Second Day of Truck Driving School and a question

[MikeJ]

Hi everyone,
Sunday was my second day of truck driving school, over all the day was fine, no recruiters came in so that was good and we learned some stuff. The one thing I am concerned about is backing and shifting. I have until April before I have to take my CDL test so I have all kinds of time. The weekend class I am in is kind of big and I have an option to move into full time weekday class.

Any how here goes my debacle the instructor kind of hinted that the school I go to does not do the best job of teaching how to shift. He said the truck that the school has parked down at the CDL testing yard is an automatic and they have an automatic on purpose, because they feel you are under enough stress taking the CDL road test as it is and you do not need the trouble of having to shift. Okay that's nice and fine I'll give them that one. Now every truck they have on the yard and every truck they have on the road is a regular manual transmission truck. The problem is because you are in an automatic for the actual CDL test they probably feel and when I say they I mean the schools administration not the instructors them selves in fact our guy said flat out the school should spend more time on shifting, the problem is though if you get in a big class like I am in and 12 people have to drive the same truck, how much wheel time do you really get? That's right you get the bare minimum of what ever the state says and because the school is testing you in an automatic and because Maverick, US Express, Stevens and sometimes Sysco are switching over to automatic's which by the way 10 years from now we won't even be having this conversation I see all the big name brand fleets eventually switching to automatics it is going to happen some may hold out longer then others, but eventually they are all going to be automatics it's going to happen. Plus the school probably figures so the kids can't shift it doesn't matter let the trainer at there company teach them how to shift, let the kids tear up Werner's equipment hell, they have some many Tom's, Dick's and Harry's coming through Werner they should be used to people experimenting and tearing up their equipment.

However we are not there yet and I need to learn how to shift proficiently. I am going to ask my instructor very nicely and diplomatically next weekend what I should do if I should switch classes or just accept the fact that school is not going to be able to teach shifting good enough and go else where to learn how to shift. That doesn't mean drop out of school, but what it means is pay someone else to teach me and only me 1 on 1 how to shift and while were at it mine as well practice backing, now I know that is kind of BS and I should not have to do that, but you should have seen the hoops I had to jump through to get my associates degree, this isn't anything compared to that. All these schools will fail you one way or another. There is stuff they do well there is stuff that they do not do well.

The way I see it I have 12 weeks until it's time to take the CDL test
That means next 2-3 weeks every afternoon when I am done with work the way I see it I should be in the yard for 2-3 weeks doing nothing, but pre trip- shifting and straight line backing 3 hours a day 4 days a week.
Then for 4 weeks 4 days a week 3 hours a day I should be doing nothing, but pre trip, shifting and alley dock backing.
Then for 5 weeks 4 days a week 3 hours a day I should be doing nothing, but shifting, pre trip and blind side backing.

That would take up the next 12 weeks and I think give me at least a good base to start out with. Look I know trucking school kind of blows and it's kind of a screw deal because time is limited and these schools really just give you the bare minimum to pass the CDL test and a lot of these schools have bad reputations. I feel though the instructors at my school mean well and I think personally there are things in the curriculum they would like to see changed, but these school administrators it's all about the $$$.

I kind of knew I was getting screwed going to truck driving school maybe not totally screwed, but I knew they would fail somewhere, however that is all nickles holding up a dollar the CDL and a job are what counts trucking school is only 12 weeks and when it's over were never going back, so it's more of a head down and get through it and if I have to go around the school and outside of the school to obtain the proper-training that I need then that is what I am going to do. Even if I have to shell out $1,000 to some farmer or owner operator or someone I still got an okay deal and I got trained the way I wanted to get trained. However I will raise my concerns because right now that is all it is it is just a concern, it's not a problem, because who knows maybe I can transfer to a full time class or the instructor might realize that I am very serious and make some kind of amends. It's only a concern and I need to let the school address my concern. I am the customer one who paid in full, they need to make me happy and I need to give them a chance to do so. However I am not afraid to go out side of the school to get the training I need to be the best that I can be.

