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What happened to red arrow after ABF buyout?

Ted Decker trk

When things are FUBAR, FIDO!
I am new to TB. Currently employed at one of the national LTL's. After the ABF buyout/merger I lost my job with CFCC as a dockworker at one of the big breakbulks. I was pretty young when all that happened and I ended up moving on in the trucking industry. Some of these threads have brought up old memories. I am aware of how GI/Estes morphed and grew after the buyout and continued to see CFCC equipment in ABF disguise for a long time. I am curious though what happened to Red Arrow. Never saw or heard from them again despite running over the road for ten years in including the Texas and Oklahoma area. Can anybody fill me in on the fate of them ? Did they get absorbed like CFCC equipment and people or did they stay on there own like GI? I know Estes was its own separate company but they did interline a lot for us in the mid south just like Albany did in upstate Michigan.
 

Ted Decker trk

When things are FUBAR, FIDO!
I am new to TB. Currently employed at one of the national LTL's. After the ABF buyout/merger I lost my job with CFCC as a dockworker at one of the big breakbulks. I was pretty young when all that happened and I ended up moving on in the trucking industry. Some of these threads have brought up old memories. I am aware of how GI/Estes morphed and grew after the buyout and continued to see CFCC equipment in ABF disguise for a long time. I am curious though what happened to Red Arrow. Never saw or heard from them again despite running over the road for ten years in including the Texas and Oklahoma area. Can anybody fill me in on the fate of them ? Did they get absorbed like CFCC equipment and people or did they stay on there own like GI? I know Estes was its own separate company but they did interline a lot for us in the mid south just like Albany did in upstate Michigan.
Alvan, not Albany. Stupid auto spell !
 

00mustang

NO LTL OR CAR HAUL 4 ME I'M RETIRED
Alvan, not Albany. Stupid auto spell !
What terminal did you work out of?? Red arrow was startting to shut down around 88-89 mostly doing work with railroad and I think they finally closed. Also I guess ABF didn't want Cardinal Carriers either, that was CFCC NON union truck load out fit.
I worked out of Toledo 1982-1995
 

Ted Decker trk

When things are FUBAR, FIDO!
What terminal did you work out of?? Red arrow was startting to shut down around 88-89 mostly doing work with railroad and I think they finally closed. Also I guess ABF didn't want Cardinal Carriers either, that was CFCC NON union truck load out fit.
I worked out of Toledo 1982-1995
Toledo as well, were you linehaul or city
 

DCM_Doc

Well-Known Member
What terminal did you work out of?? Red arrow was startting to shut down around 88-89 mostly doing work with railroad and I think they finally closed. Also I guess ABF didn't want Cardinal Carriers either, that was CFCC NON union truck load out fit.
I worked out of Toledo 1982-1995

As I remember Red Arrow was operating in mostly states west of the Carolina system. I think some of the employees in Texas dovetailed in with ABF as their seniority let them. Some of the trailers were kept with the ABF brand put on. The tractors were old Internationals which had been Carolina units at one time. They were sold since they were older than ABF normally ran. Some were sent to the Little Rock shop to be sold. I think Red Arrow also had some of the Louisville Fords that Carolina had bought from ABF several years before. They were also sold.
The white Internationals Carolina had were financed by various financial institutions. GE capital was the initial finance group but others also financed a few. The equipment was listed as leased to Carolina by GE capital. ABF bought the tractors after the 3 year lease/purchase agreement expired. The lease was not a bad deal but the contract specified the tractors would be returned after the 3 years in a specified condition. ABF decided to buy out the lease & sell instead of spending untold amounts to put the tractors in the specified condition. Roadway bought several hundred of the Internationals from ABF. Most if not all of the 8200 Internationals had M11 Cummins power. The 9400's had Cummins N14 power. There were several 9400's in the Chicago area that had been bought to pull triples.They had low mileage & were sold which I think was a mistake because they were much better tractors than the 8200 series. But nobody asked me.
 
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00mustang

NO LTL OR CAR HAUL 4 ME I'M RETIRED
As I remember Red Arrow was operating in mostly states west of the Carolina system. I think some of the employees in Texas dovetailed in with ABF as their seniority let them. Some of the trailers were kept with the ABF brand put on. The tractors were old Internationals which had been Carolina units at one time. They were sold since they were older than ABF normally ran. Some were sent to the Little Rock shop to be sold. I think Red Arrow also had some of the Louisville Fords that Carolina had bought from ABF several years before. They were also sold.
The white Internationals Carolina had were financed by various financial institutions. GE capital was the initial finance group but others also financed a few. The equipment was listed as leased to Carolina by GE capital. ABF bought the tractors after the 3 year lease/purchase agreement expired. The lease was not a bad deal but the contract specified the tractors would be returned after the 3 years in a specified condition. ABF decided to buy out the lease & sell instead of spending untold amounts to put the tractors in the specified condition. Roadway bought several hundred of the Internationals from ABF. Most if not all of the 8200 Internationals had M11 Cummins power. The 9400's had Cummins N14 power. There were several 9400's in the Chicago area that had been bought to pull triples.They had low mileage & were sold which I think was a mistake because they were much better tractors than the 8200 series. But nobody asked me.
Yep Doc now that you mention that your correct, The 9400's were bought for triples only .they had 30 of them all put in service in Toledo, Cherryville never saw them they had to come up and check and see the units they bought. Also some of the Louisville's they bought from ABF were refurbed on Toledo also. Mr. Watts and Mr. Sumner had Toledo put them in service since we were in the middle of the triples run plus we had a newer shop that could handle the work, The white IH's were when they started to lease them and was told that CFCC had a lot of stock in GE capital also that's when they started changing the names around and things went down hill after that.
 

