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ABF | Money in the bank

[/quote]


Because you guys aren't reading my reason for voting yes. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ABF'S REASONS!!!!! I MADE MY CHOICE BECAUSE OF WHERE I BELIEVE THE ECONOMY IS HEADING!!!!! READ MY POSTS AGAIN!!!!!!!

And by the, I could care less about the Teamsters anymore. They lost me when they back Obama, of Hoffa Jr showed just how socialist he and the Teamsters really are. The Teamsters and other unions are not they used to be as far as principle and morals. They have none anymore.
[/quote]

Stoney, I find this post quite humerous. You say the teamsters are socialist, but YOUR VOTE is socialist. You are Voting to give up 15% of EVERYONES pay to help the "needy" company!!!! The non-socialist thing to do is let every one that wants to help the company give back thier wages, but let us capitalist keep what the contract guarnteed us. Many "oldtimers" as you called them have had enough backbone to stand up to the company and go out on strike to afford us the contract wages we now have. I'll be danged if I vote to undo what my own dad and other oldtimers have done for YOU and me.
 
You have to remember shineyside up that stoney wants the old timers out of here!This is his direct quote "And I'm hoping the 15% finally pushes out these old timers who can retire to finally retire." Is this the real reason that he voted yes? Inquiring minds want to know!
It also makes you wonder what he really thinks of the Teamsters of the past!
 
[quote author=shineysideup link=topic=80004.msg830607#msg830607 date=1274101733]




Stoney, I find this post quite humerous. You say the teamsters are socialist, but YOUR VOTE is socialist. You are Voting to give up 15% of EVERYONES pay to help the "needy" company!!!! The non-socialist thing to do is let every one that wants to help the company give back thier wages, but let us capitalist keep what the contract guarnteed us. Many "oldtimers" as you called them have had enough backbone to stand up to the company and go out on strike to afford us the contract wages we now have. I'll be danged if I vote to undo what my own dad and other oldtimers have done for YOU and me.
[/quote]




Socialism is the government ownership of private industry. This concession is a negotiation between to private sector entities. Nice try, but your wrong.
 
[quote author=JustAWorkingMan link=topic=80004.msg830616#msg830616 date=1274103335]
You have to remember shineyside up that stoney wants the old timers out of here!This is his direct quote "And I'm hoping the 15% finally pushes out these old timers who can retire to finally retire." Is this the real reason that he voted yes? Inquiring minds want to know!
It also makes you wonder what he really thinks of the Teamsters of the past!
[/quote]






The Teamtsers past for the most part was good. Today they lost there morals and values. Stop living in the past.
 
Hey :buttkisser: Stoney, the teamsters are not as strong as they were years ago because we have people like you as members. Listen Stoney, you don't know what the future economy will be like in the next 3 years. We need Tyson and Abf to come up with another plan. We need to take this one year at a time by voting each year. Not by some company plan snapback. We need to be the judge (NOT THE TEAMSTER HEADS OR ABF) as to wether we want the cut back should be extented. Do you get it NOW. All you meatheads who vote or voted "YES" for this are the reason why the unions are not strong. You yes voters are letting the teamster heads and Abf make the call. NO PEOPLE WE NEED TO MAKE THE CALL.
Do you understand now where your wrong? I can't wait to hear your responses or excuses again.
 
[quote author=18Wheeler link=topic=80004.msg830650#msg830650 date=1274109085]
Hey :buttkisser: Stoney, the teamsters are not as strong as they were years ago because we have people like you as members. Listen Stoney, you don't know what the future economy will be like in the next 3 years. We need Tyson and Abf to come up with another plan. We need to take this one year at a time by voting each year. Not by some company plan snapback. We need to be the judge (NOT THE TEAMSTER HEADS OR ABF) as to wether we want the cut back should be extented. Do you get it NOW. All you meatheads who vote or voted "YES" for this are the reason why the unions are not strong. You yes voters are letting the teamster heads and Abf make the call. NO PEOPLE WE NEED TO MAKE THE CALL.
Do you understand now where your wrong? I can't wait to hear your responses or excuses again.
[/quote]




I thought you were done with me? :biglaugh: But your right, I don't know what the economy will do in the next 3 years. I don't have a crystal ball. But I do see our current President on Congress take us down the same path of Greece. I do see our current President wanting Cap and Trade witch will just kill our manufacturing base and most blue collar jobs And it will skyrocket energy rates on you and I. I see the US dollar is worthless right now, energy prices already up.

