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It has to be so, cause RB says so

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
Yes, Medicare for all is socialism as is Social Security. All collectivism is socialist. Unions for example. The United States became the planet's largest economy by destroying every other country's ability to compete in WW2 AND by balancing capitalism and socialism. Hence, my point about the pendulum swinging.
As for Trump, he led the greatest economy the world has ever known and he and congress still refused to balance the budget. On that we agree but I will point out that only congress can authorize spending.
 

seabreeze

Not Well Known Member, 63 Year Teamster Member
Premium
Yes, Medicare for all is socialism as is Social Security. All collectivism is socialist. Unions for example. The United States became the planet's largest economy by destroying every other country's ability to compete in WW2 AND by balancing capitalism and socialism. Hence, my point about the pendulum swinging.
As for Trump, he led the greatest economy the world has ever known and he and congress still refused to balance the budget. On that we agree but I will point out that only congress can authorize spending.
Do you think you could get my wife to go along with your spending authorizing thing?
 

Hookman

Just passing thru
Premium
Patriotism and belief in The United States is admirable but misplaced. The 20th century was the American century but the 21st belongs to China. Huff and puff, stomp your feet and villainize me all you want,
So where should he put his patriotism if it's misplaced Comrade, in China? Remember they are communists & capitalism is allowed only to benefit the party ie the elite. You own nothing because they own you & will haul your azz away to get re-educated whenever they want. Slave labor upon the minority etc. When Xi Ding Ling Lick My Boots wants it, he takes it. Fight to the death or grovel for crumbs. :usa2::usa2::usa2:
 

hangbelly

Active Member
Patriotism and belief in The United States is admirable but misplaced. The 20th century was the American century but the 21st belongs to China. Huff and puff, stomp your feet and villainize me all you want, every economist knows it. The Chinese middle class is larger than the entire population of North America. China is the largest new car market on the planet. China now has a stock market and a supply and demand free market economy. 1.3 billion consumers live in China making it the largest market. The Chinese military is larger than Americas. The Chinese will take Taiwan and America and her allies will be powerless to stop them. China recently tested a hypersonic missile that we don't have and used a space based weapon to destroy an orbiting satellite.
The United States is adding to an already crushing debt and devaluing our currency through inflationary spending. Business will continue to move overseas not because of cheap labor but because of our unstable government, taxation and ever changing regulation. Long term investing in facilities and equipment requires long term stability. In America, rules, regulation and taxation change with every election. Until Americans understand that we do indeed live in a worldwide economy, we will continue to be a nation in decline. Unions are a part of that. The pendulum has swung too far and must self correct. The idea that business exists for the benefit of the worker and that profits belong to employees, that individuals are not responsible for their futures and government's job is to be our parent and caregiver is straight out of the Socialist agenda that has destroyed every country where it has been tried.
All this is true, RB. The great leveling is happening as we speak. America must be debased so that we will be compatible with the rest of the world. They call it the great reset, as though it is something we should be looking forward to... Can you imagine the brazen arrogance of these POS when they say " You will own nothing and be happy"? The 1% don't intend to participate though. They will be positioned to scoop up the wreckage at fire sale prices, while we are struggling just to survive. I fail to see the reason for your enthusiasm for this though. You just seem to be blaming organized labor for all this, when the real reasons are orders of magnitude greater and well planned out. Anyway, I do enjoy your posts. They make me think...
 
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Razorblade

Well-Known Member
All this is true, RB. The great leveling is happening as we speak. America must be debased so that we will be compatible with the rest of the world. They call it the great reset, as though it is something we should be looking forward to... Can you imagine the brazen arrogance of these POS when they say " You will own nothing and be happy"? The 1% don't intend to participate though. They will be positioned to scoop up the wreckage at fire sale prices, while we are struggling just to survive. I fail to see the reason for your entusiasm for this though. You just seem to be blaming organized labor for all this, when the real reasons are orders of magnitude greater and well planned out.
It's pretty much all labor and non-labor. It's demanding to be paid to not work. It's subsidizing childbirth with welfare. It's the basic income crowd. it's demanding $15.00 an hour just because you breath and not because you have made an effort to be employable. Yes, it's the anti-socialist who fails to recognize that organized labor unions are the definition of socialism. It's the people who blame corporations for moving overseas while demanding higher pay for their unskilled labor.
It's not enthusiasm, it's frustration that otherwise intelligent people can't see the obvious and make the changes necessary to survive and thrive. I guess that's why I sound anti-union. Expecting the Teamster business model to succeed after watching the carnage and failure of the last 40 years in trucking amazes me. I just don't get "the government needs to pay me because Halls or Preston or the Teamsters promised me." It's like wondering why the post office loses billions every year when they are operating with the same business model as 1950. It's the government that's 29 trillion in debt giving $100,000 to a theater group or a million to build a bike path on an abandoned railroad bed. The United States isn't just dying, we are committing cuiside.(Have to beat the censors)
Back to China. China holds 1.1 trillion in U.S. debt. If they chose to sell that debt at a 25% discount on the open market, our currency and economy would collapse. They can defeat us without firing a shot.
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
[QUOTE="Razorblade, post: 1710851, member: I guess that's why I sound anti-union. Expecting the Teamster business model to succeed after watching the carnage and failure of the last 40 years in trucking amazes me. I just don't get "the government needs to pay me because Halls or Preston or the Teamsters promised me." It's like wondering why the post office loses billions every year when they are operating with the same business model as 1950.
[/QUOTE]

For me it isn't about any "promise", it is more about inaction.....they saw the train wreck for years and did nothing, when they could have passed laws making changes to the funds that wouldn't have cost the taxpayers a dime...they could have divided up the the funds among the participants and been done with it..but we are left with this...both parties let this happen and the need for a bailout could have been averted...
 