DCM_Doc

Well-Known Member
Yep Doc now that you mention that your correct, The 9400's were bought for triples only .they had 30 of them all put in service in Toledo, Cherryville never saw them they had to come up and check and see the units they bought. Also some of the Louisville's they bought from ABF were refurbed on Toledo also. Mr. Watts and Mr. Sumner had Toledo put them in service since we were in the middle of the triples run plus we had a newer shop that could handle the work, The white IH's were when they started to lease them and was told that CFCC had a lot of stock in GE capital also that's when they started changing the names around and things went down hill after that.
The 9400's in Chicago were twin screws. On second thought I think they were also intended for pulling twin 45 foot trailers. I heard they had converter gears for the two 45's but I never saw any. 30 units sounds right for the number of units. A few came to Little Rock & were routed back to Chicago. The 9400 was a much better tractor than the 8200 series. The cabs were riveted & were quieter. I think they weighed more than the 8200's which was one reason they were sold.
 

Ted Decker trk

When things are FUBAR, FIDO!
The 9400's in Chicago were twin screws. On second thought I think they were also intended for pulling twin 45 foot trailers. I heard they had converter gears for the two 45's but I never saw any. 30 units sounds right for the number of units. A few came to Little Rock & were routed back to Chicago. The 9400 was a much better tractor than the 8200 series. The cabs were riveted & were quieter. I think they weighed more than the 8200's which was one reason they were sold.
I think some of those twin screws were brought to handle the intermodal rail service partnered with Burlington northern, white cans with red and blue logos.
 

00mustang

NO LTL OR CAR HAUL 4 ME I'M RETIRED
The 9400's in Chicago were twin screws. On second thought I think they were also intended for pulling twin 45 foot trailers. I heard they had converter gears for the two 45's but I never saw any. 30 units sounds right for the number of units. A few came to Little Rock & were routed back to Chicago. The 9400 was a much better tractor than the 8200 series. The cabs were riveted & were quieter. I think they weighed more than the 8200's which was one reason they were sold.
Can't remember when they took the trp's out of Toledo and put them in Chicago I know the shop guys were upset at loosing that work, all the 9400's we had at that time were single axle's but I heard once they went to Chi they were trying to convert them to twins, don't know if they added a dead axle or were true twin screws. never got close to one after that. Never saw the twin 45's or any gear also. Ran mostly East after the trp's left couldn't hold any bids running west and wasn't going to run extra board but many good years there, Did you guys get any of the Frt liner sleepers or maybe they were gone before that, had both twin screws and a few single axle cab overs
 

DCM_Doc

Well-Known Member
Can't remember when they took the trp's out of Toledo and put them in Chicago I know the shop guys were upset at loosing that work, all the 9400's we had at that time were single axle's but I heard once they went to Chi they were trying to convert them to twins, don't know if they added a dead axle or were true twin screws. never got close to one after that. Never saw the twin 45's or any gear also. Ran mostly East after the trp's left couldn't hold any bids running west and wasn't going to run extra board but many good years there, Did you guys get any of the Frt liner sleepers or maybe they were gone before that, had both twin screws and a few single axle cab overs

These tractors were built as twin screws & were sold that way. They were low mileage tractors & were some of the best freight tractors I ever saw. They drove good & were comfortable. The N14's were higher powered than the other tractors. I was told that was for pulling twin 45's. I wanted to take one on a lowboy run but never had the opportunity. We often got in places where we needed twin screws with the lowboy, that was much easier than chaining up. The Freightliner sleepers came through Little Rock occasionally but were sold soon after the acquisition. They were higher mileage than ABF wanted for sleeper teams.
The Freightliners were replaced with Macks, then those Macks were replaced with the Petes & then they were replaced with Sterling sleepers before the sleeper operation was abandoned. The Mack sleepers were ordered with leaf spring suspensions which was contrary to the contract. The company had to change all of them to air springs. I don't know if those specing the sleepers didn't know the contract or just thought they could get by with it.
 

