ABF | Is the flag backwards on our uniforms?

[Boilerpeddle]

So what do you guys think?

Title 4 of the us code section 7 item i found here https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/5 states:(i) When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag’s own right, that is, to the observer’s left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street.
Now this is the closest reference I can find for civilian display. The us army has a set of regulations that apparently provide for other display options but we are not performing military duty when we are wearing our company uniforms. The Boy Scouts, perhaps one of the most patriotic of civilian organizations, display the flag on the right shoulder with the union on the observers left, the flags own right. Seen here in another article about this subject http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/20...the-american-flag-backward-on-scout-uniforms/.
Although they seem to say that it is correct either way.
I know that in the eighties the USAF had been painting the flag on the tail of aircraft with the field facing forward. It was determined that since this was not an actual flag but a representation it would properly be displayed with the field on the top left and all the aircraft were to have the flag changed when they were next repainted.
EDIT: after reviewing some photos on google image search it is apparent that the USAF has changed the policy again in the time since I was enlisted. Not that this changes my opinion any as this is a military organization.


My opinion?
I think it is backwards. But furthermore I don't think it should be on there in the first place. The clothes that I wear are not the proper place for a representation of the flag.

 

[Stimpy]

I was always under the understanding that the flag could be worn on either side of the shirt as long as the stars were towards the front of the person and the stripes on towards the backside....I could be wrong I'm just a truck driver.... also in the SAL of the American Legion.

 

[Boilerpeddle]

I was always under the understanding that the flag could be worn on either side of the shirt as long as the stars were towards the front of the person and the stripes on towards the backside....I could be wrong I'm just a truck driver.... also in the SAL of the American Legion.

Is "SAL" some sort of rules or guide? If so I would certainly take the word of the American Legion.

 

[Deleted member 5115]

While the flag look backwards and awkward the way it appears on our sleeves I believe it is correct. It appears that considerable thought was given to its orientation. The field of stars on the flag are always against the pole. Regardless of whether you consider the arm or the body of the person to be the pole the field of stars does rest against the pole on our uniforms. Now I am not saying that the uniform shorts don't suck, they do. They are the most uncomfortable shirts I have ever worn.

 

[Stimpy]

Is "SAL" some sort of rules or guide? If so I would certainly take the word of the American Legion.

no I'm just a past commander for the Sons of the American Legion....SAL.

kind of like a woman's axillary of the American Legion.

my grandfather fought in the wars so that qualifies me to be a member of the Sons of the American Legion.

like I described above. .. that's what I heard at one time... could be true could be false... I don't really know ... I just threw my two cents in there

 

[canaryinthemine]

Someone asked this question on InfoRoundtable, ...the company propaganda source,....and their answer was that the Flag must appear as it's flying, with the star field attatched to the "pole" and, as the employee is moving forward, the Flag is "flying" on his arm.......I do agree with you, though , Brother Boilerpeddle, that........."casual"....patriotism,....in the cause of commercial interests,...is not proper Flag respect. When you plaster God and the Flag all over your vehicles and employees, you're trying to create the illusion of a good, moral organization,..........which would be at odds with an organization that sees fit to lie and deceive their employees during contract talks to gain an economic advantage. On another note, however,.....I am proud to be a Teamster,....(...NOT proud of our so-called IBT ....."leadership",...as it were...)....and as it is a First Amendment right to express your opinion through Union membership, I have some Teamster static sticker emblems stuck on my truck. I had a terminal manager, years ago, take..."offense"...to the static stickers, and wanted me to remove them. I told him when ABF removes the American Flag from their equipment, then I would ....."consider"....peeling off my evidence of Union representation,......something that had already been decided by the Supreme Court as allowable in the workplace........He "dropped"...the subject.....

 

[bad slavin]

While the flag look backwards and awkward the way it appears on our sleeves I believe it is correct. It appears that considerable thought was given to its orientation. The field of stars on the flag are always against the pole. Regardless of whether you consider the arm or the body of the person to be the pole the field of stars does rest against the pole on our uniforms. Now I am not saying that the uniform shorts don't suck, they do. They are the most uncomfortable shirts I have ever worn.