Like I said before, I look at trends. And the trend for our economy doesn't look good. Now I do believe we will pull out of this. I see the tide turning in 3 or 4 years. But I think its going to get worst before it gets better. And I want to do everything I can to help ABF pull through the next 3 or 4 years.

Now if I'm wrong about the economy. Than I"m wrong, and I'll own up to it. But I'd rather vote yes and be wrong and lose 15% now, than right vote no, be right about the economy and lose 100% in a couple years.
 
Stoney we may have the same thoughts about our president. My point again is we need to be in charge no one else. Like I said, my plan will be able to react to the future problems if any and the key is if any problems. You have it in your head the worse case. That's where I have the problem. Lets see if the cutbacks are needed in a year. You and alot of other people need to start taking control of your union and company. They have to much power right now and it is this voting yes that makes them stronger. Quit relying on the union/company to act in your best interes because they are not looking out for you. They are looking out for themselves. The union members need to take back their union. It is not a one glove fits all approach. I hope to god you dont beleive that their will any snapback.
 
Stoney, dont worry about what some of these so called " working men" say. They remind me of the type of men that think everybody should think the exacat same way they do, if you dont then you are just brainwashed or just completely stupid. You might as well not even post anything on here again because certain people are just trying to bully others with their posts. You come on here to voice your opinion and according to some people it's wrong!
Well I agree with you Stoney, and I also stand by my No vote.
 
[quote author=woodennose link=topic=80004.msg830670#msg830670 date=1274113916]
I mean Yes Vote.
[/quote]


:biglaugh:........Thanks...........
 
Woodennose, do you have a better solution than mine (taking a year at a time)? Or is the one appointed by the company and teamster heads your best solution? It's not brainwashing, its called thinking for yourself. I would love to hear your solution but if the best you can come up with is what's on the table your another robot in society. Your are part of the dumbing down of America. I'm telling you to think for yourself, take control, and don't let others take advantage of you. So, what's your great plan Stoney or Woodenose?
 
[quote author=18Wheeler link=topic=80004.msg830676#msg830676 date=1274115066]
Woodennose, do you have a better solution than mine (taking a year at a time)? Or is the one appointed by the company and teamster heads your best solution? It's not brainwashing, its called thinking for yourself. I would love to hear your solution but if the best you can come up with is what's on the table your another robot in society. Your are part of the dumbing down of America. I'm telling you to think for yourself, take control, and don't let others take advantage of you. So, what's your great plan Stoney or Woodenose?
[/quote]



See that's the arrogant rhetoric we're talking about. Why does a yes vote mean we were brainwashed? Could it be that we're thinking for our selves too? We just have a difference of opinion from the one you will or have voted no.

I'm not speaking for Woodenose. But how can I be brainwashed by ABF if the reason I voted yes is completely different.
 
Stoney, my problem is why your accepting this plan until 2013? I'll ask again, do you have an alternate solution? Did you even try to think of one? If you haven't that's where the dumbing down comes from, just accepting what is told to you. The brainwash part comes in if you think the company will not try to take advantage of you if possible. Do you think they are going to be as honest to as your parents? If you think the company is totally up front with you, you are nieve my friend.

So, I'll ask you and your friend woodennose for the third time. Do you have an alternate or any ideas for a better solution?
 
[quote author=18Wheeler link=topic=80004.msg830683#msg830683 date=1274116147]
Stoney, my problem is why your accepting this plan until 2013? I'll ask again, do you have an alternate solution? Did you even try to think of one? If you haven't that's where the dumbing down comes from, just accepting what is told to you. The brainwash part comes in if you think the company will not try to take advantage of you if possible. Do you think they are going to be as honest to as your parents? If you think the company is totally up front with you, you are nieve my friend.

So, I'll ask you and your friend woodennose for the third time. Do you have an alternate or any ideas for a better solution?
[/quote]


Off course ABF would take advantage of us when they can. Their main concern is profit. I understand that fact, and I'm OK with that. And right now they have no profit. So they are taking advantage of the bad economy, the YRC concessions deal to get our wages lowered.

