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POLITICS When Did Ukraine Become A 'critical Ally'?

Discussion in 'Washington D.C.' started by slavenomore, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. slavenomore

    slavenomore US Gov Hears Foreign Corps More Than Nonunions

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    Another perfect article summing up the Trump and Swamp positions on Ukraine.
    Another A+ column.
    https://buchanan.org/blog/when-did-ukraine-become-a-critical-ally-137762

    Despite dramatic depictions of Ukraine as our embattled ally, Ukraine has never been an ally. We are not now nor have we ever been obligated to fight for its sovereignty or territorial integrity. Efforts to bring Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia into NATO have been repeatedly rebuffed in the United States and by our European NATO allies.

    Kent and Taylor are honorable men. But they are career diplomats of the Department of State and veteran advocates of a foreign policy that sees Russia as an enduring aggressor and Ukraine as a fighting ally entitled to U.S. military assistance.

    They have, in the old phrase, gone native. They champion the policies of yesterday and the embattled countries to which they are accredited and to whose causes they have become converted.

    But Trump was elected to overturn the interventionist policies America has pursued since the century began. He was elected to end Cold War II with Russia, to reach a modus vivendi as Reagan did, and to extricate us from the endless wars into which Presidents Bush and Obama plunged the nation
     
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  2. Toby

    Toby Well-Known Member

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    They are a buffer in the European chess game. More important to the EU for various reasons and as Trump said the EU needs to step up.
     
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  3. Bubba74

    Bubba74 I live Here

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    This has nothing to do with Ukraine as an ally
    this has everything to do with tarnishing Trump before the 2020 election
    never has a president that has such a strong economy not been re-elected
    The Dems know this so they will continue to throw crap against the wall in hopes that something will stick

    You can literally substitution Ukraine for any other nation on earth as long as it fit the attempted narrative
    (plus, the left is profiting over there, dont want to kill the golden goose which is possible considering the 2016 election interference)
     
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  4. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    To answer your question sways away from the actual situation and has nothing to do with butthurt State Career Employees joining with the Democrat Coup de ta.

    The Freedom Loving Self Governing Cossacks settled the Ukraine area in the 1400s. Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, and Estonia are the nations most like Americans and those most closely trying to copy our US Constitution. Like Toby said- they are an important buffer against Russian agression. Foreign Policy SHOULD be determined by POTUS, and not lying career employees...

    Now- having said that- we elected Trump to upset the Power and make Government more accountable to our Citizens. I fully support him demanding investigations into where our taxpayer dollars disappeared!
     
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  5. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    Pat oversimplifies Ukraine. Russia and Germany have fought to control Ukraine for hundreds of years. It's oil, gas, grain and seaports are valuable. Russia bases its navy on Ukraine's Crimean port to the Black Sea. Ukraine is split politically between Freedom and Russian control.

    It's too complicated to go Democrat Russia Russia Russia. Its also too complicated to say abandon Ukraine or to befriend Russia. Russia is still our most dangerous enemy. Trump has done it about as well as can be done. He has put the strongest sanctions on Russia that any president has- and has simultaneously called for making Ukraine accountable. I can't ask for more.
     
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  6. Bubba74

    Bubba74 I live Here

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    makes you wonder why it wasnt?
     
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  7. coondogg

    coondogg Freight Herder

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    Obama was wrong. Romney was right.
     
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  8. Rastus

    Rastus ..MAGA.. AD-FREE USER

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    Don’t worry about Ukraine the un, NATO and Europe will handle it. :lmao:
     
  9. Rastus

    Rastus ..MAGA.. AD-FREE USER

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    I agree, I thought I was missing something.
     
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  10. coondogg

    coondogg Freight Herder

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    We used to support fledgling democracies. You know, we used to dig spreading freedom around the world.

    Oh well. MAGA.
     
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  11. Rastus

    Rastus ..MAGA.. AD-FREE USER

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    Like Iraq, oh well MAGA.
     
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  12. slavenomore

    slavenomore US Gov Hears Foreign Corps More Than Nonunions

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    We used to not be in debt either.
    No money....no can do anymore.
    When a company goes broke .....bankrupt......things change.....they must.
    That is the real world.
    Trillions in national debt means.....no more military used to defend others.....OUR BORDERS is what needs defending. For our people. And if we continue spending on others borders and problems and giving away our jobs and skills and industries to the world....we may not be able to defend our own borders.....millions have already come through pur borders illegally. Our people need defending.
     
