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Yellow | Pension or 401K?

Triplex said:
Dokman, you're over complicating a simple concept. Cash flow is either cash or equivalents coming in or cash or equivalents going out. Net cash flow is cash in minus cash out, period. It has nothing to do with assets behind the scenes. As EX396 has stated it, you can be quite wealthy with assets but have negative net cash flow, or your can be asset light with positive net cash flow. Yellow was cash poor, i.e., they lacked sufficient cash on hand (liquidity) to pay their current obligations. They did however have sizeable wealth tied up in real estate, equipment, etc. as we're seeing in the BK.
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Yellow was cash poor and had negative cash flow. You guys are over complicating it. They became “cash poor” from always having negative cash flow and look what happened.
Don’t care if you are starting out or in retirement if you don’t have enough money coming in to put back for later, you will always be paycheck to paycheck and eventually in over your head. I think I have a very good grasp on cash flow thanks for trying I plan to stick with the motto, “spend less than you have and you will have more than you need someday.”
 
dokman said:
Your scenario is a little off. First couple is at 1.75 mil not 2 mil which is an 14% over exaggeration
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I said approaching $2M.

500 k in house is not liquid assets like cash or investments.
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Net worth has nothing to do with how liquid (or non-liquid) an asset might be.

Roth IRA’s do not have a RMD requirement.
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I was listing assets and income, I didn't say the RMD came from their ROTH-IRA. Nor did I list their age or how little income is from the RMD.

Yellow had way more assets than debt so why did they go BK.
NOT ENOUGH CASH FLOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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They filed BK because they wanted to. They could have sold assets, paid off all the debt obligations, leased back equipment and properties where they still wanted to operate. Instead they said screw it, the juice was no longer worth the squeeze.[/QUOTE]
 
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dokman said:
Agreed but too many people operate in the negative too long and over extend themselves.
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True. But that again, is a people problem and not an operating-in-the-negative-too-long problem. Just because you're "cash flow negative" doesn't mean you're broke which is the statement I am arguing against. It's an absurd blanket statement. Pretty certain I could be cash flow negative at least 27 cents a week for the rest of my life and not die broke. ;)
 
EX396 said:
True. But that again, is a people problem and not an operating-in-the-negative-too-long problem. Just because you're "cash flow negative" doesn't mean you're broke which is the statement I am arguing against. It's an absurd blanket statement. Pretty certain I could be cash flow negative at least 27 cents a week for the rest of my life and not die broke. ;)
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If you do “it’s a people problem” ,interesting concept.
 
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Some of the writings I see here indicate people are happy to just comcheck it if payday did not arrive. Or perhaps just charge it worry about it next month while wrestling with tonnage in financial mess on no money. Its bullshit. (No offense to the people who operate in a negative cash situation every week or month etc)

One of the biggest things Ive had to do was turn away from credit cards. This is my 7th year since. I settled with two big dangerous creditors representing five original banks that have the power to seriously derail me into the future. One of those was student loans. All paid for poof gone. All gone.

My credit report later this year will simply show the settled paid in full and the rest of it is blank no history.

I also opted out new credit card offers for five years. That stopped the predatory mailings.

I discovered bank card limitations and would be putting up a thousand dollars for a secured pure credit card against that scenario in important medical or financial situations where my bank declines my :shit:ty card. Bypass them entirely.

I get 10.00, spend maybe 4 in bills, two in keeping myself functional and the rest go into savings of some kind against next month. Which eventually becomes one month ahead. Then two months ahead then three then four. After a year ahead I no longer give a ::shit:: about the money and bills provided everything is in order.

Alot better than begging comchecks, hitting relatives for cash or mouthing excuses to your demanding petulant bill collectors, landlord and tax man etc.

Its not much. Getting out of the Racket that is America today is really important.

A tip. When collections spam you letters pay us now with veiled threats etc... just wait a couple of years. One day a letter will offer you 10% on the total debt if you paid in 30 days. Do that instantly with a cashiers check etc drawn on your bank.

Medical bills? 10% value of total first check then wait. It will take a while for that check to clear your banking as they wait on you to call to arrange payments. DO NOT CALL. YOU Wait. Next set of bills come in pay 10% face value and wait a few months while stacking cash. Do not stop or you will get sued into oblivion.
 
