FedEx Freight | I need help from the seasoned DOT haz mat regulations experts....

[WornOut]

Can anyone help me with the following scenario, maybe I can beat these two tickets........
I got two tickets from the DOT today..... I had a 2 Lb box of inhalation haz zone B that was classified as (primary) corrosive, secondary 6.1 Poison Inhalation hazard. I placarded my trailer with Inhalation hazard and took off. I got stopped, the trooper told me that as a table one haz, I needed to placard for the primary, (corrosive) as well as the secondary, (IH), because it was a table one (which doesnt go by the 1001 lb rule) Zone A and B are exempt from the 1001 rule. So, I got two tickets, placarding , and not securing the HM, because the small two pound sample box was not secured, it was just sitting on the floor between two pallets, (imagine that) he made me put it on top of another pallet and put a strap around it, that I had to make fit......straps are hard to put around a box that is no bigger than a toaster......I got screwed.......any help? I guess Ill have to eat it, but it sux, Im looking for a loophole around this , maybe I can tell the judge something different that will make this trooper look like an idiot, according to DOT regs, or am I screwed?

 

[rabidrazorbacks]

I don't deal with Hazmat enough that I could help you. Hopefully one of the drivers, sups, or managers on here can be of help.

 

[dlscontractor]

Can anyone help me with the following scenario, maybe I can beat these two tickets........
I got two tickets from the DOT today..... I had a 2 Lb box of inhalation haz zone B that was classified as (primary) corrosive, secondary 6.1 Poison Inhalation hazard. I placarded my trailer with Inhalation hazard and took off. I got stopped, the trooper told me that as a table one haz, I needed to placard for the primary, (corrosive) as well as the secondary, (IH), because it was a table one (which doesnt go by the 1001 lb rule) Zone A and B are exempt from the 1001 rule. So, I got two tickets, placarding , and not securing the HM, because the small two pound sample box was not secured, it was just sitting on the floor between two pallets, (imagine that) he made me put it on top of another pallet and put a strap around it, that I had to make fit......straps are hard to put around a box that is no bigger than a toaster......I got screwed.......any help? I guess Ill have to eat it, but it sux, Im looking for a loophole around this , maybe I can tell the judge something different that will make this trooper look like an idiot, according to DOT regs, or am I screwed?

He only issued a driver the citations and not the Carrier ???

 

[itsrk]

If you get me un numbers and weights I can tell you the rules. include all haz mat on trlr. I can put it into a program from work that tells you the placards req

 

[Loose Canon]

I don't believe the secondary counts on this one. I've had the same scenario about a month ago, corrosive as secondary to inhalation, I did some chart checking and went down the road with just inhalation hazard. Good luck. By the way, what state and how much was the fine?:BS:

 

[pompano]

Was the trailer sealed? Did you load the freight? Also did you get a hazmat sheet with your dispatch?

 

[rodedawg]

Can anyone help me with the following scenario, maybe I can beat these two tickets........
I got two tickets from the DOT today..... I had a 2 Lb box of inhalation haz zone B that was classified as (primary) corrosive, secondary 6.1 Poison Inhalation hazard. I placarded my trailer with Inhalation hazard and took off. I got stopped, the trooper told me that as a table one haz, I needed to placard for the primary, (corrosive) as well as the secondary, (IH), because it was a table one (which doesnt go by the 1001 lb rule) Zone A and B are exempt from the 1001 rule. So, I got two tickets, placarding , and not securing the HM, because the small two pound sample box was not secured, it was just sitting on the floor between two pallets, (imagine that) he made me put it on top of another pallet and put a strap around it, that I had to make fit......straps are hard to put around a box that is no bigger than a toaster......I got screwed.......any help? I guess Ill have to eat it, but it sux, Im looking for a loophole around this , maybe I can tell the judge something different that will make this trooper look like an idiot, according to DOT regs, or am I screwed?

