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Saving America's Pension Plans Is A Rare Chance For Bipartisan Accomplishment | Opinion

Discussion in 'Central States Pension Fund Discussion' started by Freightmaster1, Jul 24, 2019.

  1. Crystal

    Crystal Well-Known Member

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    i don't get some of the people on here. I know truck drivers love to argue but some of this stuff is way off the wall. I stay away from the political debates because they usually turn into name calling and insults by some in the majority against the lefties. My interest in this thread is about possible bi-partisan support for the Butch Lewis Act. I don't know or care about Canary's Saul Lewinsky's, or whatever his name is, style of commie writing. I like the way Canary writes his posts. If Butch Lewis is unconstitutional I'll leave that up to the courts. I'll defer to the 228 or so congressmen who co-sponsored the bill. I thought this was a site for truckers and not for political scholars.
     
  2. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    In today’s litigious atmosphere, Stewards, Business Agents, and Union Reps have the Responsibility to know the Law, contract, and Regulation they are commenting on, and can be held liable if spreading false info. I would think you want Truth about the Law and our financials, and not shots in the dark.
     
  3. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Absolutely, there James........And I hope you’re talking from experience..........Steward wasn’t the only job I had with my Local......

    And we were talking about whether a bipartisan push will get Butch Lewis passed.......
    I don’t think so , mainly because of my Opinion about.....who is lobbying against that, and ......in My Opinion.......why they are....

    I would like to see a bipartisan push for many things.........but we’veseen Certain Groups stonewall a number of........reasonable propositions......

    And I ask “why?”.......and who benefits?

    Since you seem to be talking from experience, James.........I would imagine you’ve successfully lead groups to form petitions, file grievances, and fight for the disenfranchised..........
    You seem to know the awful responsibility it requires.......and I hope you’ve used that responsibility wisely to help your fellow employee.

    And I would image you know the difference between an opinion and a threat.........anyone in a leadership capacity facing management would have their nose rubbed in the difference......if they did not know........

    Anyway.........the power of the rank-and-file to sway legislative “Opinion”....is a rather tenuous thing, nowadays......
    ........mainly because there are divisions in the ranks.....
    Do you think there are groups that.....encourage those divisions?
    To be exploited?

    All Union people ought to be pushing for passage of Butch Lewis........regardless of whether the individual pension fund the person is in,....will be covered by that act.....
    ......as you’ve pointed out several times,...that my Fund is not.....

    Ever hear of the phrase :”An injury to one, is an injury to all...”?

    I think it’s important to support the Butch Lewis Act.......even though I will get nothing out of it, personally.....

    What do you think, James?
     
  4. Crystal

    Crystal Well-Known Member

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    I agree!!!!!!! That's the kind of thing I like to read. If only it were true in today's me me me what's in it for me.
     
    buffalobill and canaryinthemine like this.
  5. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    First, I thought we were friends- and then you called me James! Only my Mom got to do that....

    Yes, I have the experience. And twice I’ve been courted to run for State Legislature. In 76 in your (and my native) Pa. and last year by the American Family Assoc in Indiana...

    You already know that, while I would gain my full pension from it- I oppose it. It solves nothing, (the to be bailed out CSPF would still not be able to pay back the loan), and is misusing taxpayer’s funds.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  6. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Sorry, there Jimmy G........Didn't mean to call you by your formal name.....

    Alright,....I understand your position. Although "misusing taxpayer funds" seems to be a pastime of many elected,...and non-elected officials.
    But,...the Congressional Budget Office says that it would cost taxpayers more to prop up the PBGC,...a pricetag of 100 billion dollars,.....
    ....than it would to pass the Butch Lewis Act.....at 34 billion dollars.

    Since "wasting taxpayer dollars" seems to be endemic,..and inevitable......shouldn't we consider a program that "wastes" less of the taxpayer money? There is a very good chance that the CSPF can...at least...start to pay back the loan. As you know, Butch Lewis is not a bailout, but a long-term, low-interest loan.

    "Bailout" seems to be shorthand for people who have an unreasonable axe to grind with MEPFs. "Bailout" is a disingenuous use of an inflammatory term. To properly call it a "loan program", wouldn't be as.....inflammatory.

    There are many intangibles for the future of MEPFs,...not in the least , technology,....which may drive down human bodies participating in MEPFs..(..Profits stay high, though...).
    But,...companies may find that it's easy to develop an algorithim for Over-the-road trucking,.......many other parts of trucking might not be so easy, and may, for decades, require humans to make decisions.