EX396 said:
Personal responsibility is an "interesting concept" to you?
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I guess I haven’t figured that out. Maybe that is why I am debt free, oldest vehicle is 6 years old, have been saving for retirement long enough that my investments will outlast my lifetime per 2 different financial advisors. So in my spare time I will work on that personal responsibility you speak of. Oh and by the way I have no degree in finance or management or consulting, just a blue collar truck driver.
Thank you for your concern.
 
dokman said:
I guess I haven’t figured that out. Maybe that is why I am debt free, oldest vehicle is 6 years old, have been saving for retirement long enough that my investments will outlast my lifetime per 2 different financial advisors. So in my spare time I will work on that personal responsibility you speak of. Oh and by the way I have no degree in finance or management or consulting, just a blue collar truck driver.
Thank you for your concern.
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There's a distinction to be made between personal responsibility being an "interesting concept" (your words) and a "foreign concept" which is what you appear to believe I was suggesting responsibility was to you. I guess you decided the question mark at the end of my question didn't mean anything.

This is probably the part where you expect me to reply with my c.v. and a net worth statement. Don't hold your breath.

Lastly, avoid prefacing what you do/did for a living with "just". It needlessly diminishes the value of you career and others who chose the same path.
 
EX396 said:
There's a distinction to be made between personal responsibility being an "interesting concept" (your words) and a "foreign concept" which is what you appear to believe I was suggesting responsibility was to you. I guess you decided the question mark at the end of my question didn't mean anything.

This is probably the part where you expect me to reply with my c.v. and a net worth statement. Don't hold your breath.

Lastly, avoid prefacing what you do/did for a living with "just". It needlessly diminishes the value of you career and others who chose the same path.
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Don’t care what your c v is or net worth, none of my business nor did I bait you with the intention to disclose.
I simply stated I have personal responsibility and discipline to provide for myself and family. I think some preach and can’t practice the topic they discuss. I wanted you to be aware that I am capable of financial independence with out some fancy degree or job title. And I am not ashamed of what I do as a career, every day my results can be measured. Some people with fancy titles or degrees can’t say that. So I don’t feel saying “just” is bad. An honest day’s work is nothing to be ashamed of is it.?
 
dokman said:
I simply stated I have personal responsibility and discipline to provide for myself and family. I think some preach and can’t practice the topic they discuss. I wanted you to be aware that I am capable of financial independence with out some fancy degree or job title.
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I didn't question your situation. I questioned your comment about personal responsibility being an interesting concept.

So I don’t feel saying “just” is bad. An honest day’s work is nothing to be ashamed of is it.?
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Ashamed of? No. Proud of? Yes. I am a blue collar truck driver vs. I'm just a blue collar truck driver.
 
EX396 said:
I didn't question your situation. I questioned your comment about personal responsibility being an interesting concept.



Ashamed of? No. Proud of? Yes. I am a blue collar truck driver vs. I'm just a blue collar truck driver.
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I believe I referred to your comment of “people problem “.
That’s like management referring to employees as “human capital “
Makes it very in personal.
 
EX396 said:
I didn't question your situation. I questioned your comment about personal responsibility being an interesting concept.



Ashamed of? No. Proud of? Yes. I am a blue collar truck driver vs. I'm just a blue collar truck driver.
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I don't know about you, but I've never been a blue-collar truck driver. A lot of different color collars, but never blue. I also have a standard response for anybody who thinks they're better than us. It says: "I'm the guy who makes sure that when you go to the store, there's something there for you to buy". That usually tames the most arrogant dweebs. Of course, I also have many years of college and several degrees (yep, I'm one of those guys) so I gently explain as needed: we don't say "giddy-up" and "whoa"; we say "accelerate" and "decelerate" or some derivative thereof.
 
dokman said:
I believe I referred to your comment of “people problem “.
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I see how I was misinterpreted.

You said "too many people operate in the negative too long and over extend themselves".

So in response I chose the word "people" to identify who's at fault for the situation. My argument would have been better understood if I chose to just say "over-extending themselves for too long is a personal behavior problem".
 
Real Teamster said:
I don't know about you, but I've never been a blue-collar truck driver. A lot of different color collars, but never blue. I also have a standard response for anybody who thinks they're better than us. It says: "I'm the guy who makes sure that when you go to the store, there's something there for you to buy". That usually tames the most arrogant dweebs. Of course, I also have many years of college and several degrees (yep, I'm one of those guys) so I gently explain as needed: we don't say "giddy-up" and "whoa"; we say "accelerate" and "decelerate" or some derivative thereof.
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Nothing wrong with collars of blue, saying giddy-up or whoa.
 
Real Teamster said:
<snip> Of course, I also have many years of college and several degrees (yep, I'm one of those guys) so I gently explain as needed: we don't say "giddy-up" and "whoa"; we say "accelerate" and "decelerate" or some derivative thereof.
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I have 72 degrees right now so I turned my thermostat down for a while. :smile new:
 
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