00mustang

NO LTL OR CAR HAUL 4 ME I'M RETIRED
These tractors were built as twin screws & were sold that way. They were low mileage tractors & were some of the best freight tractors I ever saw. They drove good & were comfortable. The N14's were higher powered than the other tractors. I was told that was for pulling twin 45's. I wanted to take one on a lowboy run but never had the opportunity. We often got in places where we needed twin screws with the lowboy, that was much easier than chaining up. The Freightliner sleepers came through Little Rock occasionally but were sold soon after the acquisition. They were higher mileage than ABF wanted for sleeper teams.
The Freightliners were replaced with Macks, then those Macks were replaced with the Petes & then they were replaced with Sterling sleepers before the sleeper operation was abandoned. The Mack sleepers were ordered with leaf spring suspensions which was contrary to the contract. The company had to change all of them to air springs. I don't know if those specing the sleepers didn't know the contract or just thought they could get by with it.
Thanks for updating this "old mind" . Loved the 9400's when we first got them they had to be rated 400hp min for the operation on the pike, think they came in as 410 hp but the Cummins pumped them to 425 pulled great rode great hated it when they got pulled but that's life.
 

Ted Decker trk

When things are FUBAR, FIDO!
Linehaul no p&d for me
I was strictly dock at this point. I had a CDL as I was in the service and grandfathered in when they brought the CDL on line. Had a fair number of miles in the service pulling tractor trailer but no civilian experience so CFCC wouldn't let me do combo or anything. Toledo was a decent place to work. I was there 1987 till the buyout, a lot of it as a casual. It was big enough that it kept me pretty busy just filling in for guys on vacation.
 

Ted Decker trk

When things are FUBAR, FIDO!
I remember when the white IH's started showing up. One of the operations managers, Bruce Roberts, said any time a truck line starts leasing like that, it is a bad sign. Boy did he call that one!
 

Ted Decker trk

When things are FUBAR, FIDO!
I also seem to recall that CFCC was trying to get the powers that be to let us run the trips out of the yard and right down Reynolds road to the Toll Road cash box. Nothing ever came if it, as far as I know, but I remember the combo guys that shuttled pups up to the pad were forever fighting with special pigtails for lights on the dollies when they had to move one without a trailer on it
 

00mustang

NO LTL OR CAR HAUL 4 ME I'M RETIRED
I was strictly dock at this point. I had a CDL as I was in the service and grandfathered in when they brought the CDL on line. Had a fair number of miles in the service pulling tractor trailer but no civilian experience so CFCC wouldn't let me do combo or anything. Toledo was a decent place to work. I was there 1987 till the buyout, a lot of it as a casual. It was big enough that it kept me pretty busy just filling in for guys on vacation.
So you didn't get to work out of the old terminal on Dura ave. That was a "nice'" place lol, I just found some pictures of when they were building the new one, and Yeah Tol wasn't bad at all bunch of good guys there. I did pull a set of trip's into they yard from the cash box one winter when they didn't have the drop lot plowed, dispatch said bring it in and it was in the middle of the night so not many cops out and they wouldn't get out of the cars anyways cause of the snow .
 

seabreeze

Not Well Known Member, 63 Year Teamster Member
Premium
I wonder if Carolina had the problem we had in Orlando?
We tried to pull twin 45s down the Sunshine Parkway to Miami with 300HP, couldn't maintain the required 50mph.
They bought 15 flatback KWs with 12v71s, don't remember if they were screws or dead axle, never drove but one.
 

00mustang

NO LTL OR CAR HAUL 4 ME I'M RETIRED
I wonder if Carolina had the problem we had in Orlando?
We tried to pull twin 45s down the Sunshine Parkway to Miami with 300HP, couldn't maintain the required 50mph.
They bought 15 flatback KWs with 12v71s, don't remember if they were screws or dead axle, never drove but one.
No we didn't seem to have a problem pulling the trip's never seen or pulled twins 45's but shouldn't have had any problem.I don't why they bumped up the hp on these didn't gain any speed just a nice pull when needed out here in "hilly" midwest lol. When i was with Big R they had R model Macks full 318's twin screws for pulling twin 45's on the NY thruway, only got to drive them 2 times when they came into TOL for repairs
 

seabreeze

Not Well Known Member, 63 Year Teamster Member
Premium
No we didn't seem to have a problem pulling the trip's never seen or pulled twins 45's but shouldn't have had any problem.I don't why they bumped up the hp on these didn't gain any speed just a nice pull when needed out here in "hilly" midwest lol. When i was with Big R they had R model Macks full 318's twin screws for pulling twin 45's on the NY thruway, only got to drive them 2 times when they came into TOL for repairs

Not sure Carolina pulled them on the Parkway, PIE and UPS did, Fla R.R. Utility Comm. made them mantain 50 mph, our 300hp couldn't do the job on the flat land.
 
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