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ABF | Pension Is A Joke

canaryinthemine said:
Yes it is, Brother.......The IBT could alleviate that heavy load,...by requiring some of that $700 million Federal relief money YRC just got....(...In spite of them only being valued at $70 million.....Imagine that!....).......
....to be paid into the pension funds that YRC has been shorting for the last decade.

And ABF must remember,.......Those pension fund contributions could be equated to part of the wage packet. When I left ABF in 2017,.....they were paying roughly $432 a week in pension contributions....per man. I was the steward,...I got the receipts......

If ArcBest deems it "cheaper" to get out of the pension plans,.....they've got to compensate each employee a comparable amount to the pension contributions. We did negotiate that figure,....they agreed to it,....Anything less would be a....."wage cut"........

Cut "Essential Worker" truck driver wages in the middle of a driver shortage/pandemic? Wouldn't that make upper management seem like....greedy bloodsuckers who could care less about "essential workers",....and more about lining their own pockets?
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FYI Canary, YRCW is valued (market cap) at over $200 million not $70 million as you state above.
 
Triplex said:
FYI Canary, YRCW is valued (market cap) at over $200 million not $70 million as you state above.
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My apologies. I think I got that figure from someone on the YRC board.

But,.....$700 million in relief?...for a $200 million valued company? Didn't Eastman Kodak just get a Government loan for $765 million?,...They're only valued at $440 million.....

I thought the argument against passing the Butch Lewis Act to save endangered pension funds,....was that the: "Government doesn't get involved in market decisions...."...
...or something to that effect from Mitch McConnell.......

Sure looks like a lot of cash being sloshed around in the market.......Wonder if any of it will wind up in pension funds for back payments owed?
 
canaryinthemine said:
Yes it is, Brother.......The IBT could alleviate that heavy load,...by requiring some of that $700 million Federal relief money YRC just got....(...In spite of them only being valued at $70 million.....Imagine that!....).......
....to be paid into the pension funds that YRC has been shorting for the last decade.

And ABF must remember,.......Those pension fund contributions could be equated to part of the wage packet. When I left ABF in 2017,.....they were paying roughly $432 a week in pension contributions....per man. I was the steward,...I got the receipts......

If ArcBest deems it "cheaper" to get out of the pension plans,.....they've got to compensate each employee a comparable amount to the pension contributions. We did negotiate that figure,....they agreed to it,....Anything less would be a....."wage cut"........

Cut "Essential Worker" truck driver wages in the middle of a driver shortage/pandemic? Wouldn't that make upper management seem like....greedy bloodsuckers who could care less about "essential workers",....and more about lining their own pockets?
Click to expand...
It's funny CSPF ABF only gets $342 dollars a week in pension benefits. I guess your $432 dollars a week is the difference between. A 30% reduction in benefits and a 100% reduction in benefits for CSPF ABF employees, in 2025. So much for equal pay for equal work.
 
canaryinthemine said:
My apologies. I think I got that figure from someone on the YRC board.

But,.....$700 million in relief?...for a $200 million valued company? Didn't Eastman Kodak just get a Government loan for $765 million?,...They're only valued at $440 million.....

I thought the argument against passing the Butch Lewis Act to save endangered pension funds,....was that the: "Government doesn't get involved in market decisions...."...
...or something to that effect from Mitch McConnell.......

Sure looks like a lot of cash being sloshed around in the market.......Wonder if any of it will wind up in pension funds for back payments owed?
Click to expand...

The companies need to be on the hook for pensions not taxpayers. Union negotiated with companies not taxpayers.
Why don't you give back some of your pension $$$$ so your brother teamsters can have a slice of the pie??
After all you care....
 
canaryinthemine said:
Yes it is, Brother.......The IBT could alleviate that heavy load,...by requiring some of that $700 million Federal relief money YRC just got....(...In spite of them only being valued at $70 million.....Imagine that!....).......
....to be paid into the pension funds that YRC has been shorting for the last decade.

And ABF must remember,.......Those pension fund contributions could be equated to part of the wage packet. When I left ABF in 2017,.....they were paying roughly $432 a week in pension contributions....per man. I was the steward,...I got the receipts......

If ArcBest deems it "cheaper" to get out of the pension plans,.....they've got to compensate each employee a comparable amount to the pension contributions. We did negotiate that figure,....they agreed to it,....Anything less would be a....."wage cut"........

Cut "Essential Worker" truck driver wages in the middle of a driver shortage/pandemic? Wouldn't that make upper management seem like....greedy bloodsuckers who could care less about "essential workers",....and more about lining their own pockets?
Click to expand...
AS you know Canary, UPS is the only Top tier company in Western PA pension fund, no 30% pension cut for UPS. Why wasn't a supplement passed in the last ABF contract, to make ABF top tier.
 
canaryinthemine said:
I would suggest reading up on what a defined-benefit pension is,....Although there are many entities trying to......eliminate PBGI-backed pensions....and the PBGC itself.....
....(....including the current head of the Treasury Dept.....)....
I think you’ll find there are more protections built into defined-benefit funds.......than any other alternative.