But here's the deal. I don't think ABF will survive without a concessions. I'd rather take a 15% cut for 3 years, get my employer profitable again. And if they make a profit as soon as 2011, then GOOD!!!! I'd feel better about my job if I knew they were profiting again.

Now you ask if we had a better solution. Maybe we do, maybe we don't. But who's going listen us? ABF? Teamsters? :biglaugh:.....I don't thank so.

Now I agree with the concessions. Its not near as bad as what YRC got. ABF is still paying into the pension and Health & Welfare. Last year I made $68,000. After the cut I would make only $58,000. How many of 10% unemployed in this country would kill for our problem?


Now go ahead keep on insulting us yes votes. Calling us brainwashed and dumb. Either way, your not going to change our mind with that kind of rhetoric. By the way, I'm a 3rd generation Teamster. My granddad retire from Yellow in 1981. My father retired from Roadway in 06 after 32 years with them. I worked for Big R before coming here to ABF in 05. I have consulted my dad about the concessions. I showed him everything ABF and the union had shown me about the concessions. And he agrees with voting yes. And no I haven't asked my grandpa, he's 94 years old now, and sadly he mind is not as sharp as it used to be.

What I'm saying is I didn't come to this yes vote easily.
 
[quote author=leftyblack link=topic=80004.msg828694#msg828694 date=1273533799]
[quote author=stoneyABF link=topic=80004.msg828638#msg828638 date=1273514099]
[quote author=leftyblack link=topic=80004.msg828629#msg828629 date=1273512714]

why dont you tell us what we get per hour for pension and h and w and add that to the 19 per hour after a cut and tell me that conway and fedex are still making more than us. ill laugh in your face. my neighbor drives for fedex and I know what they make and what they get in benefits.
you must count what is being paid in for benefits and salary to even have a coherent argument about the pay. just because that money isnt in your pocket doesnt mean the company isnt paying it.
there are some stewards on this board, so bring out the pension and h and w numbers.
 
[quote author=foxman042 link=topic=80004.msg830699#msg830699 date=1274120114]
[quote author=leftyblack link=topic=80004.msg828694#msg828694 date=1273533799]
[quote author=stoneyABF link=topic=80004.msg828638#msg828638 date=1273514099]
[quote author=leftyblack link=topic=80004.msg828629#msg828629 date=1273512714]

why dont you tell us what we get per hour for pension and h and w and add that to the 19 per hour after a cut and tell me that conway and fedex are still making more than us. ill laugh in your face. my neighbor drives for fedex and I know what they make and what they get in benefits.
you must count what is being paid in for benefits and salary to even have a coherent argument about the pay. just because that money isnt in your pocket doesnt mean the company isnt paying it.
there are some stewards on this board, so bring out the pension and h and w numbers.

[/quote]


Just who are you foxman??????????? If you are an 042 driver like you say,why don't you know how much our benefits exactly are? Second of all,your remark about just the stewards knowing what they are leaves me to believe that you are management.If you are an ABF driver,you would know how much we are paying!!!!!
 
[quote author=JustAWorkingMan link=topic=80004.msg830707#msg830707 date=1274123156]
[quote author=foxman042 link=topic=80004.msg830699#msg830699 date=1274120114]
[quote author=leftyblack link=topic=80004.msg828694#msg828694 date=1273533799]
[quote author=stoneyABF link=topic=80004.msg828638#msg828638 date=1273514099]
[quote author=leftyblack link=topic=80004.msg828629#msg828629 date=1273512714]

why dont you tell us what we get per hour for pension and h and w and add that to the 19 per hour after a cut and tell me that conway and fedex are still making more than us. ill laugh in your face. my neighbor drives for fedex and I know what they make and what they get in benefits.
you must count what is being paid in for benefits and salary to even have a coherent argument about the pay. just because that money isnt in your pocket doesnt mean the company isnt paying it.
there are some stewards on this board, so bring out the pension and h and w numbers.

