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TForce | Why isn't UPS Freight making more money? Loss leader pricing.

Triplex said:
The issues I've always had with Teamsters voting for reduced pay for new hires are these:
1) The people voting are deciding on something which doesn't affect them.
2) The people affected by the reduced pay didn't get to vote on it.
How can that be a democratic (lower case "d") way to decide things?

On another note, I learned a long time ago - A worker is only worth what someone else will accept for doing the same job.
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Well put. I concur...
 
Triplex said:
The issues I've always had with Teamsters voting for reduced pay for new hires are these:
1) The people voting are deciding on something which doesn't affect them.
2) The people affected by the reduced pay didn't get to vote on it.
How can that be a democratic (lower case "d") way to decide things?

On another note, I learned a long time ago - A worker is only worth what someone else will accept for doing the same job.
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Everyone takes the job by their own free will. You don't like the pay and benefits? You can move on. Free will, it's a beautiful thing.
 
What is don't understand is if the contract was so favorable to UPS why didn't they make $$$
Something is missing.
I'm sticking to my theory stated above..
 
Puff Driver said:
What is don't understand is if the contract was so favorable to UPS why didn't they make $$$
Something is missing.
I'm sticking to my theory stated above..
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Because they gave away the services at ups freight at a loss to their best small package customers.
Small package customer sends and spends all their business and money at parcel, then ups gives them ltl services for a loss.
Understand?
 
No port said:
Everyone takes the job by their own free will. You don't like the pay and benefits? You can move on. Free will, it's a beautiful thing.
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And ppl are moving on. It’s why y’all can’t hire enough to move the freight. Talked to a guy that od let go who hired on at yrc. He talked about how much less he brings home and how much his work hours changed. Would go back to od if he could
 
LTLIndentured said:
And ppl are moving on. It’s why y’all can’t hire enough to move the freight. Talked to a guy that od let go who hired on at yrc. He talked about how much less he brings home and how much his work hours changed. Would go back to od if he could
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You're on the wrong forum. This isn't YRC.
 
Wasn’t his choice. I listened to his story and understood why. It’s no ones fault. He just timed out at OD. My company does same thing. Sefl gives drivers 6 months and a day to get healthy. That’s a good reason to have a union. When you return from an illness you still have have a job
 
No port said:
Because they gave away the services at ups freight at a loss to their best small package customers.
Small package customer sends and spends all their business and money at parcel, then ups gives them ltl services for a loss.
Understand
Click to expand...
No port said:
Because they gave away the services at ups freight at a loss to their best small package customers.
Small package customer sends and spends all their business and money at parcel, then ups gives them ltl services for a loss.
Understand?
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Interesting how union carriers never seem to make a good profit???
Starting to look like a pattern.....
 
No port said:
You're on the wrong forum. This isn't YRC.
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Ok. Does this mean you don’t want to chat with me?
Puff Driver said:
Interesting how union carriers never seem to make a good profit???
Starting to look like a pattern.....
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factually incorrect. Abf is still turning a profit. Upsf we are learning wasn’t created to turn a profit but to enhance small pack. Yrc used to be separate companies, some profitable, some not. Holland was a money maker until yellow bought them which leads one to conclude yrc struggles from mismanagement and a restrictive contract. When I say restrictive I’m not referring to compensation; I’m referring to inflexibility in a constantly changing ltl environment.
bottom line: your generalizations lack merit. Get specific and back up your sssertions with more than your opinion
 
LTLIndentured said:
Ok. Does this mean you don’t want to chat with me?

factually incorrect. Abf is still turning a profit. Upsf we are learning wasn’t created to turn a profit but to enhance small pack. Yrc used to be separate companies, some profitable, some not. Holland was a money maker until yellow bought them which leads one to conclude yrc struggles from mismanagement and a restrictive contract. When I say restrictive I’m not referring to compensation; I’m referring to inflexibility in a constantly changing ltl environment.
bottom line: your generalizations lack merit. Get specific and back up your sssertions with more than your opinion
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Results of a quick Bing search. Specific enough?

There have been more than 600 union-trucking company bankruptcies and closings since the Motor Carrier Act of 1980, eliminating more than 500,000 Teamsters from the freight industry. Today the Teamsters have fewer than 70,000 Teamsters in the freight sector, mostly at financially ailing long-haul LTL carriers YRC Corp. and ABF Freight System.
 