Homesick

Still missing my Cricket
Yes, Medicare for all is socialism as is Social Security. All collectivism is socialist. Unions for example. The United States became the planet's largest economy by destroying every other country's ability to compete in WW2 AND by balancing capitalism and socialism. Hence, my point about the pendulum swinging.
As for Trump, he led the greatest economy the world has ever known and he and congress still refused to balance the budget. On that we agree but I will point out that only congress can authorize spending.
Just for my own curiosity, specifically how did the United States "destroying every other country's ability to compete in WW2." Are you specifically thinking of the U.S. delay in entering a war? Or that we used Lend Lease programs to support England? Or possibly we helped the wrong side? Just like a little clarification into your thinking.
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
I just don't get "the government needs to pay me because Halls or Preston or the Teamsters promised me."
If you truly feel that way, you could always donate the 30 year pension credit check you receive each month for your time at Preston and Yellow. That way, you won’t feel guilty about it. I think Hookman has posted his “Go Fund Me” account on here before. I am sure he would not mind accepting your monthly donation to remove all of the guilt you must be feeling.
:lmao::lmao::lmao:
 

Skyking68

Active Member
If you truly feel that way, you could always donate the 30 year pension credit check you receive each month for your time at Preston and Yellow. That way, you won’t feel guilty about it. I think Hookman has posted his “Go Fund Me” account on here before. I am sure he would not mind accepting your monthly donation to remove all of the guilt you must be feeling.
:lmao::lmao::lmao:
And send a check for all those health benefits
 

hangbelly

Active Member
All fair points,RB. But you conveniently forget to mention the abuses of labor that led to where we currently are. The exploitation of workers by the bosses and corporations that brought about this demand for equity and fairness in the labor market and subsequently made America the envy of the developed world. It served us well for generations of Americans since the industrial revolution made skilled labor in demand. And the tragedies of the coal miners' battles with their bosses and their overpriced company stores that made Americans aware and ashamed of what was happening and finally forced Congress to pass labor laws to halt the abuses. There would always have been a Jimmy Hoffa. He was inevitable. He just saw the outrages and decided to stop them. We all know that communism and socialism has created more human misery than it has solved. But the idea of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay is still the holy grail. And it will find equilibrium if allowed to function fairly. We are an imperfect species, RB, and the powerful will always attempt to exploit the weak. They have for thousands of years. It is ingrained in our DNA. The blight of slavery in America is still damaging this nation today. And before that it was indentured servitude. The tantalizing evil of human exploitation and subjugation is just too powerful. You mention investing to grow your wealth and not relying on wages. Wall Street is now a clown casino of insanity fed by a Federal Reserve that is destroying and debasing our currency. The average investor will not have the luxury of the milliseconds of advanced warning necessary to save themselves when this crashes. That has been rigged as well by the elite. Like you, I believe it is inevitable that America will be destroyed from within, as global markets and supply chains begin to exploit their working classes. But the problem isn't the concept of wage equity. That is impossible on a global scale to now be matched by American labor. It is corrupt and greedy politicians in league with greedy, powerful, selfish individuals without a spark of humanity in their souls but with the power to make it happen that will be our undoing. I like your reasoned comments, sir, but I see you as the purser of the USS Titanic, trying to get everyone in steerage to put down their life jackets and help rearrange the deck chairs, while the orchestra plays on.
 
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hangbelly

Active Member
Just for my own curiosity, specifically how did the United States "destroying every other country's ability to compete in WW2." Are you specifically thinking of the U.S. delay in entering a war? Or that we used Lend Lease programs to support England? Or possibly we helped the wrong side? Just like a little clarification into your thinking.
Yeah. I don't get that either. This must be a chapter of WW2 I missed.
 