 

[a9faninnc]

I never went through a truck driving school.I started out working a dock for a LTL carrier and worked my way to enter their driver training,which was 1 on 1 training,while getting paid to do so.To me,that was the best way to learn.

Cant offer much advice on the route you took,though I will say,you will learn way more on your own than you will in any school.Also,working the city for an LTL will certainly give you the backing experience youre seeking.It sounds like you have some good ideas,on how to improve your endeavor.Good luck.

 

[grocerythrower]

Mike, make sure you take your CDL road test in a truck with a manual transmission, if you take it in an auto shift you will have an automatic restriction, that limits your possibilities.

 

[Lazlo]

How I learned to shift:
1st day in a Coke truck with a permit (after a few years as a merchandiser) stuck in between gears in a major intersection of a busy suburb (through several light changes and much honking) while a guy named Harry sat in the passenger seat laughing his a** off. Good times.
The hardest part for me at first was keeping track of whether I was on the high or low side, other than that it just takes practice and is a matter of timing but once you get it you've got it.
Being able to back just good enough to pass the test is pretty standard, you can back in a parking lot all day but like a9faninnc said your best practice will come on the job.

 

[MikeJ]

I never went through a truck driving school.I started out working a dock for a LTL carrier and worked my way to enter their driver training,which was 1 on 1 training,while getting paid to do so.To me,that was the best way to learn.

Cant offer much advice on the route you took,though I will say,you will learn way more on your own than you will in any school.Also,working the city for an LTL will certainly give you the backing experience youre seeking.It sounds like you have some good ideas,on how to improve your endeavor.Good luck.

You know you are right, my dad never went to school, some farmer or someone taught him how to do it and he passed the CDL test, that was 25 years ago, and my dad doesn't truck any more and hasn't for a while. I thought about going down to the Estes Terminal they have a sing in the front yard that says mechanics and dock workers wanted and applying for a dock workers position and seeing if maybe they are willing to supplement my training. The worst they can say is no. You know I'll work the dock, I worked in a job shop so I have some very minor fork lift experience, which I mean there going to teach you their way any how, so that is how that goes. Then maybe they will let me move trailers around the yard and have one of the people who breaks in new people teach me if not that's fine too.

I have mixed feelings about truck driving school, really I have no animosity towards the school it's self the instructors are good people and they do seem to want to teach you right. I know that school cannot teach you everything and like daffy duck once said "You never know where you are going till you get there." You can only do so much homework, and at the end of the day you know, so it cost me $7,000 (it didn't really cost me $7,000.) to go to school, yeah that's a little bit of money, but even you know say all of the LTL outfits where I live decides no we do not train at all or they just for what ever reason do not hire me, and I said well being an indentured servant to one of the mcmega carriers to get training isn't really the deal it's cracked up to be either, so at that point it's well, lets go to school and get our license and get schools little certificate which probably doesn't mean a whole lot, but they give it to you any how so mine as well take it and then you know at least with my CDL and little rubber stamp of approval from the school I am a shoe in at Werner, Schneider, Martin, Rohel and the rest and figure I'll learn how to shift working at Werner or Crete. I mean to be fair not all the big OTR truck load carriers are fire and brim stone, I know Werner's refrigerated division is fairly decent the trailers and refers are a little older, but it's mostly Sara Lee and General Mills and a fair amount of drop and hook and a lot of the same places every time, that's what I read and have heard from others as well. I also have heard some nice things about Rohel, I heard that the flat bed division at Rohel is fairly busy, so I know it, is what it is.

 

[a9faninnc]

I work for Estes and I know for a fact they have a training program.It may take a year or so and some hard work on the dock,but I think that is your best route,with any company..

 

[MikeJ]

How I learned to shift:
1st day in a Coke truck with a permit (after a few years as a merchandiser) stuck in between gears in a major intersection of a busy suburb (through several light changes and much honking) while a guy named Harry sat in the passenger seat laughing his a** off. Good times.
The hardest part for me at first was keeping track of whether I was on the high or low side, other than that it just takes practice and is a matter of timing but once you get it you've got it.
Being able to back just good enough to pass the test is pretty standard, you can back in a parking lot all day but like a9faninnc said your best practice will come on the job.

