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Pension really fixed, not so sure

Kennesaw Kid

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
Not sure if you were able to read the article or not. When I first posted it was not blocked behind a pay wall. One of the commenters in the article was Russell Kamp who's thoughts on pension reform were often cited on many of the Facebook retiree committee pages. His viewpoint was that funding may just barely get the funds to 2051 and possibly be exhausted before that. I know that this is of little concern to many who are retired or those that are nearing retirement, but to my 30 year old coworker who asks if there will be anything for him ,it is very important.
That is why you tell that 30 old co-worker to keep the contract strong and push for more increased Pension payments for HIS future.

Collective pool indeed. Socialism at it's finest and that never works. Depending on a third party to fund your retirement years is never a good idea.
If it makes you feel that way, then don't apply for it.....simple solution for you.
 

Razorblade

Active Member
If it makes you feel that way, then don't apply for it.....simple solution for you.


Oh, I applied in 2004. I've collected more than $650,000 in the last 17 years. At 72, I should have another 15 years to collect. Do you really think that is a sustainable business plan for pension funds? Of course it isn't. That's why the pension is now a federal welfare program.
I also never expected Western Pa and CSPF to fund my retirement. Save and invest. A 401K or IRA and Health Savings Accounts combined with Social Security will provide an income in your 70s that exceeds your working year earnings. The pension is just extra cash.
 

Triplex

Experienced stalker
That is why you tell that 30 old co-worker to keep the contract strong and push for more increased Pension payments for HIS future.
<snip>
No! You tell that 30 year old worker to talk to the non-union workers and convince them to unionize. That's the REAL solution to our pay and pension problems. No one in their right mind can expect the few Teamster companies to shell out more money for pay and pension when the competition is non-union and has lower overall labor costs. It's only when the playing field is leveled (most or all LTL is organized/Teamster) that we can expect better.
 

Snotgrass

Member
No! You tell that 30 year old worker to talk to the non-union workers and convince them to unionize. That's the REAL solution to our pay and pension problems. No one in their right mind can expect the few Teamster companies to shell out more money for pay and pension when the competition is non-union and has lower overall labor costs. It's only when the playing field is leveled (most or all LTL is organized/Teamster) that we can expect better.
Good luck on that, most non union drivers I speak with only see the low pay and the pension problems and want nothing to do with the Teamsters.
 

Triplex

Experienced stalker
Good luck on that, most non union drivers I speak with only see the low pay, problems and the pension problems and want nothing to do with the Teamsters.
Sure, I get that. Most people are too short sighted to understand that any union only has strength when it represents the majority of workers in any particular field. The Teamsters Union is not held in high regard by many because of its less than desirable behavior in the past. We have to hope for continued improvements in the Union's behavior so it will become more desirable to more workers in our field. If and when that happens and more companies unionize we all can be better compensated for our work.
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
Good luck on that, most non union drivers I speak with only see the low pay and the pension problems and want nothing to do with the Teamsters.
Pension problems? Not anymore....... you remind me of someone.....
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
Sure, I get that. Most people are too short sighted to understand that any union only has strength when it represents the majority of workers in any particular field. The Teamsters Union is not held in high regard by many because of its less than desirable behavior in the past. We have to hope for continued improvements in the Union's behavior so it will become more desirable to more workers in our field. If and when that happens and more companies unionize we all can be better compensated for our work.
Well put...... Just like anything involving humans, the Teamsters have had problems.... hopefully that is changing....my opinion is it is still better than nothing...
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
No! You tell that 30 year old worker to talk to the non-union workers and convince them to unionize. That's the REAL solution to our pay and pension problems. No one in their right mind can expect the few Teamster companies to shell out more money for pay and pension when the competition is non-union and has lower overall labor costs. It's only when the playing field is leveled (most or all LTL is organized/Teamster) that we can expect better.
Triplex, I feel what your saying, but the days of Master Agreements with multiple companies are basically history in my opinion. Any new Teamster companies will want a stand alone contract and will want no part of a Multi Employer Pension Fund. The government deregulated trucking back in the day to take away the ability of multiple companies striking as one and basically shutting down transportation in the process until an agreement was reached. Zollars later did his part by buying up companies on borrowed money and nearly bankrupting all of them. That being said, it would still be beneficial for employees to organize and get a contract for better work rules, pension, insurance, overtime after 8 hours a day, double time on the seventh day and holidays, and on and on. But, I don’t see how other companies getting their own contract is going to benefit the current Teamster freight companies in any way as each company will still negotiate their own contracts. What Zollars did was absolutely criminal in my opinion taking good freight companies and basically trying to sink them. The only way that I see the YRCW companies getting back to the top is by better management and getting back to profitability so that they can negotiate for full pension contributions and get their pay back up where it should be. And again, I want to state that in my opinion, Zollars is fully responsible for what happened to the good people working for the YRCW companies. This is just my opinion, so feel free to blast me for it if you like.
 