    MEPFs,...for decades themselves,....were the primary recruitment tool for Union carriers. Until a series of disastrous and mis-guided laws and decisions were made,....within a very short space of time. The cumulative effect was......destruction of the MAIN reason many people held out,...or organized....for Union jobs.

    If I was a Forensic investigator,........I would suspect a lot of "dirty fingerprints" all over the destruction of MEPFs and de-funding of PBGC...In MY Opinion....

    Demographically speaking,........If the MEPFs can..."stabilize".......there will be a long period of young new-hires paying into the Funds.....once the large glut of us older Boomers are out of the system. That Glut was created by the companies........by hiring older Teamsters so they didn't have to train inexperienced people.

    If pension plans can get the......Legislative support,......there may be a much brighter future for MEPFs,...Maybe they can go back to being the PRIMARY reason employees hold out for Union jobs. It will be years,...decades, even,....But, it might happen, if we start it now.
     
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  7. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    Excuse my being blunt- but, that’s delusional. BS, and you know it.

    The MEPFs promised twice as much as they had money for. There is no plausible way to ever pay it back, ...so, it IS a Bail out. Period. It’s out of our hands. The US is as broke as the Pensions, and printing money that’s worthless.. if they do the Bailout, they do. But it’s wrong...
     
    Homesick likes this.
  8. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Blunt is fine, Jimmy G......

    But the delusion may be on your part. If it is true that the United States is as "broke as the MEPFs"........then who is going to back up those funds in other types of pensions, like 401(k)'s?....
    "Private Industry"....you may say,.......But, if Private Industry is basing it's...."wealth"...on the value of the dollar.....is that dollar worth it? As you know, we're not on a Gold Standard anymore..........."Full Faith and Credit of the (Broke?) US Government"?

    A "bailout",...in MY Opinion,.....is paying farmers and farming conglomerates billions of dollars for soybeans they are no longer able to sell to China,...because of Government-created tariffs. No Quid Pro Quo there, I'm sure..........

    As you know,.....the failure of Congress to fully fund the PBGC,...is a violation of the ERISA Act......and the only reason it hasn't risen to the level of....Congressional inquiry, is because.....technically the MEPF program of the PBGC isn't quite "broke" yet.

    But,....when..(not "if"..)...the CSPF issues it's final check,...then by ERISA law, the PBGC must pick up and pay the pensions of,...410,000? people.

    At that point,.......since the funding is required by law,.......then Congress will either fund, balk and go to court,..or pass other funding laws,.......Either way, it will cost the American taxpayers at least 100 billion dollars, according to the CBO. More, if there is any sort of litigation.....

    Would that be a "bailout"?.....Would it be worse than a "bailout"?....a bigger waste?

    Frankly,...at the legal crossroads we are at,.......it would be far, far cheaper (34 billion, by the CBO...). to pass the Butch Lewis Act loan program.

    And it is a loan program....The wording is a long-term, 30 year, low amortization payback from the funds involved.
    A bailout is....throwing money at a problem with no strings attached.......

    I can appreciate and agree with many Libertarian principles..........But,...since Speaker Paul Ryan kind of abdicated his fiscal responsibility to the tune of 343 billion of new Government spending from 2015 til his ....retirement.......I think the.....proverbial "horse is out of the barn"........as far as claiming new spending and "bailouts" will bankrupt our nation.

    I think it would be more intelligent,....and serve the American taxpayers better....by passing Butch Lewis,.....instead of whistling past the graveyard up until the financial disaster of the CSPF comes crashing down into the courts,...and people start flinging lawsuits around,....and Congress breaks out the firehose to squirt large wads of (our..) money at a problem they created,....and ignored to fix.
     
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  9. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    not saying you're wrong about Bailouts (Everything in your post IS a Bailout), but- hold your breath, and see if anything gets passed, other than your life....

    And stop insulting Libertarians (or Constitutionalist, like me) by mentioning Establishment/Liberal GOP Paul Ryan in the same sentence....
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  10. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Pardon me,.......I never considered Rep. Paul Ryan a Libertarian....He only pretended to be one when it suited his means.....
    .....and then fled the Scene of the Crime at his earliest opportunity........
     