Are you a linehaul driver? If you are, the trlr should be sealed, therefore you are not responsible for proper loading and securing freight. I don't know how you guys do it over there, but we get a red sheet with our dispatch. It tells how much haz-mat is on the trlr, and the proper placards to be applied to trlr. Our road dispatcher takes care of that. If your P&D, our city dispatcher does'nt do any of that. Our P&D drivers usually ask our road dispatcher for proper placards if they don't know. Hope this helps

 

[imported_Rambler34]

The tropper was right.

I just found it on page 26 of the FedEx Freight Hazardous-Materials Checklist and Tables book. There should be one in your dispatch.

"A Table 2 HM, which is poisinous by inhalation, must be placarded for any amount. If the primary hazard is not a poison, placard the primary hazard and the subsidary hazard."

Look at rule 10 on page 26.

 

[vorgon]

Rambler is correct....

 

[CHAVEZ007]

Just to second or third Rambler ANY inhalation hazmat MUST be placarded for ANY quantity primary or secondary!

 

[11th hour]

i think you should have had inhalation placards and dangerous placards ?

 

[Franklin]

I'm curious. If you don't mind, how much were the tickets? I'm surprised they didn't ticket the company and the person who loaded it also.

If you're line, just turn the tickets in and they "should" pay them for you and maybe you can fight it in court to get them off your record.

If you're a city driver, you are most likely SOL.

They way they secure small boxes of HM here is to tie a standing pallet to the wall, then tie the freight to the boards of the pallet. I've also heard that you can shove the box into the shrink wrap of a pallet tied to the wall and that will do the trick.

Sorry this happened. Cash cow for the government.

 

[WornOut]

Thanks

Thanks for the help guys, yea, Im a city driver, and Im afraid Im screwed....... They got me good......Im in Texas and I dont know the fine yet, but I spoke to a Roadway driver who said it would be $500 a side for the placarding, (2000), and $800 for the securement issue. Thats a months salary for me..........I did some checking in the regs and they got me good.....all that for a 2 lb box about the size of a cereal box......I guess I learned my lesson, after 25 years without any tickets at all, I thought I knew my stuff, but apparently not.
When I delivered that box to the consignee, I wanted to shove it down their throat!!!!

 

[rodedawg]

Thanks for the help guys, yea, Im a city driver, and Im afraid Im screwed....... They got me good......Im in Texas and I dont know the fine yet, but I spoke to a Roadway driver who said it would be $500 a side for the placarding, (2000), and $800 for the securement issue. Thats a months salary for me..........I did some checking in the regs and they got me good.....all that for a 2 lb box about the size of a cereal box......I guess I learned my lesson, after 25 years without any tickets at all, I thought I knew my stuff, but apparently not.
When I delivered that box to the consignee, I wanted to shove it down their throat!!!!

I would call the circuit clerks office and ask them about it, or talk with the states attorney to see if they will reduce the tickets. If they won't do anything, I would hire a lawyer.

Don't count on our wonderful co. for help. You're already guilty.

 

[Overton]

Unfortunatly

Thanks for the help guys, yea, Im a city driver, and Im afraid Im screwed....... They got me good......Im in Texas and I dont know the fine yet, but I spoke to a Roadway driver who said it would be $500 a side for the placarding, (2000), and $800 for the securement issue. Thats a months salary for me..........I did some checking in the regs and they got me good.....all that for a 2 lb box about the size of a cereal box......I guess I learned my lesson, after 25 years without any tickets at all, I thought I knew my stuff, but apparently not.
When I delivered that box to the consignee, I wanted to shove it down their throat!!!!

It's a *****. City or road, it's your responsibility b4 u leave the yard(pretrip) If u were a ROAD DRIVER getting a sealed trailer that would be on them. But in the P&D world everything is your fault. Been there, done that.

 

[R&L_PHI]

I believe no placard is 2500.00 dollars a placard per side, sounds like a 20,000.00 fine.don't mess with federal regulations. hope all the coma's and periods were in the descriptions on your bills too. We have to call in all haz-mats we pick up and correct all mistakes before we leave shipper's property.

