Yellow | WARN Act Payment

[TheCommish]

Now that there is clearly enough money to pay off all the debt, do you think they will pay the ~$15k per employee as per the WARN Act? Yellow clearly thinks they are not liable. It will probably settle?

"Yellow had already taken preemptive moves to qualify the company for exceptions to the WARN Act. A letter from the company to employees on July 30 cited that the closure was a result of “unforeseeable business circumstances,” “faltering company,” and “liquidating fiduciary,” thus exempting itself from the WARN Act." - https://prospect.org/economy/2023-08-09-yellow-scapegoats-teamsters-apollo-led-bankruptcy/

 

[dokman]

Now that there is clearly enough money to pay off all the debt, do you think they will pay the ~$15k per employee as per the WARN Act? Yellow clearly thinks they are not liable. It will probably settle?

"Yellow had already taken preemptive moves to qualify the company for exceptions to the WARN Act. A letter from the company to employees on July 30 cited that the closure was a result of “unforeseeable business circumstances,” “faltering company,” and “liquidating fiduciary,” thus exempting itself from the WARN Act." - https://prospect.org/economy/2023-08-09-yellow-scapegoats-teamsters-apollo-led-bankruptcy/

Their actions of paying bonuses to executives in early June to stay and help close down the company was an indication that they should have paid the warn act. Correct me if I am wrong, didn’t a judge say they violated the Warn Act and was ordered to pay it?

 

[TheCommish]

I didn't see a judge say that but that definitely could have happened, I just am not aware of a judge making any sort of comment on it yet

 

[EX396]

Money to do so or not, I don't see them in violation of the act to begin with. We'll see how the courts rule.

Not sure what the retention bonuses have to do with the WARN Act.

 

[TC1]

I could see it happening.

 

[dokman]

Money to do so or not, I don't see them in violation of the act to begin with. We'll see how the courts rule.

Not sure what the retention bonuses have to do with the WARN Act.

Company knew they were closing down and did not notify employees. How simple is that. They asked executives to stay on and help close down. Then blame everyone else for their failures.

 

[EX396]

Company knew they were closing down and did not notify employees. How simple is that. They asked executives to stay on and help close down. Then blame everyone else for their failures.

They didn't know they were closing down 60 days before they filed. They were scrambling trying to save it until the last moments.
Once they knew that their closure was imminent they could not provide 60 days notice and continue to operate. They wouldn't have made it another 3 weeks.

Enticing key folks to stay on board during the winding down of operations and the liquidation of assets arguably will be the difference maker. Without them maybe unsecured creditors get 10cents on the dollar. With them you may just get that dollar.

 

[Real Teamster]

They didn't know they were closing down 60 days before they filed. They were scrambling trying to save it until the last moments.
Once they knew that their closure was imminent they could not provide 60 days notice and continue to operate. They wouldn't have made it another 3 weeks.

Enticing key folks to stay on board during the winding down of operations and the liquidation of assets arguably will be the difference maker. Without them maybe unsecured creditors get 10cents on the dollar. With them you may just get that dollar.

Gee Ex, they didn't entice any of us to "stay on board" to get the freight cleaned out of the system. When they locked the gate there were 30,000+ shipments still in the system. What about that?? On top of that, I don't believe that sixty days before they filed, they hadn't made the decision to shut down. I think the decision was made shortly before that 60-day mark.

 

[grimreaper]

They didn't know they were closing down 60 days before they filed. They were scrambling trying to save it until the last moments.
Once they knew that their closure was imminent they could not provide 60 days notice and continue to operate. They wouldn't have made it another 3 weeks.

Enticing key folks to stay on board during the winding down of operations and the liquidation of assets arguably will be the difference maker. Without them maybe unsecured creditors get 10cents on the dollar. With them you may just get that dollar.

they knew it ... it will be proven

 

[Steward of the Rock]

Gee Ex, they didn't entice any of us to "stay on board" to get the freight cleaned out of the system. When they locked the gate there were 30,000+ shipments still in the system. What about that?? On top of that, I don't believe that sixty days before they filed, they hadn't made the decision to shut down. I think the decision was made shortly before that 60-day mark.

But if they did know they were closing 60-days before they actually did, wouldn’t that debunk the “Tombstone Picture” being the cause of the closure which was posted on June 24th?
If they did indeed know 60-days ahead of time, that would put the date of knowing back into late May or early June. Well before the Tombstone picture!!!

 

[rocketmancve]

This company and management screwed with us every way possible while we were actively employed there and I'm sure they will find every way possible to screw me out of 5 weeks of vacation time I am still owed. I beat myself up every day for not leaving YRC years ago.

