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Yellow | Central States Buyout

nightshadow said:
You didn't miss anything, mustache or ft, you are 100% correct. We agree 100%. A previous post talked about $240 per week going into a 401K as it does into Central States. My point was that there is usually a service requirement to vest anything the employer contributes, see my previous post with some emphasis added.
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Usually that is right,I worked at a place 2 years before coming to RoadWay.Thier 401k was they matched 100% of the fisrt 5% you put in.Basically if you put in 5% of your check you doubled your money,plus it was 100% vested from day one.When I left I moved my money which was the 5% I put in and the 5% they put in (my money as I was 100% vested) into the Massmutual funds.
I think if there is any 401K stuff to come down this would be an excellent model to copy..
None of us actually knows what is going on with the pension talks.But the way I see it guys like me may take the biggest screwing here.I have less than 5 years in the teamsters therefore I am not vested and lets say BigR has paid $5300.00 into the fund for me well I will never see it as it helps out you vested folks.. Now here is where I am thinking you guys are crazy on this.If the buy out and it sures up the fund and all those vested get there respective pensions that is the way it should be..Ok now lets say they start a 401k similar to the one above,,well most of you vested guys get your pensions plus the free money on a 401k match.You all get the best of both where the pension contributions for me went to you Actually anyone in my position takes it in the shorts and those of you vested are the real winners here.
Something else to think about here an $65k to $95k a year job with a good 401k is still a darn good job.Not as good as one with a pension but a heck of alot better than being out of work and having to take a $40k to $50k a year job with a lousy 401k.. You guys vested in this pension have the most to gain here in a bad situation.Personally I would rather lose that $5300.00 (oh yeah I lost it but you vested guy's found it) paid in on me and still be able to make $65k to $95K a year.
And to any of you folks here who are relying on that pension as your only means of retirement income,with the dough we make here......Well shame on you for being greedy while you were young because lord knows you should have been able to rat-hole some cash somewhere.:hide: :hide:
 
TheBigR said:
I don't understand the debate. Start your own damn 401 K through the Teamsters, and a Roth IRA through any investment house and you'll have more money than you know what to do with when you retire. And ya know what, you still have a pension like I do and a couple hundred thou or more in your investment, which I'll never have to touch. Max out your contributions, pay yourself 1st. Sell the 40,000 pickup, start acting and living like your concerned for your future. It will be here before you know it. :1036316054:
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Does this mean I should sell my 2 boats, conversion van, and hot rod and buy a hybrid to get to and from work?:hysterical: :hysterical:
 
vwaggs said:
Haven't you guys heard of the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp? Its a government entity that takes over pensions, to make sure the vested members all recieve a similar portion of the money in the fund. No one would lose all their pension if YRC ever went belly up.
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Ask the UAL pilots about this wonderful governmental program. The PBGC penalized them all for retiring early since they all retired at age 60.

They were required to retire at 60 by the FAA.
 
Effective August 1, 2007 Yellow will pay in to our retirement fund $325.70 a week. What I am saying is that I believe we would be better off if that money went into a 401K. If you want to add money to your retirement, then that would be a perfect place to put it. That $325.70 a week is our money the same as the money I we earn in our paychecks. It was just allocated to the retirement fund in the bargaining agreement. If you have watched this industry in the last 20 years and trust anyone to stay in buisness for a long period of time you've got to be a little nuts. How many of you if they put that money into our checks every week would then feel confident enough to pay it into this fund for your retirement. I doubt many would. I'm a glass half full kind of a guy, but I know the difference between reality and wishfull thinking. Ask yourself this question. If you were to hire on with a company that had it's own single employer pension fund that totally depended on the success of that company for your benefits. Would you feel safe with it? That's basically what we have now with so many of the carriers that have gone out. If our company went out, the fund could never sustain such a hit.

As to the many points about putting our own money into other plans (IRA, mutuals, etc...). I do that also, but we should'nt have to. The only reason we do, is because we don't trust the retirement we are already paying for to be there entirely. I don't believe if we put all that money into a 401K that we would have the need to subsidize our retirement. I believe that our fund can be converted to a 401K fund without hurting anybody. Just my opinion. I might be wrong, but I don't think that I am.
 