All it would take.....is a change in the current political leadership....and the legal protections of the PBGC would be reinforced.....and maybe the Butch Lewis Act would come off the bottom of that stack of Bills on Mitch McConnel’s desk.....

And then maybe.......defined-benefit pensions would rise to their former level of desirability.......

And maybe the Hoffa regime gets booted out next election.......and the new leadership finally gets serious with YRC....and negotiates a full benefit/full pay contract......and ignores all the “crocodile tears” from YRC management.....

Start fully funding ALL the funds.....

Why get out now? Wait for a few months......Things may change substantially......
Or not.......
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You should have noticed were NYabf was from. Did it ever cross your mind that they were from a bankrupt or soon to be bankrupt MEPF. Obviously not. Instead you went straight to your canned socialist response to everything. Your uncle joe responses from the kremlins basement are getting old. If you can't give an intelligent response, don't post.
 
Triplex said:
Absolutely. Local 707 pension fund has been insolvent for a number of years now.

https://www.ai-cio.com/news/teamsters-local-707-pension-fund-dries-up-receives-pbgc-lifeline/
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Informative article........The Treasury Department rejected their application for a vote to lower pensions. So,...therefore the PBGC sent a cash infusion.....And they will in the future, depending on Fund administrative needs,...and the solvency of the PBGC.

Congress is required to fund the PBGC. Congress also voted for deregulation of trucking......Cause and effect, don't you think?.....

The #707 fund identified deregulation,...and the Teamster's inability to organize any other companies into the Fund....as the primary reasons for Fund failure.
Exactly where did the employee participants do....something.....for the Fund to fail? As we all know,...a pension promise was supposed to be long-term. If I was told back in 1975 that pensions,...protected by law, and PBGC,....would be torn apart by Congress and legislation, and incompetence at the highest levels,.......I might've stayed far away from trucking,...pensions,...

The push,....emanating from Wall Street,...for individual employees to...."invest"....in their retirement,...with no guarantees and subject to market vagaries,......also required the collapse of defined-benefit pensions.......Do you think Wall Street has a vested interest for every American to "play" the stock market? Does the average American have the expertise to "play" the stock market?
Defined-benefit pensions were created to provide a guaranteed pension,....administered by professional investors,.....for working people who couldn't afford to......lose.....their retirement funds.

It seems it took collusion between Wall Street, Congress,...and either incompetent OR complicit Teamster leadership,....to ruin the safeguards that were established to.....guarantee working people a pension.
Operative word being "Guarantee".......

It now seems Congress is trying to de-fund PBGC. In spite of a mandate to fully fund it. At what point does it dawn on working people that.......there is a Plan to force participation in the stock market game,.......whether you know what you're doing or not.....?

Stomping out defined-benefit pensions for working people......(Even though Congress, State Governments, Municipalities, Police Forces, and the Military,...all retire on Defined-Benefit funds...)...
...means that working people have....no choice....but to "play" the stock market......

And Wall Street says: "Thanks for part of your paycheck!"..........
 
Puff Driver said:
The companies need to be on the hook for pensions not taxpayers. Union negotiated with companies not taxpayers.
Why don't you give back some of your pension $$$$ so your brother teamsters can have a slice of the pie??
After all you care....
Click to expand...


Go look up "Continental Bakeries Bankruptcy".....Continental Bakeries was Hostess,.....and they defaulted on their pension payments for years,...found a favorable bankruptcy judge who put employee pension obligations at the bottom of the "payback" list.....
Then,....the former owners sold the "Hostess" name for many millions,.....to themselves.......Hired back many former management staff,.....and completely shed any Union affiliation,...or any previous obligations to any sort of pension fund that they owed.....

The Western Penna Teamsters Fund took a $500 million hit......Yet,....Hostess cupcakes and Twinkies are racking up pretty good sales, aren't they?

Is this one of the companies that "need to be on the hook"?
 
canaryinthemine said:
Informative article........The Treasury Department rejected their application for a vote to lower pensions. So,...therefore the PBGC sent a cash infusion.....And they will in the future, depending on Fund administrative needs,...and the solvency of the PBGC.

Congress is required to fund the PBGC. Congress also voted for deregulation of trucking......Cause and effect, don't you think?.....

The #707 fund identified deregulation,...and the Teamster's inability to organize any other companies into the Fund....as the primary reasons for Fund failure.
Exactly where did the employee participants do....something.....for the Fund to fail? As we all know,...a pension promise was supposed to be long-term. If I was told back in 1975 that pensions,...protected by law, and PBGC,....would be torn apart by Congress and legislation, and incompetence at the highest levels,.......I might've stayed far away from trucking,...pensions,...

The push,....emanating from Wall Street,...for individual employees to...."invest"....in their retirement,...with no guarantees and subject to market vagaries,......also required the collapse of defined-benefit pensions.......Do you think Wall Street has a vested interest for every American to "play" the stock market? Does the average American have the expertise to "play" the stock market?
Defined-benefit pensions were created to provide a guaranteed pension,....administered by professional investors,.....for working people who couldn't afford to......lose.....their retirement funds.