That will be me ha-ha stuck in the middle of an intersection trying to figure it out, I see it coming and it can't be avoided.

 

[MikeJ]

Mike, make sure you take your CDL road test in a truck with a manual transmission, if you take it in an auto shift you will have an automatic restriction, that limits your possibilities.

That was a concern that was brought up by the entire class yesterday, exactly what you just said the minute the instructor said we test in an automatic.

Here is the rule:
FMCSA’s final rule is effective July 9. States must be in compliance by July 8, 2014.
To read the final rule, go to www.regulations.gov; the docket number is FMCSA-2007-27659.

I guess as of right now it is still up to the states, Ohio does not have an automatic restriction so we can test in an automatic and not get a restriction put on our license. The law in Ohio though has changed as of late last year Ohio said that all CDL testing must be done in a manual truck, but Ohio has not yet put that law into effect yet because they do not have to so they are probably not going to until they have to. The instructor said Ohio keeps pushing the manual test law back. However according to the FMCSA section 383.95 if you test in an automatic you can only drive an automatic, so you are 100% right that is here, it's just the states do not have to comply just yet. You would know better then me you may have that kind of restriction on the books and enacted in Oklahoma already some states do, it is very goofy between the federal laws and the state laws.

Look the bottom line is shifting is important and regardless of what the rules are manual transmission are still here and it will be a while until the automatics fully take over.

 

[MikeJ]

I work for Estes and I know for a fact they have a training program.It may take a year or so and some hard work on the dock,but I think that is your best route,with any company..

I will be near the Estes terminal tomorrow, I got into this because I wanted to work for one of the food companies, which is why I hangout over here on the food service side of the forum. I work at a small job shop and once in a while we send and receive shipments only a pallet or two with Estes. I actually shipped a pallet load of toilet paper (don't ask) from Cleveland to Corpus Christi, Texas the year before last with Estes. They got it there pretty quick and on time. The driver who picked up the pallet was real nice and said he like working at Estes, said he worked at Conway first and did not like them, but he switched to Estes and said they were fine.

 

[grocerythrower]

That was a concern that was brought up by the entire class yesterday, exactly what you just said the minute the instructor said we test in an automatic.

Here is the rule:
FMCSA’s final rule is effective July 9. States must be in compliance by July 8, 2014.
To read the final rule, go to www.regulations.gov; the docket number is FMCSA-2007-27659.

I guess as of right now it is still up to the states, Ohio does not have an automatic restriction so we can test in an automatic and not get a restriction put on our license. The law in Ohio though has changed as of late last year Ohio said that all CDL testing must be done in a manual truck, but Ohio has not yet put that law into effect yet because they do not have to so they are probably not going to until they have to. The instructor said Ohio keeps pushing the manual test law back. However according to the FMCSA section 383.95 if you test in an automatic you can only drive an automatic, so you are 100% right that is here, it's just the states do not have to comply just yet. You would know better then me you may have that kind of restriction on the books and enacted in Oklahoma already some states do, it is very goofy between the federal laws and the state laws.

Look the bottom line is shifting is important and regardless of what the rules are manual transmission are still here and it will be a while until the automatics fully take over.

OK is like that Mike, test in an auto shift, you get the restriction, we have a couple to many at Sysco, they have to have special trucks and its annoying.

 

[MikeJ]

OK is like that Mike, test in an auto shift, you get the restriction, we have a couple to many at Sysco, they have to have special trucks and its annoying.

You know the whole thing is kind of goofy between the Federal Laws and the State Laws and the Federal Laws trumping state laws, really I mean the way the country is going and how the Federal Government is heck bent on taking over everything, they mine as well, just say look here is the Federal CDL Testing Facility, Your truck driving school has to be Federally Licensed not State and you get a Federal one size fits all CDL no my Ohio CDL doesn't have that, but your Oklahoma CDL does none of that cut all of that out and here it is you go to the school that carries a Federal License, you take a Federal Test and get your Federal CDL . Instead of every state having different laws and different BMV rules just say all CDL's are federally issued there is no longer a State issued CDL, if you want to drive a big box truck, big bus or truck you get a Federal CDL.