We have not got our new uniforms yet. I guess that i will muster up the "skill and the will' to itch and scratch and feel uncomfortable thru out the day (yeah , i know, iam out there representing the company). Low morale, no new accounts, constant equipment breakdowns, pda's that do not work....guess i'll put on my "the skill and the will" hat and go out and smile !

 

[vongrimmenstein]

We have not got our new uniforms yet. I guess that i will muster up the "skill and the will' to itch and scratch and feel uncomfortable thru out the day (yeah , i know, iam out there representing the company). Low morale, no new accounts, constant equipment breakdowns, pda's that do not work....guess i'll put on my "the skill and the will" hat and go out and smile !

Are hats a mandatory uniform item that has to be worn. Or is it optional? von.

 

[nightowl]

http://www.usflag.org/flagpatch.html

 

[canaryinthemine]

Are hats a mandatory uniform item that has to be worn. Or is it optional? von.

I don't think it's mandatory to wear the hat all the time, but I think they're saying that if you do wear a hat, it must be the one they are issuing you. As you know, I still have s problem with my employer changing the terms of my employment in the middle of a contract, and not following contractual guidelines. Since they see fit to alter the contract however they wish, and claim compliance, ......how about if I alter the new hat and add a spiffy new beanie propeller on top of it?...........I think we all ought to do it. .....Maybe the new shirt is less itchy if it's worn inside out.......You could ....."alter"......your shirt, similar to how they..... "alter".... …the contract,..... And yet,..you would be in compliance. The only embarrassing thing is that the " Made In Honduras " tag would be visible,.....and upper management would have to figure out how to "alter" that with a magic marker so that only the u and the s are showing in the word " Honduras "..........Then, once again,..they would be in ......" compliance "......with the contract requirement that uniforms must be Made in the US..........Ain't this " altering "game fun?

 

[AkitaDog]

I don't think it's mandatory to wear the hat all the time, but I think they're saying that if you do wear a hat, it must be the one they are issuing you. As you know, I still have s problem with my employer changing the terms of my employment in the middle of a contract, and not following contractual guidelines. Since they see fit to alter the contract however they wish, and claim compliance, ......how about if I alter the new hat and add a spiffy new beanie propeller on top of it?...........I think we all ought to do it. .....Maybe the new shirt is less itchy if it's worn inside out.......You could ....."alter"......your shirt, similar to how they..... "alter".... …the contract,..... And yet,..you would be in compliance. The only embarrassing thing is that the " Made In Honduras " tag would be visible,.....and upper management would have to figure out how to "alter" that with a magic marker so that only the u and the s are showing in the word " Honduras "..........Then, once again,..they would be in ......" compliance "......with the contract requirement that uniforms must be Made in the US..........Ain't this " altering "game fun?

I sometimes ware a hat if it's raining,and then it's my Harley Davidson ball cap when I do! Orange and Black kinda of clashes with the uniform colors but who cares!

 

[Deleted member 5115]

I sometimes ware a hat if it's raining,and then it's my Harley Davidson ball cap when I do! Orange and Black kinda of clashes with the uniform colors but who cares!

I didn't think UE's got uniforms.

 

[Big Daddy]

That's funny about the UE 's not getting uniforms. I run UE and was told I could not get them. Then I see the UE driver from Birmingham with a uniform and he tells me that he is told he has to wear it, because he might have to deal with the customers. I wish they would get their act together on this.

 

[Boilerpeddle]

http://www.usflag.org/flagpatch.html

Thanks for the link.
Yes those are the MILITARY regulations, they don't apply to civilians but its the reason most people cite when they put the patch on with the field forward.

