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ABF | It has to be so, cause RB says so

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
I also don't get it when management, including the management of labor resources, gets no credit for the success of ABF. How is it that the disaster called YRC is all the fault of management with no responsibility accepted by the union workforce but a very successful ABF gets no respect from union labor for being exceptionally well run?
I would like you to find me a quote where anyone said the management of ABF isn't decent.....I don't mean local management but the big players in the company...I can definitely tell you that you won't find one from me....but with all the managerial skills of our team they don't mean anything without the thousands of union labor doing the actual physical work....my main gripe with upper management is the constant surveillance of drivers (which is their right), but no worry about what the people they have hired to run local terminals are doing....I think they would be surprised at things that go on at some of the terminals...
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
I would like you to find me a quote where anyone said the management of ABF isn't decent.....I don't mean local management but the big players in the company...I can definitely tell you that you won't find one from me....but with all the managerial skills of our team they don't mean anything without the thousands of union labor doing the actual physical work....my main gripe with upper management is the constant surveillance of drivers (which is their right), but no worry about what the people they have hired to run local terminals are doing....I think they would be surprised at things that go on at some of the terminals...
Decent? You brag about the operating ratio at ABF but management is only decent. I assume decent means less than average. Imagine what ABF could do with your definition of good management. The job of management is scheduling, supervising and holding the labor force accountable. If the thousands of union labor at ABF are better at their jobs than the thousands at YRC, it's because management is doing their job. 30 years in trucking and I never met a driver who didn't know more about managing than the managers.
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
Decent? You brag about the operating ratio at ABF but management is only decent. I assume decent means less than average. Imagine what ABF could do with your definition of good management. The job of management is scheduling, supervising and holding the labor force accountable. If the thousands of union labor at ABF are better at their jobs than the thousands at YRC, it's because management is doing their job. 30 years in trucking and I never met a driver who didn't know more about managing than the managers.
I think you better get out a dictionary... decent is not less than average....synonyms of decent are respectable, upstanding, appropriate, and satisfactory.....sorry I can't drool over them like you want me to, but I have my reason.... https://www.ttnews.com/articles/teamsters-criticize-yrcs-offer-buy-abf that was a crappy way to get a contract passed and I for one will never forget it..
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
Condo living, nothing like it. No lawncare, no weeds, trees and shrubs trimmed and leaves removed in the fall. No snow plowing. A two inch snowfall automatically triggers the snow removal company. New driveway last year. 3300 square feet, finished walkout basement with patio. 2 1/2 car heated garage. Above the patio is a deck overlooking a small, one acre lake, with a fountain of course. Nothing beyond my inside walls is my responsibility.
Heather, from Molly Maids, shows up every Thursday to clean and do laundry.
Stephanie, the mobile groomer, comes every month to bath and trim the two dogs.
Life is good.
Does your place come with a bunch of pretentious neighbors or are you the only one?
 