It seems it took collusion between Wall Street, Congress,...and either incompetent OR complicit Teamster leadership,....to ruin the safeguards that were established to.....guarantee working people a pension.
Operative word being "Guarantee".......

It now seems Congress is trying to de-fund PBGC. In spite of a mandate to fully fund it. At what point does it dawn on working people that.......there is a Plan to force participation in the stock market game,.......whether you know what you're doing or not.....?

Stomping out defined-benefit pensions for working people......(Even though Congress, State Governments, Municipalities, Police Forces, and the Military,...all retire on Defined-Benefit funds...)...
...means that working people have....no choice....but to "play" the stock market......

And Wall Street says: "Thanks for part of your paycheck!"..........
Click to expand...
The Teamsters, employers and pension fund are responsible for it's failure. Not the government. Talk about living the union dream, having your pension contributions going to a bankrupt pension fund for twenty years. Call Nancy and Chuck, tell them to vote for Grassley/Alexander, meaningful pension reform.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Still,.....ahh,.....Ignoring you, Bubba Gump.

Not even curious.......
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We got a financial crisis brewing, Nancy and Chuck will be forced to vote for Grassley/Alexander. Good thing too, organized labor needs some new tools to keep it competitive. This is especially true since the Carter, Clinton and the Obama administrations did nothing for organized labor.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Go look up "Continental Bakeries Bankruptcy".....Continental Bakeries was Hostess,.....and they defaulted on their pension payments for years,...found a favorable bankruptcy judge who put employee pension obligations at the bottom of the "payback" list.....
Then,....the former owners sold the "Hostess" name for many millions,.....to themselves.......Hired back many former management staff,.....and completely shed any Union affiliation,...or any previous obligations to any sort of pension fund that they owed.....

The Western Penna Teamsters Fund took a $500 million hit......Yet,....Hostess cupcakes and Twinkies are racking up pretty good sales, aren't they?

Is this one of the companies that "need to be on the hook"?
Click to expand...
The funny thing, the Teamsters voted for a wage cut. The bakers union called managements bluff. Said hell no we aren't going to take no stinking wage cut! Management said we can't afford to operate. The lenders took control of the company. The stock holders lost everything. The teamsters and bakers pension funds got stiffed for 2 billion dollars. The union work force was canned. The moral of the story. Don't let a bankruptcy judge write your contract.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Informative article........The Treasury Department rejected their application for a vote to lower pensions. So,...therefore the PBGC sent a cash infusion.....And they will in the future, depending on Fund administrative needs,...and the solvency of the PBGC.

Congress is required to fund the PBGC. Congress also voted for deregulation of trucking......Cause and effect, don't you think?.....

The #707 fund identified deregulation,...and the Teamster's inability to organize any other companies into the Fund....as the primary reasons for Fund failure.
Exactly where did the employee participants do....something.....for the Fund to fail? As we all know,...a pension promise was supposed to be long-term. If I was told back in 1975 that pensions,...protected by law, and PBGC,....would be torn apart by Congress and legislation, and incompetence at the highest levels,.......I might've stayed far away from trucking,...pensions,...

The push,....emanating from Wall Street,...for individual employees to...."invest"....in their retirement,...with no guarantees and subject to market vagaries,......also required the collapse of defined-benefit pensions.......Do you think Wall Street has a vested interest for every American to "play" the stock market? Does the average American have the expertise to "play" the stock market?
Defined-benefit pensions were created to provide a guaranteed pension,....administered by professional investors,.....for working people who couldn't afford to......lose.....their retirement funds.

It seems it took collusion between Wall Street, Congress,...and either incompetent OR complicit Teamster leadership,....to ruin the safeguards that were established to.....guarantee working people a pension.
Operative word being "Guarantee".......

It now seems Congress is trying to de-fund PBGC. In spite of a mandate to fully fund it. At what point does it dawn on working people that.......there is a Plan to force participation in the stock market game,.......whether you know what you're doing or not.....?

Stomping out defined-benefit pensions for working people......(Even though Congress, State Governments, Municipalities, Police Forces, and the Military,...all retire on Defined-Benefit funds...)...
...means that working people have....no choice....but to "play" the stock market......

And Wall Street says: "Thanks for part of your paycheck!"..........
Click to expand...
Brother, the point of Congress, state government, municipalities, etc. getting defined pensions is these individuals give up (supposedly) better paying jobs in the private sector to work for the public good. Same as some student loans being forgiven if individuals will take jobs at 501c3 nonprofit organizations or working for the public good (law enforcement, justice system, hospitals, etc) or military organizations.
 
Homesick said:
Brother, the point of Congress, state government, municipalities, etc. getting defined pensions is these individuals give up (supposedly) better paying jobs in the private sector to work for the public good. Same as some student loans being forgiven if individuals will take jobs at 501c3 nonprofit organizations or working for the public good (law enforcement, justice system, hospitals, etc) or military organizations.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the information,.....The Defined-Benefit pensions are a.....reward,....for Public Service?

If Truck Drivers are an "Essential" industry, for the Public Good......shouldn't they be rewarded, too?
 
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