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  13. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    This one is in between spreading Freedom (they already had that) and stopping Russia from enslaving them and moving on Poland and Europe.

    Its complicated, I know. What I also know is that the USAF Unit my Son spent 10 years in, is split right now, with 1/3 of their unit sitting in Incirlik Turkey, guarding 50 US nuclear warheads (The Media let out that number when Pence went there three weeks ago), and 1/3 of their unit in Poland. Wanna bet what they are guarding in Poland????

    Russia is only stopped from recreating ಠ▄ಠ's 1939 charge into Poland and Ukraine because the USA is there. Period. Like it or not, that's the way it is...
     
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  14. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    So, all this Ukraine stuff has me reading History. We really miss Bloseph for this stuff. Ukrainian Crimea was originally full of Tatars!!!!!!!!!!
    Who knew?????
    Crimean Tatars


    Further information: Tartary
    Not to be confused with Tatars.
    Crimean Tatars (Crimean Tatar: Qırımtatarlar or qırımlar) are a Turkic ethnic group and nation, who are indigenous people of Crimea and formed in the Crimean Peninsula during the 13th–17th centuries, primarily from Cumans that appeared in Crimea in the 10th century, with strong contributions from all the peoples who ever inhabited Crimea.[10] Since 2014 Crimean Tatars have been officially recognized as an indigenous people of Ukraine.[11] Crimean Tatars are considered as a national minority, not an indigenous people, by the Russian Federation.[12]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars#/search
     
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  15. slavenomore

    slavenomore US Gov Hears Foreign Corps More Than Nonunions

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    Feel free to pay the bills if it's important to you. Our nation really doesn't have the money for it.......austerity measures really aren't an attractive type system. And the world won't look up to us if they're ever imposed on us....nobody really wants us to fall....but history shows that nations and empires do fall......I don't think most would want to see it...but at this spending rate...can you see it not happening???? It WILL come if we continue on things unnecessary...and at our debt...most worldwide military actions should stop for our own good. It's not necessary ........if some feel we MUST.....PLEASE do so AFTER our debt is gone..........THAT would be a conservative plan.
     
  16. coondogg

    coondogg Freight Herder

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    The deficit this year is more than twice what it was in 2015.
     
  17. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    Its WAY TOO LATE to worry about our Debt Failing. It's already assured.
     
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  18. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    I'll take your word for it. I dont trust a system where raising things 4% (like Reagan did) is called a Cut (from Baselines calling for 7%)

    I call Trump Democrat Donald because he spends too much and is a Big Government Solutions type guy. I also know he Did Try to shut down the Government to get spending lower, and he was chastised horribly. So the blame pretty much goes to Congress. Just as the cutting credit goes to Congress in times when it actually happens.

    Also, in 2015, obama was pulling a DC Magic trick. Bush left barry a $469 billion deficit. Barry raised it to $1.6 trillion before it declined to $470 billion upon his leaving- and then he claimed he cut spending (that he inherited) by 1/3. Actually, he spent 3 times as much before cutting back to Bush's same old same old. He also blended the $897 billion Stimulis into his budget so he actually got it three years straight, by using Continuing Resolutions instead of Budgets. CRs simply continues the same spending as last year, and that last year contained the Stimulis... Barry's budgets typically were shot down 98-2 in the Senate, so it wasnt just Repubs that disliked his programs.
     
  19. coondogg

    coondogg Freight Herder

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    I take your point, but you can't cut taxes on the rich and claim it'll "pay for itself." Next year's deficit will be over $1 trillion. Why is it steadily increasing more than spending increases if the tax cut was going to pay for itself?

    My point is that "trickle down" is a lie. Republicans are just as responsible for the debt as Democrats.
     
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  20. coondogg

    coondogg Freight Herder

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    My other point in regard to the issue of foreign aid would be to ask why anyone would stand up for Trump holding back $400 million in aid to Ukraine to protect against Russian incursion and not criticize him for sending billions to help Saudi Arabia. The Congress voted on a bipartisan basis to quit supporting the Saudi's war in Yemen and he vetoed it.
     
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