pjl251

Active Member
Triplex, I feel what your saying, but the days of Master Agreements with multiple companies are basically history in my opinion. Any new Teamster companies will want a stand alone contract and will want no part of a Multi Employer Pension Fund. The government deregulated trucking back in the day to take away the ability of multiple companies striking as one and basically shutting down transportation in the process until an agreement was reached. Zollars later did his part by buying up companies on borrowed money and nearly bankrupting all of them. That being said, it would still be beneficial for employees to organize and get a contract for better work rules, pension, insurance, overtime after 8 hours a day, double time on the seventh day and holidays, and on and on. But, I don’t see how other companies getting their own contract is going to benefit the current Teamster freight companies in any way as each company will still negotiate their own contracts. What Zollars did was absolutely criminal in my opinion taking good freight companies and basically trying to sink them. The only way that I see the YRCW companies getting back to the top is by better management and getting back to profitability so that they can negotiate for full pension contributions and get their pay back up where it should be. And again, I want to state that in my opinion, Zollars is fully responsible for what happened to the good people working for the YRCW companies. This is just my opinion, so feel free to blast me for it if you like.
Say it like it is.
 

Razorblade

Active Member
"Socialism at its finest, that never works." LMAO. That's funny...collecting your SOCIAL SECURITY, collecting your SOCIALIST PENSION, all the while saying you want MEDICARE FOR ALL...LMAO
Social Security is an annuity. Fully paid for by FICA premiums. The same kind of annuity available from Nationwide or State Farm.
The pension became socialist when the government decided to use general revenue tax dollars to fund it. The pension funds should have been allowed to fail.
What do you think healthcare is now? You think it's insurance. How many posts on this board talk about the Teamster free healthcare. Insurance is not healthcare. Insurance is the definition of socialism. Everybody pays in so that those who need it can get their bills paid. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Straight out of Karl Marx's communist manifesto.
 

Big block

Member
I disagree, nothing is definite but I see many guys switch to these other awesome places to work and no one quits and their work force is much younger, so there a new guy sits at or near the bottom. At Yellow/Holland guys are retiring and quitting constantly and a young guy can be half way up the board in 5 to 10 years, maybe less, something to consider.
You think it's going to be there in 5 years?
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
Social Security is an annuity. Fully paid for by FICA premiums. The same kind of annuity available from Nationwide or State Farm.
The pension became socialist when the government decided to use general revenue tax dollars to fund it. The pension funds should have been allowed to fail.
What do you think healthcare is now? You think it's insurance. How many posts on this board talk about the Teamster free healthcare. Insurance is not healthcare. Insurance is the definition of socialism. Everybody pays in so that those who need it can get their bills paid. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Straight out of Karl Marx's communist manifesto.
I know insurance isn't health care but its here to stay....since you don't want to invest in these companies to enjoy in the profits, then perhaps you should just pay out of pocket and not pay into the socialist system....you do have a choice....
 

ABF381

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
Premium
Social Security is an annuity. Fully paid for by FICA premiums. The same kind of annuity available from Nationwide or State Farm.
The pension became socialist when the government decided to use general revenue tax dollars to fund it. The pension funds should have been allowed to fail.
What do you think healthcare is now? You think it's insurance. How many posts on this board talk about the Teamster free healthcare. Insurance is not healthcare. Insurance is the definition of socialism. Everybody pays in so that those who need it can get their bills paid. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Straight out of Karl Marx's communist manifesto.
We both know that isn't true about Social Security....the money is not invested but is put into general revenue with your tax dollars, ask the government to see the balance of your individual account...they can't because there isn't one........the pension funds were also socialist well before the government gave them funding...once again ask them to see the balance of your individual account...
 

