Real Teamster
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Tri, the problem is WHAT was in those employment contracts.
Yellow | Sarah Amico withdraws bid to restart Yellow
- Thread starter Real Teamster
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Exactly! Defined benefit pensions, no premium, no deductible healthcare, outdated work rules and classification systems, the employment contracts were the biggest problem.
Sorry, I thought you were discussing the Teamster labor agreements. Never mind.
Real Teamster
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That's funny Blade, but not that funny. It's true, our healthcare was fabulous and I miss it. We're on my wife's now, and the rates (our out-of-paycheck cost) are going up by 46% on July 1st. That's a HUGE increase! As for the rest, they were manageable by the company financial [wannabe] gurus. And you're tight; I was speaking about the OUTRAGEOUS "perks" given the senior executives.
The work rules weren't all that outdated, and for the most part they functioned well. I don't see the big issue on that front. There was no reason to have a road driver mopping the office floor or entering billing data. No reason to have an office clerk attempting to then make the run from Phoenix to Flagstaff and back.
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No, but there is also no reason to pay wait time to a driver and also pay a yard guy to drop and hook or string a set. Eliminating the yard guy eliminates a whole set of benefit costs.
Real Teamster
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I agree, but I also know that much of that was a) avoidable; and b) addressed in the 2019 contract. Why it wasn't addressed prior to that I don't know. As of 2019, sleeper teams could and did drop and hook their own sets. I did hear that at some terminals, the yard team would "drag their feet" incessantly if they knew a driver was waiting. That is a problem that management can, should, but apparently didn't address and correct. Granted, shame on the yard team for not operating efficiently.
I was a yard guy for at least part of the week for several years. We had single-man runs that turned and went back home at our terminal. Depending on whether it was their first dispatch on this tour of duty, they might be "off the clock" for up to 90 minutes while we got them turned. Sleepers the same. We knew (from dispatch) whether the team was "first leg" or not. If they were not first leg, they were on the clock from the time they handed the paperwork to dispatch until dispatch handed them the new paperwork. We prided ourselves on having them turned within 15 minutes. Often, they lingered in the shower only to find out that their new paperwork had been time-stamped while they were literally washing their hair. That sure chapped them!
If they were first leg, we still didn't "lolli-gag", but they would take a back seat to someone who was on the clock. When we hooked sets, we would inspect to assure that it was road-ready. Didn't have very many take it to the shop, and they frequently got rebuffed if they did. We would occasionally miss something legitimate, but not very often.
Puff Driver
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Have you read an RPF/RFI Packet from a major shipper or a quality 3PL?How could anyone know more than you???
They are pretty detailing regarding operations, EDI/API/214's/220's etc...
Often they demand a listing of facilities, service matrix, OS&D procedures. drop trailer agreements/OD agreement, SOW, DQ, CSA Scores, Insurance Certificate, requirements and often a bunch more information including references, Tariff, FAK agreements, claims history, financial data and leadership info.
Without these a bid is not accepted or the carrier is disqualified.
Not sure how to obtain business or a commitment without this information.
From what I have been told there was nothing established other than discussions about opening up a new LTL carrier.
And yet ABF, as well as T Force, somehow are able to meet the working conditions provided under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement they agreed to. And be profitable. It seems to be much more of a problem of incompetent management.
I'll anxiously wait, while you formulate an absurd reply.
Puff Driver
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I think you are partially correct.And yet ABF, as well as T Force, somehow are able to meet the working conditions provided under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement they agreed to. And be profitable. It seems to be much more of a problem of incompetent management.
I'll anxiously wait, while you formulate an absurd reply.
Reality is they are the last men standing... The end has not been written yet, my guess is in a few years the union LTL industry will be very different.
Real Teamster
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I'm hoping that the LTL environment will be very different in a few years as well. I hope that the employees of the Goliaths of the day (FedEx, XPO, ODFL) recognized that they're getting the "short end of the stick" from their equivalent of the glass house, and that they rise up and do something to change that. Will that be easy? Not at all. Is it doable? Without a doubt.
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Puff Driver
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Time will tell.
My guess is the barriers to get into the LTL business will remain too challenging. Thus the larger carriers will get larger and we will continue to see no new carrier enter the LTL business.
