Through No Fault Of Their Own!

The role of the government is not to bail your asses out.
Our American government should be helping the American taxpayers
first. Especially helping out American states during bad weather
events like the power shut down in Texas last winter.
American taxpayer dollars should be helping the America taxpayer
first.
 
The only alternative is to close CSPF and pay off the current retirees and the ones still in the pipeline. Let these companies change to a 401-k. Let the teamsters put some money in the pot.
Dracula, you Bubba and several other complain and voice your disagreement with the government use of tax payer dollars to fund the pension plans. How is it any different from how the government is using tax payer dollars to fund the 401k plans by propping up the stockmarket?

The average 401(k) balance increased to a high of $129,300 in the second quarter of 2021, up 24 percent from the same period a year ago. The average 403(b) account balance increased to a record $113,300, also up 24 percent. The average IRA balance was $134,900, a 21 percent jump over the same period in 2020.
 
How is the government propping up the stock market? When the market corrects, which it will, the 401-k's take a hit. You union guys want the FED's to guarantee your pension so that it never takes a hit.
Again, the question, that no union guy can answer is, why are the non union taxpayers having to go into debt to pay off your bad unsecured gamble?
 
Have you done math on that? According to the Wisconsin Examiner (03/23/2021), just the Central States Pension Fund currently has roughly 360,000 participants. According to my local, Roughly 75% (270,000) currently draw a pension, and the other 25% (90,000) are currently working and having contributions paid on their behalf. Just to pay the current working/contributing (90,000) members $200,000 each would cost $18 billion dollars. Then the government would have to fund the PBGC enough to continue paying the current rate the retirees (270,000) are currently at. And that is just for the 360,000 Central States participants. The Wisconsin Examiner goes on to say that there are roughly 130 plans with 1.4 million members that are projected to be insolvent within the next 20 years. My guess is that your plan would end up costing a helluva lot more than the $86 billion (or whatever it is) from the Butch Lewis Act.
First, the CSFP is going to keep coming back to the well, year after year. They will have too because the fund will never be self sufficient. Second, the union selling point will be, that the FED's are guaranteeing your pension. The pipeline of retirees will never run dry.
How much is in the fund divided by 360,000? My calculator says 360,000 x 200,000=72 billion. The fund is then closed with no additional payments made into the fund or paid out to retirees.
You just gave all the nonunion taxpayers a peek into the future. " there are roughly 130 plans with 1.4 million members that are projected to be insolvent within the next 20 years." So now the time frame for guaranteeing union pensions is , at least, 20 years. So much for the low ball of 86 billion.
 
I enjoy being responsible for my future also.
At one time I owned Lucent, Enron, and Linn Energy, if that tells you anything.
I still like to get my feet wet.
10 likes for that post Homesick. Well said brother!!!
What makes you think that Central States will ever be self sufficient? If anything, the number of paying workers will decline, the number of retirees will increase, and the amount to cover the fund will only go up. That's why the FED's will have to infuse a butt load of money in round 2 and 3 and 4.... because the financials will never get better.
 
Not to mention what that $200,000.00 per active member would do for our 2023 contract negotiations. That would free up $342.00 per week or $8.55 an hour that the employer would no longer have to contribute to the fund. $8.55 per hour could make some huge changes to our pay and benefits

Our American government should be helping the American taxpayers
first. Especially helping out American states during bad weather
events like the power shut down in Texas last winter.
American taxpayer dollars should be helping the America taxpayer
first.
Well, in that case, I put in 20 years, for a non union LTL, put me into CSPF and let me draw a pension. The government needs to take care of all of us, right?
 