Razorblade said:
Results of a quick Bing search. Specific enough?

There have been more than 600 union-trucking company bankruptcies and closings since the Motor Carrier Act of 1980, eliminating more than 500,000 Teamsters from the freight industry. Today the Teamsters have fewer than 70,000 Teamsters in the freight sector, mostly at financially ailing long-haul LTL carriers YRC Corp. and ABF Freight System.
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Love how you don’t specifically address the points I laid out but rather came up with your own arguement to change the narrative. I challenge your facts about abf being in trouble financially. Not specific enough smart aleck.
 
Razorblade said:
Someone has and is putting the pieces together. 20 years ago this month FedEx, a small package carrier, bought American Freightways. Now FedEx is the largest ltl carrier in the country and is still growing market share and profits. Powerhouse ltl carriers are not compatible with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. Freight is not a stable business. Freight levels vary wildly from day to day, week to week and month to month. Union rules and contracts do not allow the flexibility necessary to compete in a deregulated, free market economy.
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I guess you never read ups freight contracts?? It's very favorable for the employer
 
The nmfa is not a relevant argument against being in a union. Deregulation destroyed the tenants of union trucking. That was 40 years ago. Workers today aren't even close to the caliber of the men who built the unions in the early 20th century.
 
Razorblade said:
Someone has and is putting the pieces together. 20 years ago this month FedEx, a small package carrier, bought American Freightways. Now FedEx is the largest ltl carrier in the country and is still growing market share and profits. Powerhouse ltl carriers are not compatible with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. Freight is not a stable business. Freight levels vary wildly from day to day, week to week and month to month. Union rules and contracts do not allow the flexibility necessary to compete in a deregulated, free market economy.
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And UPS small package Kicks Freds ass EVERY YEAR
 
To start, if TFI wants to make money they will have to review the entire freight business. They will have to get rid of the residential freight to it's final mile division and do an assessment of current customer rates and the profitability of all freight lanes.
This could be done in a few months and begin to renegotiate and raise the rates. The problem is TFI can raise the rates but if the lanes are not as fast as every other carrier including next day service, we won't grow. If customers are willing to accept the rate increase, they won't accept poor freight handling and damages as in the past. They are going to expect a superior carrier than UPSF gave them. Being Union isn't the problem. Mismanagement and some of labor's lack of ownership and responsibility is the problem. There's a reason ODFL is winning every logistics award, building terminals, adding more equipment and personnel while gaining inroads into many customers. They also have the highest rates in LTL industry. How could they be doing this in such a competitive market? We know that there is no OT, but they pay competitive driver and dock wages. There medical is modestly comparable, etc, etc. The answer....they take care of the customer! Bottom line! Say what you will, but they are the movers and shakers in LTL right now. If we do our jobs, maybe in a few, we'll be the darlings of the freight industry and Union too boot! If not, we'll be in TB's Boneyard post.
 
LTLIndentured said:
Ok. Does this mean you don’t want to chat with me?

factually incorrect. Abf is still turning a profit. Upsf we are learning wasn’t created to turn a profit but to enhance small pack. Yrc used to be separate companies, some profitable, some not. Holland was a money maker until yellow bought them which leads one to conclude yrc struggles from mismanagement and a restrictive contract. When I say restrictive I’m not referring to compensation; I’m referring to inflexibility in a constantly changing ltl environment.
bottom line: your generalizations lack merit. Get specific and back up your sssertions with more than your opinion
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I am not sure of how profitable ABF actually is from traditional LTL, Seems like you are combing through the details I do not. I am aware of some non asset and non traditional LTL business they move. However, I will show you a short list of unsuccessful union carriers for you convenience:
CF, St Johnsbury, Hemmingway, Churchill, Red Star, System 99, Milne, CCC, Nations Way, APA, Branch, Mason-Dixon, McLean, Boss-Linco, Maslin, Pilot, Spector, Eastern/Associated, Holmes, Sanborn, Highway Express, Lyons, Stott & Davis, Cooper- Jarrett, NEMF, Bilkay's, Schuster, Beacon, North Penn, Penn Yan, Quinn, Oneida and the list goes on.
You find ONE union carrier that may be profitable and base you viewpoint on that???

If these all were management failures then why do companies succeed when these same managers go non union carriers? That pay more and spend more on cap ex for safer equipment and facilities???

Looks to me that the union is the problem......
 
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