seabreeze

Not Well Known Member, 63 Year Teamster Member
Premium
Condo living, nothing like it. No lawncare, no weeds, trees and shrubs trimmed and leaves removed in the fall. No snow plowing. A two inch snowfall automatically triggers the snow removal company. New driveway last year. 3300 square feet, finished walkout basement with patio. 2 1/2 car heated garage. Above the patio is a deck overlooking a small, one acre lake, with a fountain of course. Nothing beyond my inside walls is my responsibility.
Heather, from Molly Maids, shows up every Thursday to clean and do laundry.
Stephanie, the mobile groomer, comes every month to bath and trim the two dogs.
Life is good.
I'll agree there's nothing like it, I doubt your HOA would allow my boat, tractor, and equipment in your neighborhood.
I did cut grass and trim shrubs today.
No snowplowing here, we have snow about every 8 or 10 yrs.
No heated garage, we park under our small 2200' house on pilings.
My deck and dock is larger than your patio,
my lake is a lot larger than yours, it's called the Atlantic Ocean.
I'm sure mama would frown on Heather coming in and doing her cleaning and laundry.
I don't think Stephanie would have much luck grooming our deer and wild turkeys in our yard.
I'm glad your condo life is good, I wouldn't trade with you for love or money.
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
I have made a vow to be kinder, gentler and less confrontational. However, I don't understand that attitude.
I get that the labor movement's beginnings were, in part, to give the front line worker a return on his investment of time and talent. Time and talent being as important as capital investing but with less risk. The question is how much is the job worth? That, in my view, is a question answered by the labor marketplace. ABF is paying double time because that is what it takes to get the job done. They don't pay double because they want to. They don't pay double because they have been extorted to do so. They pay double because that is what the free market requires to get the job done. They pay hiring bonuses because the labor market requires them to do so in order to hire qualified people.
I also don't get it when management, including the management of labor resources, gets no credit for the success of ABF. How is it that the disaster called YRC is all the fault of management with no responsibility accepted by the union workforce but a very successful ABF gets no respect from union labor for being exceptionally well run?
Maybe you should re-read post #53 genius. That is the one where I gave credit to ABF management for trying new ideas and making them work and being very profitable doing so in many cases. Did you think I was saying that I or any other union employee came up with the idea for U-Pak, ReloCube, or the Mobile Platforms? I wish I had. We would not be having this discussion if any one of those ideas were mine as I would be rich and retired right now. Next time, maybe you should read before throwing out false accusations there Blade.
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
If the thousands of union labor at ABF are better at their jobs than the thousands at YRC, it's because management is doing their job.
Where do you come up with this crap? Who on here ever said that union labor at ABF is better at doing their jobs than union labor at YRC? ABF would give their left nut to get experienced labor from the YRC companies to come to work for them. Even our branch manager here at the Rock has approached me on more than one occasion to find out if I know of any YRC employees that might be interested in coming to work for ABF. They do just as good of a job as any ABF employee does. They are behind the 8-ball though with all of the debt brought on by Zollars buying spree using borrowed money at high interest rates that all but killed multiple, well managed union freight companies. That should help answer your question in post #69. Zollars and his team of henchmen is the reason the YRC companies are in the shape they are today.
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
Where do you come up with this crap? Who on here ever said that union labor at ABF is better at doing their jobs than union labor at YRC? ABF would give their left nut to get experienced labor from the YRC companies to come to work for them. Even our branch manager here at the Rock has approached me on more than one occasion to find out if I know of any YRC employees that might be interested in coming to work for ABF. They do just as good of a job as any ABF employee does. They are behind the 8-ball though with all of the debt brought on by Zollars buying spree using borrowed money at high interest rates that all but killed multiple, well managed union freight companies. That should help answer your question in post #69. Zollars and his team of henchmen is the reason the YRC companies are in the shape they are today.
EXACTLY RIGHT! Labor is all the same. It's the difference between poor management and excellent management. Labor utilization in an industry where labor is by far the largest operating expense, is the only way to be profitable and that is management. Why do you and your brothers refuse to admit that it's ABF management that has made your company the union carrier superstar? "Decent" management?, satisfactory?, no ABF has exceptional management. You just can't bring yourself to admit it can you?
It's the old us against them mentality that will not work in the 21st century. I wrote before about the union mindset of more is better and more is never enough that will kill ABF. I was right then and I'm right now. Profit is not a four letter word. The job is not worth more just because a company is profitable. Buy the company if you want a share of the profits. The stock is for sale every day.
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
EXACTLY RIGHT! Labor is all the same. It's the difference between poor management and excellent management. Labor utilization in an industry where labor is by far the largest operating expense, is the only way to be profitable and that is management. Why do you and your brothers refuse to admit that it's ABF management that has made your company the union carrier superstar? "Decent" management?, satisfactory?, no ABF has exceptional management. You just can't bring yourself to admit it can you? It's the old us against them mentality that will not work in the 21st century. I wrote before about the union mindset of more is better and more is never enough that will kill ABF. I was right then and I'm right now. Profit is not a four letter word. The job is not worth more just because a company is profitable. Buy the company if you want a share of the profits. The stock is for sale every day.
So then you are saying that ABF was/is better managed than Preston and all the other LTL carriers that went out of business due to deregulation. That has got to be the dumbest statement you have made to date. And no one here has said that ABF is the “union carrier superstar”. Had YRC actually bought us out back in 2013, we would be in the same boat that the other YRC companies are today. I still have a hard time understanding why you worked union jobs for thirty years when it so obvious that you wanted to be management. I will bet a lot of your former co-workers would have some horror stories to tell about the union representation you provided them back in day. So why did you not get into management at Preston or Yellow back in the day instead throwing your co-workers under the bus as a steward, organizer, and official of the union as you claim you were. You were obviously never a true Teamster, just a company man with a Teamster card.
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
EXACTLY RIGHT! Labor is all the same. It's the difference between poor management and excellent management. Labor utilization in an industry where labor is by far the largest operating expense, is the only way to be profitable and that is management. Why do you and your brothers refuse to admit that it's ABF management that has made your company the union carrier superstar? "Decent" management?, satisfactory?, no ABF has exceptional management. You just can't bring yourself to admit it can you?
It's the old us against them mentality that will not work in the 21st century. I wrote before about the union mindset of more is better and more is never enough that will kill ABF. I was right then and I'm right now. Profit is not a four letter word. The job is not worth more just because a company is profitable. Buy the company if you want a share of the profits. The stock is for sale every day.
So let me school you on something Blade...you say that labor deserves nothing from a profitable company because they are "doing their job"....so the same can be said for management, they are employees just like me...they aren't owners and they have no skin in the game...just like me...but you have no problem with them getting more and more, even though they are "just doing their job"...after all no CEO or President gets hired to fail or not perform....they get shown the door for bad performance....just like me....that is what is great about collective bargaining....you call it extortion...I call it leveling the playing field.....and on another note...I can't say ABF Management is exceptional because they are not.. if you want me to say they make very good decisions on business I can say yes to that...but exceptional would include integrity...and the timing of the yrc buying abf announcement is what blows it for me....
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
I can't say ABF Management is exceptional because they are not.. if you want me to say they make very good decisions on business I can say yes to that...but exceptional would include integrity...and the timing of the yrc buying abf announcement is what blows it for me....
Not to mention ABF filing a law suit against the Teamsters back in 2010 because the membership voted down concessions that the company wanted. The judge ruled against ABF three different times on this issue. Then, around 2012, ABF puts Roy Slagle in charge. He was the one mailing out the “the sky is falling” flyers to our homes hoping to get our wives to push us into voting yes for the 2013 contract cuts. So, I agree with ABF381 on this. Integrity is a big part of good or “exceptional” management. And past management has shown us that integrity was something they did not have.
 