Razorblade

Active Member
We both know that isn't true about Social Security....the money is not invested but is put into general revenue with your tax dollars, ask the government to see the balance of your individual account...they can't because there isn't one........the pension funds were also socialist well before the government gave them funding...once again ask them to see the balance of your individual account...
Correct. There is no individual account. Just like the Teamster pension, Social Security is an annuity. My premiums and my employers matching premiums bought lifetime income. No different than a commercial insurance annuity. I can go to ssa.gov and find exactly how much I and my employer paid in. The Social Security Trust Fund is a separate entity from the federal budget. There is 2.6 trillion dollars in the SS fund today. SS dollars are invested in government bonds, no different than the savings bonds I gave my grandchildren. Don't even think about telling me about IOUs. Is that piece of paper in your wallet $5.00 or is it an IOU? Are the CSPF investments cash or IOUs?
The difference is this; in 2034, when the SS trust fund is empty, the benefits will be cut to match the incoming cash flow. Multi employer funds now will not. The Teamster funds got a bailout of taxpayer dollars, welfare for truck drivers. My $3500.00 a month pension is $20.00 an hour. Why should the taxpayer working at Home Depot for $12.00 an hour subsidize my $20.00 an hour pension?
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
Social Security is an annuity. Fully paid for by FICA premiums. The same kind of annuity available from Nationwide or State Farm.
The pension became socialist when the government decided to use general revenue tax dollars to fund it. The pension funds should have been allowed to fail.
What do you think healthcare is now? You think it's insurance. How many posts on this board talk about the Teamster free healthcare. Insurance is not healthcare. Insurance is the definition of socialism. Everybody pays in so that those who need it can get their bills paid. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Straight out of Karl Marx's communist manifesto.
You can try to spin it any way you like Razorblade. Bottom line is, you draw income from the very things you preach against. And that is the very definition of HYPOCRISY! And just so you know, the Teamster healthcare is not free. It is negotiated as part of our hourly rate of pay just like the pension is. You used to be a Teamster, so you should know this. Or does this fact go against the narrative you are trying to create.
 

Razorblade

Active Member
You can try to spin it any way you like Razorblade. Bottom line is, you draw income from the very things you preach against. And that is the very definition of HYPOCRISY! And just so you know, the Teamster healthcare is not free. It is negotiated as part of our hourly rate of pay just like the pension is. You used to be a Teamster, so you should know this. Or does this fact go against the narrative you are trying to create.
You might want to rethink that. I know that is what we have been told for decades and it used to even say that in some supplements BUT, if it's part of your hourly rate, it is defined as payment in kind and taxable as income.
As for hypocrisy, you can say that all day and I freely admit that I will take advantage of every benefit available to me, BUT you could try to address the points I make instead of ignoring them.
 

Steward of the Rock

Well-Known Member
You might want to rethink that. I know that is what we have been told for decades and it used to even say that in some supplements BUT, if it's part of your hourly rate, it is defined as payment in kind and taxable as income.
As for hypocrisy, you can say that all day and I freely admit that I will take advantage of every benefit available to me, BUT you could try to address the points I make instead of ignoring them.
Nice try at another spin there Blade. In our current contract (Southern Region Supplement ABF), the rate paid on our behalf weekly for Health and Welfare was $401.13 effective August 1st of 2018 with a .40 cent per hour bump on 08/01/2019. Followed by a .42 cent per hour bump on 08/01/2020. And a .50 cent per hour bump for 2021 and 2022. This is part of our pay package and is reflected at the end of the year as such (at least it is at ABF). The reason we pay no taxes on it is because of an exemption from the Affordable Care Act granted to Union health care plans. Without this exemption, we would be taxed at a certain point for it as our plan is considered a "Cadillac"plan.
Therefore, as it is part of our pay package, and there are hourly increases to it each year, I stand behind my statement that is considered part of our hourly rate when it is negotiated in our pay package. And as far as addressing your other points, the only points I see you making is that you will take advantage of any pay that comes your way and yet tell others it is Socialism. So, does this mean you are in favor of Socialism? Or just a Hypocrite?
 
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