First, the CSFP is going to keep coming back to the well, year after year. They will have too because the fund will never be self sufficient. Second, the union selling point will be, that the FED's are guaranteeing your pension. The pipeline of retirees will never run dry.
How much is in the fund divided by 360,000? My calculator says 360,000 x 200,000=72 billion. The fund is then closed with no additional payments made into the fund or paid out to retirees.
You just gave all the nonunion taxpayers a peek into the future. " there are roughly 130 plans with 1.4 million members that are projected to be insolvent within the next 20 years." So now the time frame for guaranteeing union pensions is , at least, 20 years. So much for the low ball of 86 billion.
You weren't very clear in post #142. I thought that you were saying to leave the retirees in the fund and paying the current contributers $200,000 each to end the contributions made on their behalf. That is where I came up with the 90,000 contributers number times the $200,000 each. And the 130 plans in financial trouble currently is not some big secret like you are making it out to be.
 
"What makes you think that Central States will ever be self sufficient? If anything, the number of paying workers will decline, the number of retirees will increase, and the amount to cover the fund will only go up. That's why the FED's will have to infuse a butt load of money in round 2 and 3 and 4.... because the financials will never get better."
Dracula, in post #165 you stated the above. The freight retirees in the Central States fund currently drawing a pension are from many, many different freight companies, mostly that no longer exist due to government deregulation and government oversight. These companies have no more contributers that can retire. The only ones left in freight contributing that can retiree and start drawing a pension in the Central States fund are the YRC companies and ABF. Not to sound morbid, but there will most likely be more retirees exiting the plan than there are going into the plan retiring. Your math does not take into account that with a ratio of four retirees for every one contributer, that the opposite will most likely be the case.
 
Well, in that case, I put in 20 years, for a non union LTL, put me into CSPF and let me draw a pension. The government needs to take care of all of us, right?
Had your non union company been in the Union under the National Master Freight Agreement in the Central States area, and your employer contributed the required amount on your behalf, you could have drawn a pension from CSPF.
 
Why can't I ask for and get free money, from the FED's. Your unsecured loan is about as binding as me wanting a check, isn't it.
I
 
"What makes you think that Central States will ever be self sufficient? If anything, the number of paying workers will decline, the number of retirees will increase, and the amount to cover the fund will only go up. That's why the FED's will have to infuse a butt load of money in round 2 and 3 and 4.... because the financials will never get better."
Dracula, in post #165 you stated the above. The freight retirees in the Central States fund currently drawing a pension are from many, many different freight companies, mostly that no longer exist due to government deregulation and government oversight. These companies have no more contributers that can retire. The only ones left in freight contributing that can retiree and start drawing a pension in the Central States fund are the YRC companies and ABF. Not to sound morbid, but there will most likely be more retirees exiting the plan than there are going into the plan retiring. Your math does not take into account that with a ratio of four retirees for every one contributer, that the opposite will most likely be the case.
You comment there are 90,000 contributing employees. They will want their pensions FED guaranteed as well. What about the new hires, in the years to come. They will demand the same. When will the pipeline run dry?
 
Had your non union company been in the Union under the National Master Freight Agreement in the Central States area, and your employer contributed the required amount on your behalf, you could have drawn a pension from CSPF.

A buddy of mine, who worked at the same nonunion LTL as I did and roughly , as long, is nearing 62 years old and is thinking about retirement. If he does, he will have worked and saved under a 401-k plan for 25 years. I know for a fact and God is my witness, he could cash out that 401-k tomorrow and write you a check, for well over 3/4 of a million dollars. A regular guy, who never thought about college, has his retirement set, while the union guys ponzi pension fund needs the FED's to bail it out.
So much for the union pension scam.
 
A buddy of mine, who worked at the same nonunion LTL as I did and roughly , as long, is nearing 62 years old and is thinking about retirement. If he does, he will have worked and saved under a 401-k plan for 25 years. I know for a fact and God is my witness, he could cash out that 401-k tomorrow and write you a check, for well over 3/4 of a million dollars. A regular guy, who never thought about college, has his retirement set, while the union guys ponzi pension fund needs the FED's to bail it out.
So much for the union pension scam.
The thing I don't think you get is many union guys have saved for retirement (I know I have). I got hired into this job and it isn't like I had a choice about where the contribution is going. The federal government made the rules that the funds must follow, including that the fund can't be 100% funded, even though for years you could see the train wreck about to happen (with all the company bancruptcies) and the government who made the rules didn't change anything. Personally I would have been happy with a PBGC bailout (as the funds did pay for this insurance), but the Congress apparently thought differently.
 