[/quote]


Just who are you foxman??????????? If you are an 042 driver like you say,why don't you know how much our benefits exactly are? Second of all,your remark about just the stewards knowing what they are leaves me to believe that you are management.If you are an ABF driver,you would know how much we are paying!!!!!
[/quote]
I do know exactly how much we are getting for benefits. if someone else comes on this thread and gives the numbers, that is called "substantiating the facts with a credible source"which isnt done too much here on this board. it surely beats the old excuse which is "i read it on the internet so it must be true". I also
read on the internet that aliens from another planet are alive and well and dan ackroyd from ghostbusters fame was the guy who posted that one. I guess thats true as well.
i did a little informal poll after I got done with a trip and asked 10 drivers what the amount was that the company puts to our benefits.
There were 10 different answers.
so no, I dont know exactly what the numbers are. ask me some mileages from 042 to other terminals and ill probably know those pretty close. you of all people should know that if you are off by one cent you will be vilified on this boad for not knowing what you are talking about. so i ask for confirmation of the numbers from a neutral party.
i did notice that you dont refute my assertion that we would still make more then the scab outfits if you take the benefits into account.
you want to know why I think the way I do about this situation? read a dave ramsey book about being debt free and all the companies that practice such a philosophy. those companies are still around. the ones that dont are at deaths door [yrc].
plus, ive been a teamster for 21 years. my union called me and said we need to take this deal. so im voting yes. our elected representatives have negotiated this deal in our behalf and because its not what you want it to be they are all liars and cheats?
i say again: if you or anyone here has any evidence at all that the "books are cooked" or "the union got a payoff" or whatever crazy ideas are out there then you should immediately contact the US attorneys office or sec or someone to halt this vote until these allegations are cleared up.
is this a lousy deal? yes it is. could it have been worse? yes it could. but its not thanks to the union.
you know, this all doesnt matter much anyway, since the vote will be known soon and then I can quit worrying about it.
 
Well foxman, first off, this vote shouldn't even be happening! Tyson flat outright lied! On the first conference call,he said that he wouldn't even pursue any negotiations unless he had an OVERWHELMING response to negotiate.But guess what,they started the negotiations even before some of the locals even had their meetings for their input.This I can prove! Which means that this whole concession deal was all planned out even before that first conference call.
Second, when people say about cooking the books,who says that they are doing anything illegal,use you head! There's more than one way to cook the books.Abf had a whole year to make the books look worse than they actually are.If you were to actually read the SEC filings,you will be able to see what they did with some of the money.But,the IBT won't tell you and ABF sure won't! Just look at the short term investments that they had.Do you actually know anything about short term investments???? I'll tell you, it's a LEGAL way to hide money for awhile! I could keep going but it would be useless because it's obvious that you even took the time to read the SEC filings! You probably wouldn't know what you were reading anyway.Just believe what the company and Tyson tell you to believe!Did you watch the DVD? Kemp said that we had 219 million in 2008 and then went on to say that now we are no longer debt free.We have a debt 26.5 million.That makes one believe that we went from 219 million to the good and are now in debt with no money! They are not lying but are not telling the whole truth.Even by their charts.They started that steep decline in Oct. of last year. Check out Moving Solutions at the BBB and you will see when Moving Solution was created. It was just a coincidence that it was created in Oct.2009.Wasn't it??????I could go on and on but it's no use when people won't take the time to do their own research instead of listening to others. Just how do you think that the people who are voting no came to that conclusion.It sure wasn't because of what they heard from the company or the IBT. It's called research and actually watching what's going on around you!!!!!!!!!!
As for the benefits, if you really are a Teamster, look in your supplement, which you should have easy access to if it's as you say that your a teamster of 21 years.
Every supplement is a little different on the benefits,but you knew that,right?
 