hangbelly

Active Member
It's pretty much all labor and non-labor. It's demanding to be paid to not work. It's subsidizing childbirth with welfare. It's the basic income crowd. it's demanding $15.00 an hour just because you breath and not because you have made an effort to be employable. Yes, it's the anti-socialist who fails to recognize that organized labor unions are the definition of socialism. It's the people who blame corporations for moving overseas while demanding higher pay for their unskilled labor.
It's not enthusiasm, it's frustration that otherwise intelligent people can't see the obvious and make the changes necessary to survive and thrive. I guess that's why I sound anti-union. Expecting the Teamster business model to succeed after watching the carnage and failure of the last 40 years in trucking amazes me. I just don't get "the government needs to pay me because Halls or Preston or the Teamsters promised me." It's like wondering why the post office loses billions every year when they are operating with the same business model as 1950. It's the government that's 29 trillion in debt giving $100,000 to a theater group or a million to build a bike path on an abandoned railroad bed. The United States isn't just dying, we are committing cuiside.(Have to beat the censors)
Back to China. China holds 1.1 trillion in U.S. debt. If they chose to sell that debt at a 25% discount on the open market, our currency and economy would collapse. They can defeat us without firing a shot.
You see, RB, while this is true, you again don't mention the hundreds and hundreds of billions in corporate welfare, waste, fraud and abuse that has been squandered. The MIC alone has taken untold trillions of dollars. We don't even have a supersonic missile to compete with China and Russia because the lobbyists and Govt contractors were too busy milking the system to produce one. Our F-35 Flying Turkey is another example . Remember Solendra? You complain about pennies when America is hemorrhaging cash to the rich. You really need to get some balance here, brother.
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
You see, RB, while this is true, you again don't mention the hundreds and hundreds of billions in corporate welfare, waste, fraud and abuse that has been squandered. The MIC alone has taken untold trillions of dollars. We don't even have a supersonic missile to compete with China and Russia because the lobbyists and Govt contractors were too busy milking the system to produce one. Our F-35 Flying Turkey is another example . Remember Solendra? You complain about pennies when America is hemorrhaging cash to the rich. You really need to get some balance here, brother.
Absolutely! Our defense budget is a joke. Half of it is for weapons systems the military doesn't want or need and bases with no strategic value but every congressional district must have one. The United States spends more money defending Europe than the Europeans do.
Corporate welfare includes a farm bill that costs 100 billion a year. Bailouts of GM, Chrysler, the banking industry and private pension funds should never happen.
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
All fair points,RB. But you conveniently forget to mention the abuses of labor that led to where we currently are. The exploitation of workers by the bosses and corporations that brought about this demand for equity and fairness in the labor market and subsequently made America the envy of the developed world. It served us well for generations of Americans since the industrial revolution made skilled labor in demand. And the tragedies of the coal miners' battles with their bosses and their overpriced company stores that made Americans aware and ashamed of what was happening and finally forced Congress to pass labor laws to halt the abuses. There would always have been a Jimmy Hoffa. He was inevitable. He just saw the outrages and decided to stop them. We all know that communism and socialism has created more human misery than it has solved. But the idea of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay is still the holy grail.


I forgot nothing. I have written that America became the world's leading economy by learning to balance capitalism and socialism. Organized union labor is that balance. I also wrote the the pendulum has swung to far and I stand by those statements.
Where we disagree is in the definition of a "fair days work for a fair day pay". I define that as whatever it takes to get the work done by qualified people. Nowhere on these boards have I found a different definition of a fair days pay. All I see is we want more and more is never enough. I reject the idea that the job is worth more because the company makes a profit.
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
If you truly feel that way, you could always donate the 30 year pension credit check you receive each month for your time at Preston and Yellow. That way, you won’t feel guilty about it. I think Hookman has posted his “Go Fund Me” account on here before. I am sure he would not mind accepting your monthly donation to remove all of the guilt you must be feeling.
:lmao::lmao::lmao:
Could you try just once to address the issue. I don't expect the government to bail out the pension funds. The pension funds should be allowed to fail and go broke. When there is no more money, my checks will stop coming. It's not up to the taxpayer, whose average income is less than my full pension to bailout the Teamster funds. The bailouts of GM, Chrysler and the banks should have never happened. The Teamsters should suspend all contractual payments to the pension funds and replace them with a decent 401K plan with investment choices that belong to the employee. The funds can then adjust payouts, spend down whatever money they have and just go away. The IBT has given up on pension funds. The YRC contract is proof of that. Your union has abandoned you. Unionized freight is on life support.
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
Just for my own curiosity, specifically how did the United States "destroying every other country's ability to compete in WW2." Are you specifically thinking of the U.S. delay in entering a war? Or that we used Lend Lease programs to support England? Or possibly we helped the wrong side? Just like a little clarification into your thinking.
Are you kidding? at the end of the war, only the United States has a viable manufacturing base.
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Razorblade, post: 1710851, member: I guess that's why I sound anti-union. Expecting the Teamster business model to succeed after watching the carnage and failure of the last 40 years in trucking amazes me. I just don't get "the government needs to pay me because Halls or Preston or the Teamsters promised me." It's like wondering why the post office loses billions every year when they are operating with the same business model as 1950. I
For me it isn't about any "promise", it is more about inaction.....they saw the train wreck for years and did nothing, when they could have passed laws making changes to the funds that wouldn't have cost the taxpayers a dime...they could have divided up the the funds among the participants and been done with it..but we are left with this...both parties let this happen and the need for a bailout could have been averted...
[/QUOTE]

They coulda. shoulda, woulda!
How about those who were among the highest paid blue collar employees in the country. What coulda, shoulda, woulda was their responsibility.
There is no need for a bailout now.
 
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