Why can't I ask for and get free money, from the FED's. Your unsecured loan is about as binding as me wanting a check, isn't it.
I
If you think so, maybe you should contact the Feds and see what they say. You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue as I feel the government bears some responsibility for what happened with deregulation and oversight, and you obviously do not agree. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
 
Why can't I ask for and get free money, from the FED's. Your unsecured loan is about as binding as me wanting a check, isn't it.
I
I'm with Steward of the Rock, you and I will just have to disagree. But, if you really want to know if your correct, ask congress to fund your retirement. If you get the money, then great and I'm happy for you. If congress denies your claim, then you should consider that your answer.
 
If you think so, maybe you should contact the Feds and see what they say. You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue as I feel the government bears some responsibility for what happened with deregulation and oversight, and you obviously do not agree. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
In other words, the unions can't survive in a non regulated market. Good Lord, even in 1980, the unions needed the FED's to cook the books. The uber left president, Jimmy Carter, said no, when he signed the Motor Carrier Act into law.
 

In other words, the unions can't survive in a non regulated market. Good Lord, even in 1980, the unions needed the FED's to cook the books. The uber left president, Jimmy Carter, said no, when he signed the Motor Carrier Act into law.
You forgot to add he signed into law trucking and airline deregulation in an attempt to win the election that year....didnt go good for him...
 
In other words, the unions can't survive in a non regulated market. Good Lord, even in 1980, the unions needed the FED's to cook the books. The uber left president, Jimmy Carter, said no, when he signed the Motor Carrier Act into law.
You do realize that almost every industry is regulated right? Maybe you have a point though we should do away with all regulations...stock market...oh dont worry your 401k will be safe with those vultures...medical, insurance, they can all be trusted.....when they decided to deregulate the industry they did it so half assed that they didn't worry about driver pay, no OT, and the abuses that would come with it...nor did they worry about the MEPFs...we actually have a thread on here where people are mad because the company they work for is going to give them OT after 50....WTF....we have another thread where guys are skipping lunches so they can get back just before the 14 hour clock!!!! Deregulation has worked out just fine...Weak laws for drivers, combined with greed has been great. Yeah deregulation was good for the CEOs and shareholders not at all for us...
 
You do realize that almost every industry is regulated right? Maybe you have a point though we should do away with all regulations...stock market...oh dont worry your 401k will be safe with those vultures...medical, insurance, they can all be trusted.....when they decided to deregulate the industry they did it so half assed that they didn't worry about driver pay, no OT, and the abuses that would come with it...nor did they worry about the MEPFs...we actually have a thread on here where people are mad because the company they work for is going to give them OT after 50....WTF....we have another thread where guys are skipping lunches so they can get back just before the 14 hour clock!!!! Deregulation has worked out just fine...Weak laws for drivers, combined with greed has been great. Yeah deregulation was good for the CEOs and shareholders not at all for us...
Not to mention how deregulation ended up putting just about every unionized freight company out of business due to the fact that before deregulation, a company had to pay for territorial rights (by purchasing other companies for their territorial rights) to operate in that territory. After deregulation, all the start up, non-union freight companies could operate wherever they wanted. This made an unfair playing field for the union companies as they no longer had these territorial rights that they had paid for. Did the government correct this flaw in their government oversight? The answer is NO!!
Instead, they stood by and watched as hundreds of freight companies went bankrupt due to the unfair cost disadvantage created by deregulation. But at least the share holders and CEO's got theirs!!
(That last sentence was sarcasm. Heavy on the sarcasm!!!)
 
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