Flattop said:
Effective August 1, 2007 Yellow will pay in to our retirement fund $325.70 a week. What I am saying is that I believe we would be better off if that money went into a 401K.
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I got this from your original post, that is why I mentioned the vesting requirement. This money contributed by Yellow would be an employer contribution. Your point about better performance in the 401K is probably correct, absent poor management.

If someone had to misfortune to ride several carriers down before they were vested, they could end up losing all the employer contributions with the 401Ks (one for each employer), something that does not happen with the Multiple Employer Pension so long as they get enough credits in the pension to vest.
 
nightshadow said:
I got this from your original post, that is why I mentioned the vesting requirement. This money contributed by Yellow would be an employer contribution. Your point about better performance in the 401K is probably correct, absent poor management.

If someone had to misfortune to ride several carriers down before they were vested, they could end up losing all the employer contributions with the 401Ks (one for each employer), something that does not happen with the Multiple Employer Pension so long as they get enough credits in the pension to vest.
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Your right about the multiple employer pension funds. The only problem with that is that it's not so "multiple" anymore. Your not going to be able to bounce around like you could before if you lose your job.
 
Re: the possible 401k plan.

I interviewed at SAIA a couple days ago and the linehaul boss said their 401k vests immediately. If you work there 6 months and quit, you get your contributions and the company contributions.

Obviously if SAIA can do this, so can all the other companies.

I lost my job with Penske in February after 3 years and 10 months. The company we hauled for refused to re-new their contract with Penske and I no longer had a job. From the 3 Penske retirement/savings plans I got $1400. If I had been there 5 years I would have gotten the entire $7400 Penske had put into my accounts.
 
xcornflake said:
Re: the possible 401k plan.

I interviewed at SAIA a couple days ago and the linehaul boss said their 401k vests immediately. If you work there 6 months and quit, you get your contributions and the company contributions.

Obviously if SAIA can do this, so can all the other companies.

I lost my job with Penske in February after 3 years and 10 months. The company we hauled for refused to re-new their contract with Penske and I no longer had a job. From the 3 Penske retirement/savings plans I got $1400. If I had been there 5 years I would have gotten the entire $7400 Penske had put into my accounts.
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The key word here is CAN. Nothing prevents an employer from offering immediate vesting. The code only specifies a maximum. The term for this is golden handcuffs. The purpose of a benefits package, in the eyes of most employers, is to attract and retain employees they want to keep. Losing things if you leave too soon encourages you to put up with more than you otherwise would.
 
Flattop said:
Effective August 1, 2007 Yellow will pay in to our retirement fund $325.70 a week. What I am saying is that I believe we would be better off if that money went into a 401K. If you want to add money to your retirement, then that would be a perfect place to put it. That $325.70 a week is our money the same as the money I we earn in our paychecks. It was just allocated to the retirement fund in the bargaining agreement. If you have watched this industry in the last 20 years and trust anyone to stay in buisness for a long period of time you've got to be a little nuts. How many of you if they put that money into our checks every week would then feel confident enough to pay it into this fund for your retirement. I doubt many would. I'm a glass half full kind of a guy, but I know the difference between reality and wishfull thinking. Ask yourself this question. If you were to hire on with a company that had it's own single employer pension fund that totally depended on the success of that company for your benefits. Would you feel safe with it? That's basically what we have now with so many of the carriers that have gone out. If our company went out, the fund could never sustain such a hit.