Look I am not saying that would make any thing easier or even better I am not even contradictory to what it sounds advocating this, because what I just described is boarder line communism. Personally though I think it should be here are the rules all people must test in a manual truck period end of discussion. Heck that's how I thought it was, I didn't even think to ask, now granted because my state doesn't give restrictions like that it's a non issue for right now and I don't plan on moving out of Ohio for at least the next 12 months I would like to stay here but sometimes you have to move where the work is, but on the other token I do not plan on going to any auto shift fleets, so if I have to retest for what ever reason to get the restriction removed I will know how to do it and I'll just take that states CDL test.

That's another thing too say I live in Oklahoma and I have that restriction, but work at like Sysco so I know how to corner and back real well, but not shift do I then have to pay $1,000 bucks go to some truck driving school's manual transmission course go through that course, then go down to the CDL testing yard and take another CDL test to get the restriction removed?

That's another thing to, I guess as market forces dictate, but I mean I would never expect Sysco Cleveland to buy a special truck just so I can work their. No I need to learn how to work their equipment, not them buy equipment for me, I mean Sysco is the largest food distributor in North America, I would figure they know their business, so they are going to speck their trucks and trailers to what suites them the best. I mean they may have some thought as to creature comforts sure, but over all they are going to buy trucks and trailers that are best suited to making their business money.

 

[Moneyman01]

I hate automatic trucks. They really suck in the winter time. I live in MN and I do not want to have another automatic. Good luck mike. You know what's going on. If you can go to estes and do there training program. I know a couple drivers that went thru it

 

[Deleted member 5115]

I'm thinking that you're too worried about shifting. It's not that hard but it will take a little bit of time to get used to it.
Here's a quick lesson:
1) Clutch is only used when you stop or get stuck overrevved and need to get out of gear.
2) Winder 'er up 'til the governor is about to kick in, yank it out of gear while letting up on the fuel peddle, let the revs drop a few and put 'er into the next one.
3) If the RPMs drop too much goose 'em a little 'til they match and it will go in.
4) If you're early in pulling or pushing into next gear just let 'em grind a sec and all will sync and it'll pop right it.
5) If you're not sure if your too slow or too revved when it won't go into gear let 'em sink a sec and see if the grinding gets worse or better, go from there.

I'll never forget my first day in a five speed Mack. Ground every gear for the first hour and a half and figured out I had to let the revs drop waaayyyy more for the next gear.

 

[MikeJ]

I'm thinking that you're too worried about shifting. It's not that hard but it will take a little bit of time to get used to it.
Here's a quick lesson:
1) Clutch is only used when you stop or get stuck overrevved and need to get out of gear.
2) Winder 'er up 'til the governor is about to kick in, yank it out of gear while letting up on the fuel peddle, let the revs drop a few and put 'er into the next one.
3) If the RPMs drop too much goose 'em a little 'til they match and it will go in.
4) If you're early in pulling or pushing into next gear just let 'em grind a sec and all will sync and it'll pop right it.
5) If you're not sure if your too slow or too revved when it won't go into gear let 'em sink a sec and see if the grinding gets worse or better, go from there.

I'll never forget my first day in a five speed Mack. Ground every gear for the first hour and a half and figured out I had to let the revs drop waaayyyy more for the next gear.

Thanks I appreciate that, a gentleman I know worked at Werner and he said once your out of school you do very little if any double clutch. He said the minute he was out on the road with the trainer it was all gear floating and he said the same thing you guys are, after a short time the shifting was not really that big of a deal at all and was pretty much a none issue. He said the same thing, let them teach you how to shift, do it their way in school and then let the trainer where ever you go show you what's up you will get it and he said the same thing after a while it was no big deal.
Really I don't hear to many people talking about shifting, so that is a good thing.