 

[EX396]

Gee Ex, they didn't entice any of us to "stay on board" to get the freight cleaned out of the system. When they locked the gate there were 30,000+ shipments still in the system. What about that?? On top of that, I don't believe that sixty days before they filed, they hadn't made the decision to shut down. I think the decision was made shortly before that 60-day mark

The decision to shut down was plan C or D. Not A or B. Those plans could have been in place well before the 60 day mark and that would be irrelevant. What's relevant is when that decision was made, and I'm willing to bet that switch was flipped less than a week before you all quit picking up freight.

 

[EX396]

they knew it ... it will be proven

Time will tell. I am betting not.

 

[EX396]

But if they did know they were closing 60-days before they actually did, wouldn’t that debunk the “Tombstone Picture” being the cause of the closure which was posted on June 24th?
If they did indeed know 60-days ahead of time, that would put the date of knowing back into late May or early June. Well before the Tombstone picture!!!

They knew more than 60 days prior that there was a cash flow problem and that the current path was unsustainable. What they didn't know 60 days out was how long they were going to make it. Too many "undetermined" in that equation. The tombstone just expedited the process.

Without that tombstone you may have just received a 60 day WARN Act notice, but I'm not confident it made that much difference. Maybe it went from 8 weeks out to 3 weeks out...

A forensic accounting could tell you what the forecast looked like at current business trends, with pre-tombstone and post-tombstone freight volumes.

 

[EX396]

This company and management screwed with us every way possible while we were actively employed there and I'm sure they will find every way possible to screw me out of 5 weeks of vacation time I am still owed. I beat myself up every day for not leaving YRC years ago.

If you are still owed 5 weeks, the way the asset sales are going you may just get most or all of that. Really depends on how long this entire process takes because all of the various legal fees accumulate fast!

Don't beat yourself up with woulda, coulda, shoulda. You got decades worth of decent wages and great healthcare coverage out of that ride to the finish.

 

[dokman]

They didn't know they were closing down 60 days before they filed. They were scrambling trying to save it until the last moments.
Once they knew that their closure was imminent they could not provide 60 days notice and continue to operate. They wouldn't have made it another 3 weeks.

Enticing key folks to stay on board during the winding down of operations and the liquidation of assets arguably will be the difference maker. Without them maybe unsecured creditors get 10cents on the dollar. With them you may just get that dollar.

Yellow paid executives $4.6 million in bonuses for bankruptcy wind-down as 30,000 employees became jobless | Fortune

Not according to court documents.
Like I said early June.

 

[TC1]

"We didn't know we were broke." CF tried that crap too and it didn't work for them either.

 

[steercrazee]

This company and management screwed with us every way possible while we were actively employed there and I'm sure they will find every way possible to screw me out of 5 weeks of vacation time I am still owed. I beat myself up every day for not leaving YRC years ago.

You didn't know years ago. There was still some hope that just maybe they would figure out a way to run the company right. Not to mention if you have 5 weeks vacation then you had time invested in the company. Yellow was the biggest trucking company and who would have thought that it went out the way it did. Most companies scale back at first to try and make it work until they can't. If i was in your shoes i would have did the same thing. Don't beat yourself up for making a decision that most would make. When you got time blood sweat and tears in a place it's hard to just up and leave when there could be chance everything works out. You made the best decision with the information you had at the time. It's not your fought.

 

[ABF381]

They knew more than 60 days prior that there was a cash flow problem and that the current path was unsustainable. What they didn't know 60 days out was how long they were going to make it. Too many "undetermined" in that equation. The tombstone just expedited the process.

Without that tombstone you may have just received a 60 day WARN Act notice, but I'm not confident it made that much difference. Maybe it went from 8 weeks out to 3 weeks out...

A forensic accounting could tell you what the forecast looked like at current business trends, with pre-tombstone and post-tombstone freight volumes.

I posted this on another thread, but the tombstone theory really doesn't hold up....

O'Brien's tweet was June 24th..... A month later the strike threat happened due to Yellow not making required Health and Welfare payments.....so freight volumes fell then, not after the tombstone tweet like some of you guys like to mistakenly say...here is a quote, I will post the link...
After the strike threat, Yellow's freight volumes fell 80% within the span of a week, according to Jack Atkins, a managing director at the financial services firm Stephens who researches the transportation sector.
At the same time, he said, Yellow's cries that it was running out of cash during union negotiation attempts scared off customers.

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/30/1190960948/yellow-trucking-shutdown-explained

 

[Rounding3rd]

Yellow started their plan to shut down January or 2022,