 

[Boilerpeddle]

I don't think it's mandatory to wear the hat all the time, but I think they're saying that if you do wear a hat, it must be the one they are issuing you. As you know, I still have s problem with my employer changing the terms of my employment in the middle of a contract, and not following contractual guidelines. Since they see fit to alter the contract however they wish, and claim compliance, ......how about if I alter the new hat and add a spiffy new beanie propeller on top of it?...........I think we all ought to do it. .....Maybe the new shirt is less itchy if it's worn inside out.......You could ....."alter"......your shirt, similar to how they..... "alter".... …the contract,..... And yet,..you would be in compliance. The only embarrassing thing is that the " Made In Honduras " tag would be visible,.....and upper management would have to figure out how to "alter" that with a magic marker so that only the u and the s are showing in the word " Honduras "..........Then, once again,..they would be in ......" compliance "......with the contract requirement that uniforms must be Made in the US..........Ain't this " altering "game fun?

I like the alteration concept.
As far as hats go, the TM has a bunch in his office but no one official has said anything to me. Once last week a worker said "hey he is giving out hats in there go get you a couple, but you have to sign for them". No thanks I don't want to have to sign for a hat. What if I lose it I have to pay for it?

 

[vongrimmenstein]

I sometimes ware a hat if it's raining,and then it's my Harley Davidson ball cap when I do! Orange and Black kinda of clashes with the uniform colors but who cares!

I am not much of a hat person. But, when I do where a hat it is a Tilley Hat. 100% cotton, with a 3.5 inch brim with snaps to look like I am from down under or the brim extended for that hillbilly look. Usually I use the hillbilly look to keep as much sun or rain off my head, except for my GQ Photo Shoot. I have ball caps but just don't wear them.

 

[canaryinthemine]

That's funny about the UE 's not getting uniforms. I run UE and was told I could not get them. Then I see the UE driver from Birmingham with a uniform and he tells me that he is told he has to wear it, because he might have to deal with the customers. I wish they would get their act together on this.

We just had a grievance hearing, and it was determined that since UE bids are off the city board, and there's a chance that you could be bumped off, or forced on , or even bid to a UE run , you should have uniforms available to reflect your potential to interact with customers. UE drivers, like road drivers can stop at an en route customer ( with all applicable contract stipulations). Our UE driver was offered uniforms, but turned them down.........for now.....

 

[canaryinthemine]

I am not much of a hat person. But, when I do where a hat it is a Tilley Hat. 100% cotton, with a 3.5 inch brim with snaps to look like I am from down under or the brim extended for that hillbilly look. Usually I use the hillbilly look to keep as much sun or rain off my head, except for my GQ Photo Shoot. I have ball caps but just don't wear them.

I am an old, old man, and I still have a full head of hair. Granted,.....it's mostly silver and gray,.....and a little thin in a few odd spots,....but I like to have what remains of my crowning glory waving unfettered in the breeze.......Like a decrepit Samson, I refuse to hide my shorn locks under a mere hat,....preferring to have the general public gaze in unadorned awe at my sartorial excellence.......I'll have to check into one of those Tilley items........sounds like just the thing,....set at a jaunty angle on one of the odd bumps on my cranium........to get a photo shoot of my own......GQ, you say? What issue can we look forward to?

 

[Stimpy]

I am an old, old man, and I still have a full head of hair. Granted,.....it's mostly silver and gray,.....and a little thin in a few odd spots,....but I like to have what remains of my crowning glory waving unfettered in the breeze.......Like a decrepit Samson, I refuse to hide my shorn locks under a mere hat,....preferring to have the general public gaze in unadorned awe at my sartorial excellence.......I'll have to check into one of those Tilley items........sounds like just the thing,....set at a jaunty angle on one of the odd bumps on my cranium........to get a photo shoot of my own......GQ, you say? What issue can we look forward to?

You used a lot of big words. ....lol...now I'm feeling real stupid. ...

 

[bad slavin]

That's funny about the UE 's not getting uniforms. I run UE and was told I could not get them. Then I see the UE driver from Birmingham with a uniform and he tells me that he is told he has to wear it, because he might have to deal with the customers. I wish they would get their act together on this.

That's funny !! i ran ue from 184 to 408 .I would have loved to see a customer on the dock at 2am in 5 degree weather with the snow blowing around the dock ! Those people have a real work schedule and are sound asleep in the middle of the night ! No uniforms needed on the ue for sure !!