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  11. 816cliff

    816cliff Member

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    I hate to get in the middle of a juicy exchange, but cspf is going to need more than the butch lewis bond program to stay afloat. the pbgc needs to be re-funded also. Does anyone remember solutions not bailouts. Central states and the IBT endorsed that dog of a plan. I guess I'm repeating myself when I say that our leadership and the ERISA law combined made this mess possible. The fix is gonna cost big money so why not get the $$$$ from our rich uncle those worthless dollars that a lot of people seemed to be obsessed about is still legal tender for all My debts public and private.
     
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  12. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Scroll back a little, Brother...........That's just what we're talking about. The Butch Lewis Act..(H.R.397, passed House of Representatives..S.2254....sits on Mitch McConnell's desk..)......has both provisions to provide long-term low-interest loans to troubled funds,.......AND funding for the MEPF program of the PBGC......which is required by law....sooner or later.....

    It would be nice if our Legislators would realize....party politics aside.......that not voting on Butch Lewis will eventually cause a bankruptcy in the CSPF,...which the PBGC would then be required ....BY LAW....to cover the bankrupt fund....
    .....and would cause a massive charge to the taxpayers of our country......100 billion by CBO estimate.....

    Butch Lewis,...by CBO estimate,..would cost 34 billion......And, if it works as advertised,...should be paid back,..albeit in 30 years......

    Now,.....Why don't those Boneheads in Congress see that?
     
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  13. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    CSPF ALONE will need $30 billion, and that's not counting the cost of setting up a new Government Bureau, plus hiring administration, buying the building, etc. The law doesn't claim figures. It just says As Needed. My guess is more like $500 billion...

    We all know they will eventually fund the PBGC. The Repubs almost did last Nov, and were about to increase the rate from 30% to 67% The Dems held out for more
     
  14. Jaloc

    Jaloc Well-Known Member

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    Crystal likes this.
  15. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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  16. nassauotb

    nassauotb Active Member

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    vote kevin mccaffrey out in november Suffolk county legislative district 14
    union elections are easier to fix than public elections
    turn the records of the local 707 pension fund over to the us justice dept and fbi for analysis and publication to all
    breach of fuduciary duty by the trustees? bet on it.


    This is copied and pasted from an emai, I'm sure we'll be hearing about this at the meeting.
    Road Carriers 707 Pension Update
    Road Carriers 707 Pension Fund Update
    This email was sent by the Road Carriers 707 Fund office to keep you informed of any updates to the 707 Pension Fund
    Road Carriers 707 Pension Fund
    Pension Reform Legislation Update September 27, 2019
    In July the House of Representatives passed the Butch Lewis Bill which relies on the creation of a loan program to assist Multiemployer pension funds such as ours. This was done with the support of all House Democrats and bipartisan support of 29 Republicans including the chief Republican sponsor Peter King and New York Republicans Lee Zeldin, John Katko and Chris Collins. Please contact your Congressional Representative and thank them for their support if they voted Yes and express your frustration if they voted No.
    The next hurdle is in the Senate where 60 of 100 votes are needed to pass this Legislation. Currently Republicans control a majority of the votes in the Senate. The Butch Lewis legislation was recently introduced in the Senate. No hearings or votes are scheduled. The strong bipartisan support in the House of Representatives shows broad based support for multiemployer pension relief. But it became clear during the debate in the House and subsequent discussions Republicans are not in support of a loan program such as the Butch Lewis Bill and a compromise in the Senate must be reached.
    In my many visits to Washington, DC, discussions with the Union’s lobbyist and stakeholders in the multiemployer pension world, several distinctions between a proposed Senate bill and the Butch Lewis Bill (HR 397) are clear. Although there is no compromise bill filed in the Senate there has been significant bipartisan discussions. Below are some of the different scenarios and priorities of any Legislation being discussed:
    Instead of a loan program detailed in Butch Lewis for troubled plans discussions are centered around partitioning orphan and other liability enough for plans to avoid or come out of insolvency.
    The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC) would administer the partitioning and would require additional funding to provide the resources necessary. Discussions also include an increase in the PBGC minimum guarantee.
    Any Legislation must minimize hits to retirees and employers who voluntarily joined these multi-employer plans. Any relief cannot adversely affect healthy plans and there must be changes in existing rules to allow healthy plans to stay that way.
    Any Legislation will not be a stand-alone bill requiring a stand-alone vote. Most probably will be attached to one of the required bills to keep the government funded prior to the end of the year.
    The Republican Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa is taking the lead on creating an outline of what possible Legislation may look like. It is expected within the next several weeks. This document will be circulated to stakeholders in the multi-employer pension world to provide feedback. Several things are clear, the longer it takes for relief the costlier it is to fix it. The Central States Pension Fund is expected to become insolvent in 2025. This insolvency will bankrupt the PBGC and cause a loss of Government Tax revenue of over 3 billion dollars plus the increased cost of social services. With these costs factored in the cost of any pension relief is reduced significantly.
    We cannot thank enough Congressman Peter King as the Chief Republican Sponsor of HR-397 who provided the bipartisan support, this momentum is now carrying over into the Senate. And as always, we must recognize and thank Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer who continues to look out for Local 707 retirees, actives and participants. At every step of the way, Local 707 is included in any discussions of Pension relief. This would not be happening if Senator Schumer did not make our issue his priority.
    Please remember to thank your Congressional representative if he voted for the Butch Lewis Bill and feel free to let them know how you feel if they didn’t.
    As soon as more details are released, I will send out more updates.
    Kevin McCaffrey, President
    Teamsters Local 707
     