That said, the unionized sector is comprised of 2 carriers neither are top of the line carriers. Thus my guess is a consolidation of those two at some point.
The glass house will always exist, baseball players will get paid $700 MILLION to play a game. actors will get paid a total of over $1 billion to make movies, Elected Officials earning $170,000 will be worth $200 MILLION by retirement and CEO's will be well compensated. In places where 'universal income' is common the elites live extremely well off of the backs of workers while food lines exist.
The workers at the carriers you mentioned are compensated well, as well as the unionized sector along with a much better life expectancy for their employer.
Sorry to say, more than half the dockman I worked with did not bust their tail, they barely did any hard work during their whole shift. Management is to blame for the bankruptcy. They let them get away with a terrible effort. You cant turn a profit with a bunch of lazy bumbs. I'm a retired dockman. When I first started in the 90's for Roadway, if you didn't do your share, you were out the door. I'm glad I got out before the bankruptcy, I only feel sorry for the hard working dockman and drivers. Hard work is supposed to pay off, but unfortunately Management dropped the ball.
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As I posted before, watch as the OR for those companies continues to rise. It's amazing how you can focus on the two who have survived and ignore the thousands of union companies that failed. Do you honestly believe that with the current work rules in place, that ABF is as efficiently operated as the nonunion companies that have more labor flexibility? You can blame management but how do you actively manage a labor force with ancient work rules and classifications in place. No one is asking drivers to work for free. The linehaul driver doing a drop and hook is paid for his time. Transportation is a competitive service industry. Right sizing the workforce means eliminating redundancies to improve productivity and remain viable.And yet ABF, as well as T Force, somehow are able to meet the working conditions provided under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement they agreed to. And be profitable. It seems to be much more of a problem of incompetent management.
I'll anxiously wait, while you formulate an absurd reply.
steercrazee
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A former union guy from T Force told me he would get something said to him if he went above and beyond. He was a driver but they cut his runs so much he started working the dock some. Management old it so he could get a pay check. Union guys told him he couldn't do it. He said i need to feed my family too, and they said im sorry but a driver can't work the dock. He needed up having to quit them so he could pay his bills. In his case management was trying to help him. You are correct though management bears the responsibility to manage with or without union. Ive seen union go on strike and the company run with the non union workers. How it worked out i don't know but i delivered to them for a good while with the picketers booing me when i delivered to them. I had nothing to do with their issues i just delivered what i was told from the company i worked for. There was animosity of the union and non union workers there though. I just minded my business.
Real Teamster
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Well Jacks, I'm sorry to hear that. If you were working the dock, you could see what everyone else was(n't) doing. I was a city driver for the last 20-some years, worked the dock some of the time before that. My barn was in a location where, unlike St. Louis and some other places, there was a combined city/yard/dock board. When I was on the street, I had no idea really what everybody else was doing. I didn't have the opportunity or the time to stop and watch them. Management's job is to monitor and "manage" that sort of thing. Some of them couldn't do that very well. I had one years ago tell me that I was the "bottom of productivity". Turned out the dumb**s didn't know how to read his own data. He didn't last long, thank goodness!
It does indeed take solid effort on everybody's part to make the place thrive.
If lazy bums were shown the door at Roadway for being lazy bums that's on the BA and shop steward for not fighting hard enough for their members. Where in the contract does it define objectively verifiable metrics for job performance? You can blame management all you want but without the ability to fire lazy bums for being lazy bums it's not managements' fault.
I can tell you after spending hundreds of hours at numerous carrier terminals over my career, CF and Yellow were in a league of their own when it came to slugs. UPS and ABF had a few, but very, very few were as blatantly obvious. A different culture for certain.
So very true.
Not sure what area he was from, In the Carolinas, laid-off line drivers were offered city or dock work by seniority date.
City or dock workers could run an extra line run on off days.
PIE used mostly firemen or policemen until we had a rule that any union carrier with laid-off people was offered work before anyone else.
steercrazee
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As it should be. He was at one of the terminals in Tn
Real Teamster
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I knew of a line driver who lost his medical. He hoped to get it back some day, but in the meantime, they let him work as a casual on the dock. He was glad to do it, and the terminal manager was glad to let him. Paid the bills!