[quote author=JustAWorkingMan link=topic=80004.msg830754#msg830754 date=1274141329]
Well foxman, first off, this vote shouldn't even be happening! Tyson flat outright lied! On the first conference call,he said that he wouldn't even pursue any negotiations unless he had an OVERWHELMING response to negotiate.But guess what,they started the negotiations even before some of the locals even had their meetings for their input.This I can prove! Which means that this whole concession deal was all planned out even before that first conference call.
Second, when people say about cooking the books,who says that they are doing anything illegal,use you head! There's more than one way to cook the books.Abf had a whole year to make the books look worse than they actually are.If you were to actually read the SEC filings,you will be able to see what they did with some of the money.But,the IBT won't tell you and ABF sure won't! Just look at the short term investments that they had.Do you actually know anything about short term investments???? I'll tell you, it's a LEGAL way to hide money for awhile! I could keep going but it would be useless because it's obvious that you even took the time to read the SEC filings! You probably wouldn't know what you were reading anyway.Just believe what the company and Tyson tell you to believe!Did you watch the DVD? Kemp said that we had 219 million in 2008 and then went on to say that now we are no longer debt free.We have a debt 26.5 million.That makes one believe that we went from 219 million to the good and are now in debt with no money! They are not lying but are not telling the whole truth.Even by their charts.They started that steep decline in Oct. of last year. Check out Moving Solutions at the BBB and you will see when Moving Solution was created. It was just a coincidence that it was created in Oct.2009.Wasn't it??????I could go on and on but it's no use when people won't take the time to do their own research instead of listening to others. Just how do you think that the people who are voting no came to that conclusion.It sure wasn't because of what they heard from the company or the IBT. It's called research and actually watching what's going on around you!!!!!!!!!!
As for the benefits, if you really are a Teamster, look in your supplement, which you should have easy access to if it's as you say that your a teamster of 21 years.
Every supplement is a little different on the benefits,but you knew that,right?
[/quote]AMEN BROTHER !! ALL IT TAKES IS A LITTLE RESEARCH...FACTS ARE THE FACTS !! PS/ HOW'S THIS ONE OUR REGIONAL VP INFORMED US TODAY THAT IF WE WANTED TO CHANGE OUR NO VOTES TO A YES THEY COULD GET THAT DONE FOR US !! REALLY ON A SECRET BALLOT THEY COULD GET OUR VOTE SWITCHED !! I WONDER HOW?? & IF YOU THINK I'M MAKING THIS UP, I HAVE A ROOM FULL OF DRIVER'S
 
well, you still have not refuted my claim that even with a cut, we would be making more than conway or fedex.
Although according to you, I am an uninformed idiot who doesnt understand the lies and deceptions of the company and the union. If you really believe that we are all being duped by the powers that be, why do you work here?
Since I work for a living, it took some time to get accurate numbers because I have other things to do besides be away from home 80 to 90 hours a week doing bed runs.....
Pension: 9.36/hour
h/w:7.91/hour
wages after a cut: 19.97[i think]
Now, since I am such a gullible financial idiot, I got out my grade school Mickey Mouse calculator and came up with:
37.24/hour
Now, please tell me that fedex, conway, OD or any of the others make more than 37.24/hour.

Your point on the debt is easily explained, but not often understood. Large companies incur short term debt all the time even if they claim they are "debt free". How is this? Well, customers dont pay their bills immediately after the freight is delivered. So if a company has to pay the fuel bill this month and not all customers are paid in full, they have revolving credit [which is a debt to the uninformed] to pay their bill. Now when the income doesnt match the outgo, that revolving credit debt grows larger and larger if there are no cash reserves to pay off the revolving credit bill. That is why the company debt has been increasing since the freight available isnt enough to "feed the beast" so to speak.

Heres a quote from your posting:
"Abf had a whole year to make the books look worse than they actually are."
so now youre an accountant? Where is your proof? Post the SEC filings right here with notes and your explanation of the numbers. The union had people look at these numbers as well. Are you saying that they missed something? Are they in cahoots with Kemp to defraud us in some way? The union themselves sent out a statement that the moving solutions business was a part of the whole company and we were to move the freight generated by it.

Another quote:
"they started the negotiations even before some of the locals even had their meetings for their input.This I can prove!"
Ok, go ahead and prove it. Post a quote from a referenced source. Release a statement to the press with your witnesses. contact the locals and have their statements put on this board. have something that isnt some faceless poster hiding behind a chatroom name saying "yeah, I was there!" Post a link. Show something.

I have read the sec filings. thanks for the personal insult that i wouldnt understand them.
Whats with all the exclamation points anyway? You seem stressed. if you were debt free with some money in the bank you may be calmer, like me. But, I am a financial idiot after all and probably wouldnt know the difference between a Roth Ira and an ETF.
I look forward to some more personal attacks from the board
After all, I could be wrong and all this will be for nothing and the company will keep going and we will have jobs for the next few years and we will keep our wages where they are.
 
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