roth and regular IRAs , you can choose where your money is invested. It doesn't have to go into stocks necessarily. Depending on the plan's administrator and your company , you can have a wealth of choices outside of the stock market.
 
icuicp said:
Also , inside of 401k plans and Roth and regular IRAs , you can choose where your money is invested. It doesn't have to go into stocks necessarily. Depending on the plan's administrator and your company , you can have a wealth of choices outside of the stock market.
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Absolutely correct! :1036316054:
 
canaryinthemine said:
The problem with 401(k)'s as a sole retirement vehicle is the historical cyclical up and down of the market.
And the fact that most young families are more worried about paying the bills as opposed to maxing out their contributions.
Defined-benefit pensions were the way to go....until Wall Street declared war on them.

There's going to be a whole generation coming up whose main worry will be running out of money before both spouses die.

Hopefully the next Congress will decide it's critically important to fund Social Security, instead of privatizing it. It might be the only thing left for many people.
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Brother Canary, I don’t want to jump on the bandwagon but I'm curious about where you think the money comes from to pay for the Defined Benefit Pension Plan? Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that payment part of your salary? If my theory is correct, then the main difference between a Defined Benefits Pension Plan and a Personal Retirement Account is choice. In one instance your money is taken from you and the other you choose what to do with your money (personal responsibility).
 
Homesick said:
Brother Canary, I don’t want to jump on the bandwagon but I'm curious about where you think the money comes from to pay for the Defined Benefit Pension Plan? Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that payment part of your salary? If my theory is correct, then the main difference between a Defined Benefits Pension Plan and a Personal Retirement Account is choice. In one instance your money is taken from you and the other you choose what to do with your money (personal responsibility).
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Of course the money is invested in index funds.......It's done by professional investing firms that usually are contracted to the Pension funds based on their performance.
The Individual risk,..........and, mind you,...as I said above, the funds are invested by performance-based professionals,.........is spread out over the participants of the entire fund. Very low risk for an individual,....as opposed to someone blundering about the stock market,...convinced he's another Warren Buffet.......

I've had a 401(k) since 1994,......Prior to that , I had the remains of an ESOP from Ryder Systems. Watching the ups and downs of the market over a 25 year period,.....I'm glad I wasn't counting on solely retiring on a combination of 401(k) and Social Security.

Can you explain to me, Brother,....as to why the traditional annuity rate of 5% was lowered to 3.5% during a bull market roughly about 3 years ago? I know that all of the annuity issuers are private entities, unanswerable to any Government agency as far as how they profit,.........but that simple cut in the annuity rate directly impacted anyone trying to retire on a defined-contribution pension,......pushing back most retirements by at least 5 years ...to achieve the same goal.

Since a majority of private employers have converted to defined-contribution plans as their sole retirement vehicle,.....why hasn't a Government entity established a locked-in annuity rate? ( I know the answer.....private enterprise vs. Gov't regulation,...and the driving principle behind most business transactions: "Let the Buyer Beware....").....

You are absolutely correct in saying our pension payments are part of our wage package. Imagine how terrible it would be if your employer said you would have to rebate back part of your paycheck after you earned it......Long after you earned it.......41 years, in my case....

I think if someone had told me that 41 years ago,...I'd have tried a different occupation.

I have my own opinion ,...that the people who run Wall Street.(..and any other investment scheme..)...do not like the collective power of a defined-benefit pension fund......They much prefer that each individual has their own little pile of money,.....and therefore not much clout on the economic market. If something goes wrong with that little pile,......like an economic downturn, where you lose half of your 401(k) value just prior to retirement,........well,...Tough Luck. Let The Buyer Beware.....There is NO government regulation or entity to re-coup or protect you....

Helluva way to run a national retirement program, don't you think? Especially in a physical labor job,....where the coin you spent was your well-being and strength..........

Social Security invests in..........what? Bonds? open market stocks? What keeps that afloat? Pyramid Scheme? Why haven't we,....as a nation,.....required an expansion of employer payments into Social Security to the point where you can retire solely on that alone? That's a shining example of a defined-benefit pension,....that works well,..if funded properly.
No pie-in-the-sky, carrot-on-a-stick, you'll-be-a-Millionare...Just-Sign-Here.......LET THE BUYER BEWARE "investment" schemes,..........with no guarantees, no oversight, no recourse,...........

Granted,....there are some guys with the luck and discipline to be able to retire on their defined-contribution "pension"...(...BARRING market downturns..)......

But,.....A simple Internet search reveals that MOST of the "investors" in defined-contribution schemes,......don't have,...and WILL NOT have,.........a third of what they'll need in retirement......

And,.....there you have 87 year old insurance salesmen outliving their money,......and seriously considering ......TRUCKING, of all things,.....as a recourse of action to destitution.......
 
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