As to the many points about putting our own money into other plans (IRA, mutuals, etc...). I do that also, but we should'nt have to. The only reason we do, is because we don't trust the retirement we are already paying for to be there entirely. I don't believe if we put all that money into a 401K that we would have the need to subsidize our retirement. I believe that our fund can be converted to a 401K fund without hurting anybody. Just my opinion. I might be wrong, but I don't think that I am.
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If you think YRCW is going to put anywhere near that much into your 401K, your mistaken. Average matches for employers are in the neighborhood of 5-7%. Thats if you match that much from YOUR paycheck. Leave the pension alone and start your own investments. Thats what you would be doing in a 401 anyways.........
 
xcornflake, you said in your post you got $1400.00 for 3 yrs. 10 mos. & would have reived $7400.00 after 5 yrs? if you had put 5% & the company put 5% of $50000.00 that would equal $5000.00 a year, even if the company didn't contribute its still $2500.00 a year. My math says that "YOU" vested $7750.00 for that period of time, that's not company vested money. I can't see how that would be any better than what we have now.
 
zippersbs said:
xcornflake, you said in your post you got $1400.00 for 3 yrs. 10 mos. & would have reived $7400.00 after 5 yrs? if you had put 5% & the company put 5% of $50000.00 that would equal $5000.00 a year, even if the company didn't contribute its still $2500.00 a year. My math says that "YOU" vested $7750.00 for that period of time, that's not company vested money. I can't see how that would be any better than what we have now.
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I certainly was not trying to say it was a better deal. More of an explanation of how these deals usually work out. Employers save a bundle not paying into a defined benefit plan and then often don't have to pay out their part of the 401k contributions due to employee turnover.

I did not contribute any of my own $$ because I doubted the job would ever last 5 years and this would be the result. The $7400 figure was the amount Penske had put into my accounts while I worked there. When I lost the job thru no fault of my own they kept 81% of the $7400. In the end Penske had a retirement benefit cost of $30 a month for me while I was there.

I will say this, it was a great job and I was making $68k a year, working 4 days a week. I banked a lot of $$ during my time there.
 
TheBigR said:
If you think YRCW is going to put anywhere near that much into your 401K, your mistaken. Average matches for employers are in the neighborhood of 5-7%. Thats if you match that much from YOUR paycheck. Leave the pension alone and start your own investments. Thats what you would be doing in a 401 anyways.........
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How do you know that they would'nt put that much in to it? What do they care what fund they put the money into? The 401K plans at 5-7% are not negotiated plans. I guarantee you they would rather pay money into a fund that will be there for the employee to retire on, instead of one that can't be counted on. That's one of the reasons UPS has such a problem with our fund now.
 
I stand corrected! The weekly contributions to our pension fund is $170.00 for a full week of work. That is a big difference than $325.70. The $325.70 is for health and welfare. My mistake. Even though the numbers are different, I don't believe it changes the idea of a 401K. Thanks J.E jr for asking the question. It got me to look it up again.
 
Flattop said:
How do you know that they would'nt put that much in to it? What do they care what fund they put the money into? The 401K plans at 5-7% are not negotiated plans. I guarantee you they would rather pay money into a fund that will be there for the employee to retire on, instead of one that can't be counted on. That's one of the reasons UPS has such a problem with our fund now.
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Name me one company on the planet earth that contributes more than a 10% match.
 
You tell me why they would'nt pay the same $170.00 a week into a 401K. Most companies are non-union and don't have an obligation to pay any more than they want to. I don't see a difference to the company as to where they pay the money.
 
Flattop said:
You tell me why they would'nt pay the same $170.00 a week into a 401K. Most companies are non-union and don't have an obligation to pay any more than they want to. I don't see a difference to the company as to where they pay the money.
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Flattop, I like you cuz your a Teamster, but, I don't know how to splain it other than they are gonna through in your face every chart and table in the world that will show you how your gonna have a gazillion dollars in your "own" 401 k, with them matching at 100% the 1st 6% of your contribution, 50% of the next 3%, and on and on and on. They're gonna cry poverty and show you how their numbers are good for you. The young guys will be amazed at the figures of million dollar "projections" as compared to the 4500 you get in NY or the 3000 you get in Cen Sts. Ask the guys in Pa what the #'s were on their accounts, I don't recall the name of them but I'm sure Serta and some others will chime in. I wish you nothing but success in what ever they do, but ya better do your homework on this one...........PS I'll be the 1st to scream when my 4500 after tax Teamster pension check doesn't show up.:1036316054:
 
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