GO40

Well-Known Member
So let me school you on something Blade...you say that labor deserves nothing from a profitable company because they are "doing their job"....so the same can be said for management, they are employees just like me...they aren't owners and they have no skin in the game...just like me...but you have no problem with them getting more and more, even though they are "just doing their job"...after all no CEO or President gets hired to fail or not perform....they get shown the door for bad performance....just like me....that is what is great about collective bargaining....you call it extortion...I call it leveling the playing field.....and on another note...I can't say ABF Management is exceptional because they are not.. if you want me to say they make very good decisions on business I can say yes to that...but exceptional would include integrity...and the timing of the yrc buying abf announcement is what blows it for me....
We should move this thread from page 3 to the ABF board & rename it because it turned into mostly a abf argument….
 

Razorblade

Well-Known Member
So then you are saying that ABF was/is better managed than Preston and all the other LTL carriers that went out of business due to deregulation. That has got to be the dumbest statement you have made to date. And no one here has said that ABF is the “union carrier superstar”.


That is absolutely what I am saying. The playing field was level. Deregulation had the same rules for everyone. The basic evolutionary standard is adapt or die. Survival of the fittest is exactly what happened to the 600+ failures. ABF has adapted to deregulation since the 80s and they continue to do so every day. That is superior management of resources. ABF is the only viable union carrier still standing so, yes, they are the superstar.
Management is not "an employee just like me". Management personnel must prove their worth every minute of every day. They have no grievance procedure. They can easily be replaced if they underperform.
Why did I never take a management job at Preston? I was offered West Middlesex linehaul manager twice as well as safety supervisor and regional human resources director. I turned them all down because I never knew if the offers were a recognition of my talents and abilities or a way to get rid of me.
BTW: The day after Preston closed the doors, Yellow in Cleveland hired 50 Preston linehaul drivers. Why do you think Yellow would hire a 50 year old with 21 years in Teamster leadership? Not only did they hire me, I was the first of the 50 to punch in. The leadership of locals 261 and 249 respected me enough to make that happen. I must have been a very good steward.
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
1. Management personnel must prove their worth every minute of every day. They have no grievance procedure. They can easily be replaced if they underperform.
2. Why did I never take a management job at Preston? I was offered West Middlesex linehaul manager twice as well as safety supervisor and regional human resources director. I turned them all down because I never knew if the offers were a recognition of my talents and abilities or a way to get rid of me.
3.BTW: The day after Preston closed the doors, Yellow in Cleveland hired 50 Preston linehaul drivers. Why do you think Yellow would hire a 50 year old with 21 years in Teamster leadership? Not only did they hire me, I was the first of the 50 to punch in. The leadership of locals 261 and 249 respected me enough to make that happen. I must have been a very good steward.
1. That is a joke right there. Non union jobs don't have grievance procedures either. I don't see mass firings at non union jobs. Plus they have nice buyouts in their contracts to soften the blow.
2. I doubt they were trying to get rid of you. You have never said one thing on here that would make me believe that any union company would fear you, and 50 isn't old, especially for a line haul job.
3. Like I said nothing to fear, I'm sure you helped the company out a lot with the grievance process. You were the best steward Preston ever had...
 
ABF has a lot of older employees. When these employees retire, ABF is going to be in a bind. All that experience and willingness to work will go with them, And most of the younger People in Management and touch labor positions are not able or willing to fill the void left by these older workers. This will be ABF's undoing
 
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