  17. Crystal

    Crystal Well-Known Member

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    After repeated attempts to find out where my republican congressman Tom Rice stood he told that congress wasn't in the business of bailing out private pension funds. I was later contacted by his aide who echoed Rice's position. I asked him why Rice's fellow republican congressmen like Pete King were supporting the Butch Lewis Act? He said I would have to ask King. I told him that wasn't an answer and what happened to bipartisanship? He told me I already had Rice's position and politely hung up. So I applaud Peter King and all 29 republican representatives for their crossing the aisle and passing the bill..........................Now it's up to the McConnell and the republicans in the senate to do the right thing. I called both my republican senators, Graham and Scott, weeks ago but not surprising have yet to hear back from them
    .
     
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  18. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    You live in Conservative SC. Peter King lives in Liberal NY. The two are opposites, so it makes sense that King believes in spending money for any cause, but your Rep was elected to hold the line on Federal Spending. They both are doing what they were elected to do by the majority of their constituents. The answer to ask King why he supports as a Republican it is a sensible answer.
     
    Crystal likes this.
  19. nassauotb

    nassauotb Active Member

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    trustee kevin mccaffrey's records have not been examined by the dept of justice, fbi etc to determine whether there has been a breach if fiduciary duty et al.
    donald trump provides for
    https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...fact-sheets/voluntary-leave-transfer-program/

    kevin mccaffrey and local 707 were merged eith local 858 without a vote in violstion of the teamsters constitution.
    josepgh g cairo president of nassau otb spoke a meeting of teamsters local 858 at st marys chur h in carle place to say that kevin mccaffrey was a good boy. he is not. in a past local election he lost and had to contact hoffa to have the fix put in. he continues to scam the members of local 707. the employees of nassau otb believe he is mire than useless

    peter king will soon follow his daughter to the south
     
  20. nassauotb

    nassauotb Active Member

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    meet he funny girl, laura gillen, who does not know or rember that sheldon silver's boy, barry yomtov, did invite president of nassau otb josepgh cairo, to a meeting of teamsters local 858 st st marys church in carle place.
    cairo said what a good boy kevin was. hoffa scammed nassau otb employees when local 707 merged eith 858 without s vote by local 858 members in violation of the ibt constitution. crime is bipartisan as laura gillen seems to ignore. note cairo is now head of the nassau county republican committe.
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    1. [​IMG]Legislation would ban department heads from serving as party leaders
    Hempstead Supervisor Laura Gillen and Town Clerk Sylvia Cabana on Thursday announced legislation that would ban town department heads from serving as political party leaders. (Credit: Newsday / John Asbury)

    By John Asburyjohn.asbury@newsday.com @JohnAsbury Updated October 3, 2019 5:02 PM
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    Hempstead Town Supervisor Laura Gillen is proposing a ban on town department heads leading political committees as a way to help eliminate a "pay-to-play" culture.

    Gillen said she will propose legislation next month to amend the ethics code to ban town commissioners from also serving as heads of local political clubs or committees. She said about half of the town’s department chiefs, including nearly every commissioner and town attorney, are leaders of local Republican clubs.

    Gillen, a Democrat, is running for her second term next month against Republican Receiver of Taxes Don Clavin.
     

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