 

[Franklin]

!

Thanks for the help guys, yea, Im a city driver, and Im afraid Im screwed....... They got me good......Im in Texas and I dont know the fine yet, but I spoke to a Roadway driver who said it would be $500 a side for the placarding, (2000), and $800 for the securement issue. Thats a months salary for me..........I did some checking in the regs and they got me good.....all that for a 2 lb box about the size of a cereal box......I guess I learned my lesson, after 25 years without any tickets at all, I thought I knew my stuff, but apparently not.
When I delivered that box to the consignee, I wanted to shove it down their throat!!!!

You might still go to court and tell them that you could see no way to secure that small a box and that you hadn't been trained on how to.

The placarding thing would be a bit more tricky. But just showing up and trying to explain yourself might get the fine reduced. You might say that you believed that your placarding was correct because you rarely handle this type of HM.

Who knows? Might be worth a shot. Maybe there's something wrong with the ticket? Date? Equipment numbers? Spelling? Anything?

 

[WornOut]

You might still go to court and tell them that you could see no way to secure that small a box and that you hadn't been trained on how to.

The placarding thing would be a bit more tricky. But just showing up and trying to explain yourself might get the fine reduced. You might say that you believed that your placarding was correct because you rarely handle this type of HM.

Who knows? Might be worth a shot. Maybe there's something wrong with the ticket? Date? Equipment numbers? Spelling? Anything?

2 new things I discovered:
on the citation, the officer put the wrong shipping document number on the ticket, it was a pro for a shipment going to a satelite dealer of wire, thats one....

also, per regulation 172.504 (f) is stated as follows:

(f) Additional placarding exceptions. (1) When more than one division placard is required for Class 1 materials on a transport vehicle, rail car, freight container or unit load device, only the placard representing the lowest division number must be displayed.
This would mean, to me, that with my table 1 material, that was listed as corrosive (8) and Inhalation hazard (6.1) that I could use the lowest division (6.1) only........which is what I had.

 

[wonderring99]

You actually found a trooper that knew his haz mat .. he has got you dead to rights on your placarding. There are certain UN numbers and chemicals that require 2 placards ie your 8(6.1) .. UN1810 is one of them phosphorus oxychloride will be the proper material name listed in the body of the bill ... if you look that up in your chart in the red haz mat book that should be in your dispatch office or at a shipper it will tell you in the column all the way to the right that you need to placard corrosive and PIH 6 at any amount ... another one is
4.2(4.3) ORGANOMETALLIC SUBSTANCE, LIQUID, PYROPHORIC, WATER-. REACTIVE ( trimethylgallium) which also you will need to use the spontaneous combustible and dangerous when wet ... ok sorry about that .. I handle ALOT of haz mat at the con way barn I work at ... some of this i have memorized

2 new things I discovered:
on the citation, the officer put the wrong shipping document number on the ticket, it was a pro for a shipment going to a satelite dealer of wire, thats one....

also, per regulation 172.504 (f) is stated as follows:

(f) Additional placarding exceptions. (1) When more than one division placard is required for Class 1 materials on a transport vehicle, rail car, freight container or unit load device, only the placard representing the lowest division number must be displayed.
This would mean, to me, that with my table 1 material, that was listed as corrosive (8) and Inhalation hazard (6.1) that I could use the lowest division (6.1) only........which is what I had.

The placarding exceptions do not apply for what you were hauling ... you have a chance with getting your citation thrown out with the paper work being incorrect by the trooper ... I wish you luck but that is really your only out with the paperwork done by the trooper is messed up.

 

[WornOut]

The placarding exceptions do not apply for what you were hauling ... you have a chance with getting your citation thrown out with the paper work being incorrect by the trooper ... I wish you luck but that is really your only out with the paperwork done by the trooper is messed up.

Why doesnt the exception apply?